Nirbhay Cruise Missile Development

[Bhadra]

The price for per unit Tomahawk I quoted from the source is 1999 price... ok , now it is clearly 2014...

Secondly that is US price and for India multiply that three times...

All DRDO product like Arjun are more expensive than imported ones...

Moreover , Nirbhay unit price is not the only thing..

What about the price of submarine or ship from where it is launched..

What is the price of the satellite which monitors and guides it..

What is the price of support system required for It.. communications , damage assessment etc..
What is the price of the logistics..
What is the price of Command and control...

Be realistic rather than telling me to learn mathematics...

 

[Bhadra]

Now compare the loss if aircraft is shot down? It would easily be 100 times as expensive as Nirbhay cruise missile.

And fighter has other aspects,availability,numbers and many other issues. Yes War is a function of economics and you need to figure it out.

What is the cost of Mig- 21 ?

And what is the probability of it being hit ?

How many 350 kg munitions it can deliver on the targets and how many times ?

Calculate the cost accordingly...

 

[power_monger]

The price for per unit Tomahawk I quoted from the source is 1999 price... ok , now it is clearly 2014...

Secondly that is US price and for India multiply that three times...

All DRDO product like Arjun are more expensive than imported ones...

Moreover , Nirbhay unit price is not the only thing..

What about the price of submarine or ship from where it is launched..

What is the price of the satellite which monitors and guides it..

What is the price of support system required for It.. communications , damage assessment etc..
What is the price of the logistics..
What is the price of Command and control...

Be realistic rather than telling me to learn mathematics...

I am realistic. It is basic knoweldge that price comes down with numbers. Where was Arjun ever mass produced?
And what is this about Satellite? How many satellites do you require to handle 100 or even 1000 Nirbhay's? Are you saying that we need to launch 1 satellite to handle Nirbhay missiles only?

Even if all the cost associated to Nirbhay missile is done, how much will it cost? we are getting ready to pay 12-15 billion dollar to rafale jet fighter.
We can have huge inventory of Nirbhay literally at 1/6th the cost of those jet fighters.

I do not buy your argument that DRDO products cost more in all cases.

 

[power_monger]

self delete

 

[arnabmit]

The recovery option is an experimental "proof of concept", not a regular feature of Nirbhay.

For a low-cost missile like Nirbhay, the cost of 'recovery, test, refurbish and reuse' would be greater than acquisition of a brand new missile.

There is a specualtion of Nirbhay being able to Engage,hit and return(some kind of recover). If this is possible,then 1500Km range would be handy as Nirbhay can used for Bombing and return to bases,a kind of Unmanned combat vehicle.

if they are able to re-use nirbhay then we will be able to save a lot as seekers and other electronic devices within missiles generally cost around 60% of the missile cost itself.

BTW, there was a statement by DRDO itself on nirbhay's capabilities on hit and return.

 

[arnabmit]

A lower range (500km) smaller variant of Nirbhay is on the cards, which will primarily be used as coastal defence battery. A 2000+km extended range version is also no the cards.

The LFRJ-LRCM of 800+km range is a separate project, nothing to do with Nirbhay, which would be an enlarged version of a missile like Brahmos-Mini (similar warhead, sensors, avionics & electronics but with 250% more RAMJET fuel)

Reducing range may not really save on expense end as hitech stuff such as seekers which cost more will still be re-used. mini-Nirbhay may not be on the cards.I had heard that DRDO is also working on a long range supersonic missile primarily for Navy.

 

[power_monger]

Btw,which seeker is planned for Nirbhay in future?

 

[archie]

I am realistic. It is basic knoweldge that price comes down with numbers. Where was Arjun ever mass produced?
And what is this about Satellite? How many satellites do you require to handle 100 or even 1000 Nirbhay's? Are you saying that we need to launch 1 satellite to handle Nirbhay missiles only?

Even if all the cost associated to Nirbhay missile is done, how much will it cost? we are getting ready to pay 12-15 billion dollar to rafale jet fighter.
We can have huge inventory of Nirbhay literally at 1/6th the cost of those jet fighters.

I do not buy your argument that DRDO products cost more in all cases.

If you are considering overall cost of everything.. then operating a figter jet Entails .. Airports , Pilot training, Support infrastructure , obviously navigation aids, sir traffic controllor .. then its apples to apples.. wven then i belive Nirbhay wins on costs and delivers more stealth , manovarability of launch location and more

 

[Hari Sud]

Where did the Pakistanis get the technology to build Babur cruise missile?. It was flight tested in 2008.

