New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[ghost]

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[sthf]

As nauseating it makes me to say, Porki army has the right idea. Instead of buying arms like groceries at super market, get a good deal with a single arms manufacturer and produce it's entire line up.

POF did that in the 60s-70s with H&K and will probably do that again with CZ.

 

[Hari Sud]

As nauseating it makes me to say, Porki army has the right idea. Instead of buying arms like groceries at super market, get a good deal with a single arms manufacturer and produce it's entire line up.

POF did that in the 60s-70s with H&K and will probably do that again with CZ.

In the above chart cz has the least votes. So my question, if it is a less likeable weapon then, should india worry too much about Pak selecting an inferior weapon. Is that the reason that Czech are willing to share technology with Pakistan that nobody else wants it.

 

[sthf]

@Hari Sud The vast majority of voters including myself haven't picked up an assault rifle in their lives. It is more of an entertainment quiz. Vz. 58 was a darling of Para SF. BREN is in no way an inferior weapon. GIGN recently bought it.

Whatever Pakis are buying is of little relevance. These are small arms not 5th gen fighters. Hence Pakis can get TOT from whomever they want as long as they pay for it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Little you know about Tot with regards to small arms, No one has ever transferred ToT to any Indian establishment related to small arms let it be Government or Private, We had good experience with Russian (AK-103 ) and Israeli ( Zittara ) in past ..

And if someone reserch more into what other countries had issues with Tot, One will always find key details are always missing which are always exported by OEM ..

 

[Prashant12]

Israel Set to Win Big Indian Orders for Assault Rifles

New Delhi/ Malanpur. Israel has initiated a smart step towards winning huge orders for the Indian Army’s basic assault rifle and small arms by forming a joint venture with India’s Punj Lloyd industrial house.

Tavor, made by Israel Weapon Industries (IWI), is already the weapon of choice for the Indian Army for its specialized units, and as the Army is seeking to replace its existing stock of indigenous INSAS 5.56mm rifles with a lighter and more powerful weapon, different variants of Tavor stand a good chance of being the standard weapon for the Indian soldier in the years to come.

As per the new defence acquisition rules under Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2016, all major weapon purchases have to come with Transfer of Technology and gradual Make in India projects. By signing the agreement with Punj Lloyd, even without a confirmed large order, IWI has apparently placed itself ahead of three or four other competitors in the selection process.

IWI and Punj Lloyd have formed the Punj Lloyd Raksha Systems (PLR), whose first production facility was inaugurated on May 4 at Malanpur in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh by Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan. Madhya Pradesh already has a chunk of the Indian defence industry, albeit in the public sector, and Mr Chouhan promised all possible assistance to the private sector also in expanding the defence industrial base in the state.

IWI has 49 percent share, and Punj Lloyd, the majority 51 percent. Notably, this is India’s first small arms manufacturing venture in the private sector.

Present on the occasion were Minister of Rural Development, Panchayati Raj, Drinking Water & Sanitation Narendra Singh Tomar, senior military and police officials, Israel’s Ambassador in New Delhi Daniel Carmon.

But a highly significant presence on the occasion was that of Mr Michel Ben-Baruch, Head of SIBAT, the International Defence Cooperation Directorate of the Israeli Ministry of Defence. He observed: “Israel’s Ministry of Defense fully and wholeheartedly supports this cooperation and will continue to support the transfer of technology and information also in the future, for the betterment of improved advanced tools. Israel and India consider their defense industry cooperation as a monumental step forward, towards a future of immense potential.”

At a later stage, PLR is also likely to manufacture X95 carbine, Galil sniper rifle, and Negev Light Machine Gun (LG).

Punj Lloyd Chairman Atul Punj said on the occasion that his group had already invested about Rs 350 crore (US$ 5.5 million) to make components of the Tavor variants, and that as and when there are orders from the Indian Government, appropriate expansions will be made. Initially, PLR will make various components of the Tavor except the barrel, and the entire production will be exported to IWI for integration and testing, and the entire production will be exported to IWI for integration and testing, and then for its global sales, including to India.

Mr Samy Katsav, Chairman of the SK Group which is the parent company of IWI, observed on the occasion that Israel will be the first customer of the PLR venture, and also held the hope that as IWI exports 90 percent of its production, not only components but weapons fully made in India will find their way in the global market through the company’s network.

Army to announce weapon selection within weeks

Punj LLoyd President for Manufacturing Business Ashok Wadhawan told India Strategic that the Indian Army has announced a requirement for about 160,000 Tavor rifles, and the PLR joint venture was a step ahead to win that order. It has to be kept in mind that the Indian armed forces and paramilitary organizations are already using Tavor variants, and accordingly, accustomed to them. “It should be the logical standard weapon.”

A decision nonetheless on the choice is likely to be announced by the Indian Ministry of Defence in the coming few weeks.

Army reverts to 7.62 mm bore for small arms

Significantly, the Indian Army has reportedly also decided to go back to the lethal power of the 7.62mm bore instead of the 5.56mm it had opted for earlier, and PLR has offered to make it in both the bores in accordance with the requirements of the Army and paramilitary forces, which also use this weapon. An India-made Tavor rifle, or other small arms made by PLR, would be able to fire both the 7.62 and 5.56 bore munitions just with the change of the barrel, Mr Wadhawan said.

