New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


  • Total voters
    390

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Lots of Information you have are half, Let me clear you there..

ARX-160 : 3.1 kg empty
Colt AR : 2.88 kg empty
Galil ACE : 3.30 kg empty
SIG 551: 3.40 kg empty
CZ-805 BREN :3.5kg empty
INSAS 1B : 4.15 kg
INSAS 1B1 : 3.5 kg
Early INSAS 1B are +4kgs which is light not heavy unless some untrained personal use it, If still he finds that heavy its not the Rifle but him, He need to hit Gym / Exercise..

Regarding Solider / Police, Sling there Rifles back its common practice as the barrel is always UP or Down not pointing over anyone, Hence safe..

I have fired TAR-21 only in range once, Its a Short, accurate & Balanced Rifle, But it cannot be compared with INSAS coz TAR-21 Rifle is a bull-pup philosophy..

I have seen the INSAS as it is quite common to see cops with that rifle, and its very large for starters so you need more to aim it and get into position. Infact its so heavy that the police seldom hold it the way its supposed to be held, its always resting on a barricade or pointing to the ground or lodged on the back on their shoulder ..... you seldom find cops holding it with two hands, like a ready to shoot at position and you cant blame them for their fatigue.

BTW have you had any experience with guns like the Tavor or the ARX160
 

Prometheus

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
400
Likes
344
I think for urban warfare, the police should have gone for the MSMC rather then the INSAS
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
I think you are very correct & i like to talk on this but as this thread is about New AR lets keep it that way..

You can talk about MSMC in INSAS thread in Indian Army section..

I think for urban warfare, the police should have gone for the MSMC rather then the INSAS
 

halloweene

New Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
546
Likes
230
Few years ago, we tested (COS, France) SCAR, ARX and HK 416. For several reasons (heating, lever access ...) we went to HK. Probably some of the issues abovementioned were fixed. But if INdia want multiple caliber weapon, you dont have so many choices...
 

WMD

New Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
624
Likes
794
So, the new ARs will b army's standard rifle.

The Indian Army is in the final stages of choosing a 5.56mm/7.62mm rifle to replace the standard INSAS 5.56mm rifle, the basic infantry weapon. "We want a rifle with new, modern features," an infantry officer told The Sunday Standard.

The new rifle will be chosen from six offered by five foreign manufacturers— American Colt, Italian Beretta, Swiss Sig Sauer, Czech Ceska, and Israeli Weapons Industry (IWI). The rifle will have two inter-changeable barrels for 5.56 mm and 7.62mm calibres. While 5.56mm will be the primary barrel, the 7.62mm, the same as Kalashnikov calibre, will be used only in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operation sectors of Jammu and Kashmir and the North-east. The two barrels will be issued to the soldier, who would change them in the field according to his peace or operations posting. Otherwise, one of the two barrels will be mothballed and kept in the sector stores for use in times of need. The Indian Army is looking at initially buying 65,000 of these rifles at a cost of Rs 4,850 crore and plans its first induction by the middle of 2014. Through a transfer of technology, the Indian ordnance factories will manufacture another 1,40,000 rifles.

The second weapon for which tenders have been issued is the close quarter battle carbines. Initially, the Indian Army will be buying 43,000 of one of the carbines offered by Beretta, Colt, Sig Sauer and IWI at a proposed cost of Rs 3,200 crore. These will be inducted in early 2014. Another, 1,20,000 carbines of the chosen company will be licence-manufactured by the OFB.

The Indian Army is formulating qualitative requirements for two other weapons—a 5.56mm Light Machine Gun, and sniper rifles—now, and the tender will be issued shortly. The INSAS LMG in use now has a range of 700 metres and weighs 6.23 kg. The requirement for the new LMG is a range up to 1,000 metres. The weapon will be lightweight and be more lethal, officers said. This weapon too will be imported initially and later manufactured in India through technology transfer.

The sniper rifle in use with the Indian Army at present is the 1963-vintage Dragunov. But its ammunition is not manufactured by the OFB in India and needs to be bought from abroad frequently. It has a 800-metre range without a tripod and a fixed sighting system without magnification. The new sniper weapon would have a tripod to provide it stability, have a range of 1,000 metres with a sight variable magnification fitted to provide the sniper better accuracy.
INSAS-weary army shops for new infantry arms - The New Indian Express
 

JBH22

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
6,554
Likes
18,090
The sniper rifle in use with the Indian Army at present is the 1963-vintage Dragunov. But its ammunition is not manufactured by the OFB in India and needs to be bought from abroad frequently. It has a 800-metre range without a tripod and a fixed sighting system without magnification. The new sniper weapon would have a tripod to provide it stability, have a range of 1,000 metres with a sight variable magnification fitted to provide the sniper better accuracy.
Of course the idiot who decided to use Dragunov in a sniper role did not know that the rifle was designed as a marksman one to extend the range of a squad to 800m.