According to another military website, it is very sophisticated missile.

USA 's Tomahawk Vs India's Nirbhay Vs Pakistan's Babur-Three subsonic cruise missile|wiki,differences,facts | idrw.org

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Have the capabilities mentioned in the chart are fully realised ??

Does it have TERCOM ?? Is it capable of terrain masking as yet ?


May be under development ..

IMO probably in development? IRNSS.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Where did the Pakistanis get the technology to build Babur cruise missile?. It was flight tested in 2008.

According to another military website, it is very sophisticated missile.

USA 's Tomahawk Vs India's Nirbhay Vs Pakistan's Babur-Three subsonic cruise missile|wiki,differences,facts | idrw.org

Rumored to be a reversed engineered tomahawk ? Found in Afghanistan?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Why India needs Nirbhay? Pak has Tomahawk clones - News Oneindia

 

[pmaitra]

Rumored to be a reversed engineered tomahawk ? Found in Afghanistan?

Yes, that is what is believed. They also probably got help from NK engineers who studied those missiles that fell in Af-Pak.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Yes, that is what is believed. They also probably got help from NK engineers who studied those missiles that fell in Af-Pak.

Or Chinese? Babur and raad are both tomahawk clones in article above?

 

[SajeevJino]

Rumored to be a reversed engineered tomahawk ? Found in Afghanistan?

During Afghan Intervention some of the Tomahawks Crashed inside Bakistani Territory .

Within 4 years of Period tomahawks become Father of Bakistani Babur

 

[Hari Sud]

Yes "lethalforce" I am in agreement with you and the published reference from OneIndia.

I am unable to locate the reference but reports were that when President Clinton struck Osma Bin Laden camps in Afghanistan immediately after Nairobi attacks in 1997, that 62 missiles were fired. A few fell to the ground unexploded, a few fell short on fuel. Pakistani army made a determined effort to recover the unexploded missiles. These were transported to China immediately as Pakis were unable to reverse engineer them. In 1997, all this stuff was also new to the Chinese, hence they copied a lot and provided the reverse engineered technology to Pakistan. They kept some technology to themselves.

The reverse engineered technology does not always work. We can never be sure that Pakistan understood all that is behind this cruise missile. Hence their copy would work is unknown. They call all tests as success, even if the missile falls to ground in pieces as the case happened recently.

 

[SajeevJino]

In 1998, when the Clinton administration launched 75 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Osama bin Laden's bases in response to al Qaeda's bombing of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, six of the missiles misfired and landed across the border in Pakistan. It has long been suspected that these unexploded missiles were studied by Pakistani and Chinese scientists. Ted Postol, a professor of science, technology, and international security at MIT, confirms this: "A Pakistani colleague of mine told me that a significant number of those missiles that we launched at Afghanistan actually landed in Pakistan and those guys reverse-engineered them."

The propulsion system of the Babur missile that Pakistan tested in 2005 definitely resembles that of the BGM-109 Tomahawk. After an initial launch by a solid-fuel booster, a cruise turbo fan engine cuts in, giving the Babur a speed of 880 kilometers per hour and a range of 500 kilometers. That Chinese assistance was a factor in developing the Babur's GPS- and INS-based guidance system is supported by its resemblance to the Chinese YJ-62 antiship cruise missile and the family resemblance of both missiles to the Tomahawk.

The Missiles of August--Part II | MIT Technology Review

 

[Bhadra]

Come on Gentlemen. IAF is not going be an extinct force in spite thousands of Nirbhayas......

Every thing has its own role.... and economics

US has never won any war kind courtesy Tomahawk...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

During Afghan Intervention some of the Tomahawks Crashed inside Bakistani Territory .

Within 4 years of Period tomahawks become Father of Bakistani Babur

Also apache engines?
U.S. helicopter engines stolen en route to Pakistan port | Top News | Reuters

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Come on Gentlemen. IAF is not going be an extinct force in spite thousands of Nirbhayas......

Every thing has its own role.... and economics

US has never won any war kind courtesy Tomahawk...

300 tomahawks were fired on Iraq in 2 days from subs to start the first Iraq war.
An easy victory.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/weapons/tomahawk.html