New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Kunal Biswas]

Sako TRGM10

This is also multi-cal

^^^
As per the above article, IA might be looking at Sako TRG Sniper Rifle.

 

[arnabmit]

Looks Good!!!

The TRG M10 was designed as a user configurable multi caliber modular system and does not share its receiver and other technical features with the Sako TRG line. By changing bolts, magazines, fore ends and barrels in the field, the TRG M10 system can be switched between .308 Winchester, .300 Winchester Magnum and .338 Lapua Magnum chamberings and adapted to various requirements.

Sako TRGM10

This is also multi-cal

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some Information >>

Berrata have ability to offer four firearms as per demand >

1. Carbine 5.56mm ( May be 7.62 soviet )
2. Rifle ( Both 5.56nato & 7.62 Soviet )
3. Sniper Rifle-bolt action ( Both 7.62 nato & Possibly Soviet )
4. LMG ( Both 5.56nato & 7.62 Soviet )

===================================================================

Possible will induct with same fold-able butt-stock as in AR with full auto capability

Rifle

Sako TRGM10

Light Machine Gun with heavy barrel

=========================
=========================

This all could have been done to INSAS, Anyways..

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I have no idea what is like to shoot a bolt action, I like the old and faithful SVD ..

Maybe there is a claim for greater accuracy in a bolt action. Even so, working the bolt slows rate of fire, if you are looking at cost vs benefit,

 

[AshutoshNSingh]

Jawans may soon have top-class Italian machine guns - India - DNA

Jawans may soon have top-class Italian machine guns
Published: Friday, Feb 8, 2013, 9:00 IST
By Nirad Mudur | Place: Bangalore | Agency: DNA

The Indian Army is conducting trials of a sophisticated automatic assault rifle, ARX-160, a close quarter battle weapon from the stables of world renowned and one of the oldest small arms company in the world, Beretta of Italy.

Putting behind the recent controversy over the "barrel bulge" experienced by the Border Security Force while using Beretta's MX-4 Storm sub-machineguns, the defence ministry has included the company among a total of four contenders – other three being IWI, Sig and Colt – for choosing 45,000 ARX-160 assault rifles for the jawans of the Indian Army.

Udai Singh, Beretta – India country manager, said the ARX-160 A1 and A2 assault rifles are developed to be the most effective weapons on the battlefield.The rifles are designed to accept multi-calibre cartridges: a magazine of 45 cartridges of 5.56mm (NATO standard) as well as 39 cartridges of 7.62 mm in a magazine (in use among the jawans as with the INSAS rifles).

The rifle's barrel can also be changed from 16-inch to a 12-inch one, depending on the nature of combat planned, besides the weapon can also double as a sniper rifle in urban combat scenarios.

Both versions of the ARX-160, manufactured in Brescia in Italy, are already in use in at least 10 member countries of NATO, he said.

A unique feature of both versions of the assault rifle is that they are ambidextrous – which means safety catches and other features including the empty cartridge ejection chamber is provided on both sides of the rifle. This provides an added benefit that the soldier can choose which side the empties can eject from just before resorting to "corner fire" (firing at a target on the sides without turning the body).

Sources in Beretta informed DNA that the defence ministry is also in talks with the company to procure a specialised sniper rifle from the stables of Sako, a Beretta subsidiary company, ""¦but the talks are still in the initial stages," the source said.

A company spokesperson separately told DNA that Beretta was looking forward to a new beginning with the Indian defence ministry after the "barrel bulge" controversy was amicably resolved after all the 80 MX-4 Storm sub-machine guns, suspected to have the defect, were completely replaced with new ones. The 80 MX-4 weapons were a part of a total of 38,000 delivered to the Border Security Force in May 2012.

"The problem that we refer to as 'barrel bulge' occurs commonly due to defects in the ammunition, not in the weapons," explained the spokesperson. "Especially in an automatic rifle, which has micro grooves inside the barrel, a small defect in the cartridge can lead to the bullet getting stuck within. But as it is a machine gun, the following bullet rams into the stuck one at high velocity and displaces it. But this causes the barrel to bulge a little."

Seems like Mr Bhupinder Singh Tusky is working overtime...

 

[arnabmit]

@Kunal Biswas Sir, with Lubricant less operation (Only lubrication in Trigger group, none in Barrel/Bolt group) and tool less disassembly, would cleaning be a hassle? The hollow folding stock even contains a field cleaning kit.

Some more details for ARX-160:

Chambered for:
5.45×39 Soviet
5.56×45 NATO
6.80×43 SPC Remington
7.62×39 Soviet
7.62×51 NATO

Barrel Types:
12" for CQB
16" for Standard Operations
16" HB for SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon)
20" for Designated Marksman

A very detailed technical review dated 19 August, 2011:
Page 1
Page 2

Demo Videos:
[video=youtube_share;SGS2WAF2oAo]http://youtu.be/SGS2WAF2oAo[/video]
[video=youtube_share;6b2GnJm_m6M]http://youtu.be/6b2GnJm_m6M[/video]
[video=youtube_share;6YS8eAiDUzs]http://youtu.be/6YS8eAiDUzs[/video]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It sound strange to me actually..