The Indian Army is formulating qualitative requirements for two other weapons—a 5.56mm Light Machine Gun, and sniper rifles—now, and the tender will be issued shortly. The INSAS LMG in use now has a range of 700 metres and weighs 6.23 kg. The requirement for the new LMG is a range up to 1,000 metres. The weapon will be lightweight and be more lethal, officers said. This weapon too will be imported initially and later manufactured in India through technology transfer.
Do they know which LMG they are going to set for instead of going for high end BS why not consider tried and tested Pecheneg,PKM or M249/M240?
 

WMD

New Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
624
Likes
794
the 1st article says SIG is the front runner, i always thought the ARX-160 and Tavor would b front runners.
but i guess the SG 550 series is also a good AR.
i think by cancelling contracts and blacklisting farms the only loosing party is us.
i hope this deal gets cleared soon.
the vintage INSAS should get replaced soon.
i bet our older FN-FAL could do a better job than INSAS.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Fire a mag out of SLR / FN-FAL and do tell us how you got an oil bath :D

And INSAS is in fact better than some of the Rifles competing here.. ;)
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Media channels are paid, one praise berrate another will do for Sig, this is a big deal like an Indian army Rifle MRCA..

Wait for offical conformation, dont fall for self - made news for different media sources..
 

average american

New Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,540
Likes
441
INSAS-weary army shops for new infantry arms

The Indian Army has half a million rifles and carbines it doesn't want, and now plans to junk them all over the next five years. The dark lining is that these infantry weapons were developed and manufactured in India to equip four lakh soldiers at an expenditure of Rs 25,000 crore over two decades. So far, so bad. Now add another Rs 50,000 crore that will have to be spent over the next decade to re-equip our soldiers with the four kinds of weapons that are key to the Army's 'Future Infantry Soldier as a System' programme, and the magnitude of this self-inflicted wound becomes painfully apparent.

The INSAS, or Indian Small Arms System, was developed by the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), as per specific requirements the Indian Army formulated in the late eighties. The usual delays hounded the programme, stretching the design development across a decade. The Ordnance Factories Board, tasked with mass production of the INSAS weapons took another five years to get going; the family of weapons was first seen with Indian Army uniforms only on Republic Day 1998.

The war that broke out in Kargil next year saw the INSAS put to test, and a spate of complaints about malfunctioning and build quality of the rifle poured out of Himalayan battlefields. The rifle jammed, its polymer magazine cracked in the cold, it would go full automatic when set for a three-round burst. Many jawans remained unconvinced about the stopping power of its 5.56 mm round; they wanted their heavy 7.62s back. It didn't help that the Nepal Army, one of the few INSAS customers outside India, had its complaints too. The INSAS glitches were fixed but advancement in firearms technology had rendered the weapons system too obsolete for the rapidly modernising Indian Army by then.

According to Lt. Gen. (Retd) P C Katoch, a Parachute Regiment officer, the INSAS family were "not the best" of weapons. "There were a number of problems with these rifles," he said, noting that the "DRDO and OFB could come up with only such weapons after 15 years of work".

India has now issued tenders for standard rifles and carbines and is in the process of issuing tenders for light machine guns and sniper rifles, thus completing the basic infantry quartet of small arms. Another senior serving officer said on condition of anonymity that the defence ministry had approved the import of these weapons "because it is aware of the problems" and that the development of new weapons "is not possible in a jiffy." India spends nearly Rs 7,000 crore annually on defence research and development, and has 39 ordnance factories to manufacture weapons for its 13-lakh strong armed forces but, in the words of another senior officer: "The DRDO and OFB have failed to develop one good, modern weapon with which the troops are satisfied. As a result, we had to go in for foreign-made equipment and have issued tenders for these."

The Indian Army is in the final stages of choosing a 5.56mm/7.62mm rifle to replace the standard INSAS 5.56mm rifle, the basic infantry weapon. "We want a rifle with new, modern features," an infantry officer told The Sunday Standard.

The new rifle will be chosen from six offered by five foreign manufacturers— American Colt, Italian Beretta, Swiss Sig Sauer, Czech Ceska, and Israeli Weapons Industry (IWI). The rifle will have two inter-changeable barrels for 5.56 mm and 7.62mm calibres. While 5.56mm will be the primary barrel, the 7.62mm, the same as Kalashnikov calibre, will be used only in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operation sectors of Jammu and Kashmir and the North-east. The two barrels will be issued to the soldier, who would change them in the field according to his peace or operations posting. Otherwise, one of the two barrels will be mothballed and kept in the sector stores for use in times of need. The Indian Army is looking at initially buying 65,000 of these rifles at a cost of Rs 4,850 crore and plans its first induction by the middle of 2014. Through a transfer of technology, the Indian ordnance factories will manufacture another 1,40,000 rifles.