The number of new rifles with the Army is already inadequate, and once the small arms like Tavor and its variants are made indigenously, the requirement to replace and refresh the inventory can be met rather fast, without and time-consuming tendering process.

As per the existing rules, follow on orders for any equipment do not require fresh tenders, but just repeat orders to an existing supplier.

Asked about the raw materials like steel, Mr Wadhawan said that everything would be sourced from within the country and that the quality of the steel from India had already been tested and approved by IWI. As for the barrels, as the orders are small yet in numbers from IWI, they would continue to be made in Israel, but once “we have the Amy orders in hand the barrels would also be made in India.”

A rifle has three main components, bolt, carrier and barrel. Production of the first two components started with the inauguration of the facility.

Mr Wadhawan said that if the Government allows manufacture of munitions in the private sector, which it is likely to, then PLR will also get into that field.

Notably, IWI exports 90 percent of its production to many countries, including India, and PLR made components will also find their way into the international market.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/05/08/israel-set-to-win-big-indian-orders-for-assault-rifles/

 

[Butter Chicken]

So fully built Tavor in India including barrel and sourcing of raw material,this is as good it can get.

 

[AbRaj]

Now it will be their ultimate nightmare, weapons designed in Israel made in India :biggrin2::biggrin2:

Yahood+Hanood combo:biggrin2:

 

[AbRaj]

I agree with the first part but of course there are benefits for India:

1) Employment in India (and skilled jobs at that)
2) FDI in India
3) These world class IWI weapons will be signifcantly cheaper now and this will be a boost for security units in India

Long term benefits are that Punj may generate enough skilled labour and expertise that it can embark upon its own R&D efforts and leverage the IWI JV for that.

Furthermore, if given a level playing field these private players will force OFB to up their game or perish, competition is never a bad thing.

OFB is a fucking useless PSU. They destroyed cradibility and image of otherwise a very reliable and accurate INSAS design with their shitty manufacturing practices.
DRDO/ARDE better give production rights to companies who are willing and have potential to do justice to the hard developed design.
PS: Next time no Orange shit please. It looks shittier than cheap Chinese toys.

 

[AbRaj]

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I wouldn't be surprised if the actual OFB workshop looks like this.

 

[Prashant12]

MCIWS Update:

The Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired still now.

https://www.facebook.com/TeamINDRA/

 

[Rchauhan]

Big scoop ,it seems that IWI has developed a 7.62x51mm Tavor , most probably for Indian Army .Interesting times ahead.

Hi Ghost ,

Where did you get this Photo From ? is it in the above aajtak video ?

 

[ghost]

Hi Ghost ,

Where did you get this Photo From ? is it in the above aajtak video ?

Israel's Ambassador to India.
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[Johny_Baba]

The Czech-Slovak tried to develop their own Kalasknikov variant during 60's,designated as 'Lada'.However,the events didn't turn out very well for them as the once united nation,Czechoslovakia was partitioned into Czech and Slovak Republics.

Nevertheless,the Czechs tried to sell their kalashnikov variant to Indians during 2005 (with some modernised elements,such as Rails) but it seems that they failed to do so.
(for more info,read the article on webpage at http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1083)

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

I don't know the authenticity of the news but some of the news sources are pushing the idea that during the comparative trails for 7.62×51mm Indian army has shortlisted Galil Ace 52 and ARX 200 as two finalists. @Kunal Biswas sir do you know anything regarding this?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We will know more in time to come ..

Hard to pass comment at the moment ..

 

[itsme]

Any pics of Tavor 7.62?

300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Blood+]

I think Indian Army is again making a huge mistake by going for the 7.62 NATO as the new standard issue.

 

[hammer head]

Image surfaces DG Infantry Lt Gen YK Joshi firing the new 7.62mm*51mm assault rifle during trials , our assessment was right View attachment 16889 View attachment 16890

I'll be blunt iam disgusted to see the Rifle !! The makers and designers are may be sitting on some different planet away from the modular designing ideas. If this is what they present for as an upgrade then, May The Almighty be With the Army. Zoom onto the pic of DG Infantry see the cover above the gas tube The rail which has been placed over will not even survive a day of hard combat involving crouching, rolling and falls it will either come out or will simply change the zeroed sights accuracy which will be fatal during any combat situation.

They can't even copy the bloody Russian stuff accurately.

The forehand grip will be a pain in the ass for troops during extended ops,as it has not been finished properly every time a round will be fired it will hurt your fingers.

Lord have mercy i am really sick of seeing such weapons and Gentlemen let me tell you one more thing,Such assault rifles keep getting tested throughout the year at various ranges and this is not a new Agni Pariksha which has started. IMHO we shouild go for a joint venture with IWI and start make in India.
And the Magzine

 

[Johny_Baba]

With Kalashnikov design at the core,recoil is going to be a big issue for the 7.62 NATO Excalibur,and as one member mentioned that experts of Army trials panned JVPC for allegedly having high recoil they might reject this gun for same reason,too.

This rifle is a lot similar to Zastava M77B1 Assault Rifle (with some INSAS flavours,of course)

Notice the amount of recoil it creates while firing
Here's a Slow-Mo video