I dont know how with such little care such Rifle can survive in dirt and sand so does water for long durations..

 

[arnabmit]

It sound strange to me actually..

I dont know how with such little care such Rifle can survive in dirt and sand so does water for long durations..

As per the review:

The engineers at Beretta managed to design a relatively low pressure gas system that is conceptually somewhere in between a long stroke piston system as used in the AK (and the AR 70/90) and the short stroke piston, i.e. of the AR-18 and recent weapons such as the H&K G36 or 416, FN SCAR, Magpul Masada and others. The piston is not limited to fractions of an inch in its travel under the gas pressure drive, imparting a sharp blow to the bolt carrier. Instead, it is free to move for almost two inches, practically following the bolt carrier for most of its rearward travel, and the gas pressure level in the cylinder is relatively low, yielding a gentler and more constant, positive rearward push to the bolt carrier group.

The ARX 160's bolt carrier sports an integral and monolithic milled operating rod, which projects in front of the carrier and also allows some of the weight to be moved forward, helping to tame muzzle lift. Other benefits that this system offers include the chance to position the gas block in the most efficient location. The absence of mechanical constraints between the barrel and the gas system itself prevents any vibration and interference affecting the weapon's accuracy, a trait of the majority of long stroke firearms with piston and op rod permanently joined to the bolt carrier, such as the AK. It also solves the problem of carbon build up and hot gases entering the action, so typical of AR weapons employing Stoner's "direct gas impingement" system.

The bolt itself is a rather complex block of CNC machined forged steel. The body of the bolt is deeply fluted. The grooves serve as cam guides to rotate the bolt, thru an integral pin within the bolt carrier, to actuate locking and unlocking and also to prevent carbon and other grime build up.

Looks like they have taken lots of "fire under all condition" features of the H&K 416 & improved further.

 

[ALBY]

Buying 66000 new rifles would be putting nails into the coffin of the whole insas programme.Why couldn't drdo go for modernising insas rifle accoding to army's needs.Or why couldn't go for a joint R&D with a foreign manufacturer as done in case of brahmos.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think i have already repeated many times >

1. INSAS will be replaced in Regular Army not in other branches of Law enforcement agencies..

2. In Army INSAS will be active in SF..

======================================================

DRDO,OFB and other dont work on its own, Only when they are given the task /GSQR, In this case DRDO Muti-cal Rifle is already going through trails but that is for FINSAS project..

Buying 66000 new rifles would be putting nails into the coffin of the whole insas programme.Why couldn't drdo go for modernising insas rifle accoding to army's needs.Or why couldn't go for a joint R&D with a foreign manufacturer as done in case of brahmos.

 

[kshkumsin]

I think i have already repeated many times >

1. INSAS will be replaced in Regular Army not in other branches of Law enforcement agencies..

2. In Army INSAS will be active in SF..

======================================================

DRDO,OFB and other dont work on its own, Only when they are given the task /GSQR, In this case DRDO Muti-cal Rifle is already going through trails but that is for FINSAS project..

well sir Prasun k sengupta says it is in concept stage.on what basis do u say it is undergoing trials,any pics or links please.no offence meant sir

 

[ALBY]

check out the new The WEEK magazine; there its been said that SIG sauer had paid bribes for turning the deal in favour of them so govt may scrap the tender to acquire 65000 new rifles.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Dedicated thread :
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/45769-drdo-multi-calibre-gun-undergoing-trials.html

Links :
DRDO multi-calibre guns undergoing trials - Times Of India
http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...jNi_fRaeLP1sh_A&bvm=bv.42768644,d.bmk&cad=rja

well sir Prasun k sengupta says it is in concept stage.on what basis do u say it is undergoing trials,any pics or links please.no offence meant sir

 

[mattster]

There is no way any DRDO lab is going to produce a gun like the ARX-160 or anything close to it.

It doesnt matter how much time or money you give them.
India simply is not strong when it comes to mechanical design and even worse in manufacturing.

Insas rifles with their wooden stock look like WW2 era rifles.

Give your ground troops the best rifle for the job....no matter where it comes from.

 

[Prometheus]

Buying 66000 new rifles would be putting nails into the coffin of the whole insas programme.Why couldn't drdo go for modernising insas rifle accoding to army's needs.Or why couldn't go for a joint R&D with a foreign manufacturer as done in case of brahmos.

I think we must first come to terms with the fact that the INSAS is quite sub standard then what the Americans and the Chinese are using, and we cannot let this affect our troops.