The second weapon for which tenders have been issued is the close quarter battle carbines. Initially, the Indian Army will be buying 43,000 of one of the carbines offered by Beretta, Colt, Sig Sauer and IWI at a proposed cost of Rs 3,200 crore. These will be inducted in early 2014. Another, 1,20,000 carbines of the chosen company will be licence-manufactured by the OFB.

The Indian Army is formulating qualitative requirements for two other weapons—a 5.56mm Light Machine Gun, and sniper rifles—now, and the tender will be issued shortly. The INSAS LMG in use now has a range of 700 metres and weighs 6.23 kg. The requirement for the new LMG is a range up to 1,000 metres. The weapon will be lightweight and be more lethal, officers said. This weapon too will be imported initially and later manufactured in India through technology transfer.

The sniper rifle in use with the Indian Army at present is the 1963-vintage Dragunov. But its ammunition is not manufactured by the OFB in India and needs to be bought from abroad frequently. It has a 800-metre range without a tripod and a fixed sighting system without magnification. The new sniper weapon would have a tripod to provide it stability, have a range of 1,000 metres with a sight variable magnification fitted to provide the sniper better accuracy.
INSAS-weary army shops for new infantry arms - The New Indian Express
 

JBH22

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
6,554
Likes
18,090
I really don't understand the need for multi-caliber weapons?

Buy a good Assault rifle G-36, AK-100 series or HK and then good LMG this whole thing stinks.by going through the list of contenders I bet it will be like a white elephant considering Indian environment see the gimmick they done with BSF by issuing them Beretta SMG.
 

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,245
Likes
7,531
Country flag
Beretta Mx4 is a damn good SMG! Dont know why we are crying!

I really don't understand the need for multi-caliber weapons?

Buy a good Assault rifle G-36, AK-100 series or HK and then good LMG this whole thing stinks.by going through the list of contenders I bet it will be like a white elephant considering Indian environment see the gimmick they done with BSF by issuing them Beretta SMG.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
I have repeated the need in this thread also in INSAS thread..

I really don't understand the need for multi-caliber weapons?

Buy a good Assault rifle G-36, AK-100 series or HK and then good LMG this whole thing stinks.by going through the list of contenders I bet it will be like a white elephant considering Indian environment see the gimmick they done with BSF by issuing them Beretta SMG.
==============================================

You can find the link here somewhere about its flaws, serious flaws straight from the users..

Beretta Mx4 is a damn good SMG! Dont know why we are crying!
 

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,245
Likes
7,531
Country flag
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/44120-new-assault-rifles-indian-army-16.html#post675177

Sir, the issue was with the OFB Ammo, not with the guns.

A company spokesperson separately told DNA that Beretta was looking forward to a new beginning with the Indian defence ministry after the "barrel bulge" controversy was amicably resolved after all the 80 MX-4 Storm sub-machine guns, suspected to have the defect, were completely replaced with new ones. The 80 MX-4 weapons were a part of a total of 38,000 delivered to the Border Security Force in May 2012.

"The problem that we refer to as 'barrel bulge' occurs commonly due to defects in the ammunition, not in the weapons," explained the spokesperson. "Especially in an automatic rifle, which has micro grooves inside the barrel, a small defect in the cartridge can lead to the bullet getting stuck within. But as it is a machine gun, the following bullet rams into the stuck one at high velocity and displaces it. But this causes the barrel to bulge a little."
You can find the link here somewhere about its flaws, serious flaws straight from the users..
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
OFB carbine also use 9mm ammo, there is no issue with it, OFB ammo is faulty andwe have to import 9mm ammo too..

Those carbine are probably second hand version sold at higher price via agents in India, after complain they are replaced with new onces..

The documents also suggest other serious problems with these guns. Corrosion was found on 113 guns. 164 guns had tool marks and nine guns had machining rings.
Read more at: Faulty weapons worth Rs 200 crore given to BSF jawans : North, News - India Today
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
4,988
Likes
9,937
Any hopes for HK416 to win??? I really love that rifle.
 

WMD

New Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
624
Likes
794
The assault rifles under consideration were the Heckler & Koch, G 36 modular 5.56mm assault rifle (German), the Beretta 70/90 (Italy), SAR 21 of Singapore Technologies, XM 8 (USA), Steyr A3 (Austria), Tavor TAR 21 5.56mm and IMI Galil 7.62mm from Israel, Arsenal AK-74 (Bulgaria), Herstal F-2000 (Belgium) and SIG SG 551 (Switzerland) among others.

Modernisation of the Indian Infantry » Indian Defence Review
:confused::help:
anybody has any idea abt what carbines r under consideration?
 
Last edited:

Articles

Top