Even the US has decided to out source this task with the Individual Carbine competition:
Individual Carbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would be stupid to waste all our resources on researching how to make rifles when no matter what we wont come up with a product like this :
which is only possible after years of research and experience, for instance we wouldnt know what alloy to use to make the gun light and durable. the Insas is simply too big and to heavy and requires a lot of unnecessary maintenance like oiling etc

I think the better thing to do is hold a competition like the US ask for a technology transfer and from there we can start developing our own technology.
You cannot expect to be the best at everything you do, I think the DRDO and the Ordinance Factory should concentrate on technologies that are off limits like nuclear and missile technology and also weapons that are otherwise too expensive

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Well have to answer this..

How many rounds and how much time you two spend with real Assault Rifles ?, As for me i am a user of INSAS 1B1 and very well know about its maintenance and other details, And i find both of your post quite wrong and immature..

Kindly give some reasons why ( Please dont provide me 10 year old links ) ..

========================================

INSAS is quite sub standard then what the Americans and the Chinese are using

Insas is simply too big and to heavy and requires a lot of unnecessary maintenance like oiling etc

Insas rifles with their wooden stock look like WW2 era rifles.Give your ground troops the best rifle for the job....no matter where it comes from.

 

[Prometheus]

Well have to answer this..

How many rounds and how much time you two spend with real Assault Rifles ?, As for me i am a user of INSAS 1B1 and very well know about its maintenance and other details, And i find both of your post quite wrong and immature..

Kindly give some reasons why ( Please dont provide me 10 year old links ) ..

========================================

Well to be frank I havent used an INSAS but I did read what the Nepalese army had to say .... their guns over heated and jammed when they were fighting the Maoists, and the explanation that the Indian army / OFB gave was that the guns needed to be properly oiled.... which I found quite ridiculous, since guns like the TAVOR are made to work even if they get submerged under water or are covered in mud, and the Nepalese had done non of that .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Even you have, You still would not know, Coz it takes some long time to understand an Rifle..

Perhaps you did not knew that OFB official went to Nepal and used same Insas and fired 100s of rounds in front of Nepalese Army and INSAS was accepted back, There solider did not get proper instruction on maintained regarding INSAS which cost them there life..

About MUD and Water so does Sand and Snow, INSAS works just fine, It takes only 20mins to clean it all and Oil in field areas, TAR-21 does not does that, very few Rifles does that like AK & AKM, though INSAS have good accuracy almost as TAR-21..

All these new fancy rifles look very nice, But they are yet to prove themselves in Indian conditions not few rounds and time in trails but in an Unit for long time ( Exception : TAR-21 & X95 )..

INSAS have gone through it, I hope you got my points ..

Well to be frank I havent used an INSAS but I did read what the Nepalese army had to say .... their guns jammed when they were fighting the Maoists, and the explanation that the Indian army / OFB gave was that the guns needed to be properly oiled.... which I found quite ridiculous, since guns like the TAVOR are made to work even if they get submerged under water or are covered in mud, and the Nepalese had done non of that .

 

[Prometheus]

Even you have, You still would not know, Coz it takes some long time to understand an Rifle..

Perhaps you did not knew that OFB official went to Nepal and used same Insas and fired 100s of rounds in front of Nepalese Army and INSAS was accepted back, There solider did not get proper instruction on maintained regarding INSAS which cost them there life..

About MUD and Water so does Sand and Snow, INSAS works just fine, It takes only 20mins to clean it all and Oil in field areas, TAR-21 does not does that, very few Rifles does that like AK & AKM, though INSAS have good accuracy almost as TAR-21..

All these new fancy rifles look very nice, But they are yet to prove themselves in Indian conditions not few rounds and time in trails but in an Unit for long time ( Exception : TAR-21 & X95 )..

INSAS have gone through it, I hope you got my points ..

Well I am just wishing for the best for our army

Insas rifles with their wooden stock look like WW2 era rifles.Give your ground troops the best rifle for the job....no matter where it comes from.
mattster ↑

was not my comment
Also when the SLR was phased out and the INSAS was brought in , our soldiers were relieved to have a rifel which was a few ounces lighter ,how ever equally bulky ...I am sure once the new STD issue to replace the INSAS comes in , our boys will be equally happy. But I had read an article where soldiers stated that the SLR was so heavy, that it was difficult to hold it and fire. So many of our soldiers might have died because they couldnt lift their rifle in time to shoot at a terrorist holding an AK-47. Why should we compromise our tactics?

I have seen the INSAS as it is quite common to see cops with that rifle, and its very large for starters so you need more to aim it and get into position. Infact its so heavy that the police seldom hold it the way its supposed to be held, its always resting on a barricade or pointing to the ground or lodged on the back on their shoulder ..... you seldom find cops holding it with two hands, like a ready to shoot at position and you cant blame them for their fatigue. BTW have you had any experience with guns like the Tavor or the ARX160

 

[Prometheus]

If you know what I mean