New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[republic_roi97]

I'm not an expert on this subject so I won't be able to argue on the merits of the issue, but INSAS has been panned by most soldiers I have met. Can't GoI just mass produce tavors for Indian army? They have spent enough money on making rifles that yield little results.

Congrats, your wish has come true, .... I guess. :-

Israel Transfers Assault Rifle Technologies to India
20:16 02.05.2017
Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) has set up a joint venture with an Indian partner to manufacture small arms, including assault rifles, from this year. This is in line with the Indian government’s efforts to persuade foreign arms makers to share technology and make the products under the Make in India program.

New Delhi (Sputnik) — IWI has tied up with India's Punj Lloyd to manufacture small arms including assault rifles, such as Tavor 21 and Galil, under technology transfer arrangement. Punj Lloyd has inaugurated a plant in central India with the help of IWI and the production of small arms will begin here this year. ‎

"We have done a joint venture with IWI and we have set up a plant for manufacturing assault rifles, carbines, light machine guns and snipers in our plant. This is a joint venture with technology transfer arrangement to India," Ashok Wadhawan, President — Manufacturing Business (Defense and Aerospace) at Punj Lloyd Limited told Sputnik.

Punj Lloyd will manufacture 5.56x45mm Tavor assault rifles that can fire up to 950 rounds per minute, and X-95 short weapon with a long barrel, three-caliber weapon having 360° Picatinny rail. Apart from assault rifles, the joint venture will also manufacture semi-automatic Negev (5.56X45mm and 7.62X51mm) assault light machine gun and 7.62x51mm semi-automatic Galil sniper rifles. The Galil sniper fires up to 1,000 meters, targeting small, mobile or concealed objectives.

Punj Lloyd has set its eye on the Indian Army's plan to purchase 185,000 assault rifles with telescopic sights in future. However, the company expects the joint venture to make it big in all the procurement plans of armed forces related to small arms. "It is basically for Make in India program. Right now we are not targeting just one product line here. All the small arms products, which are needed for the armed forces, we would manufacture," Wadhawan added.

Punj Lloyd has invested approximately $52 million in defense manufacturing and has invested $4 million for this particular business. "The investment amount would keep increasing depending on the order size which we keep getting," he said.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to visit Israel this July to mark the 25th anniversary of joint diplomatic relations. Modi's visit, which will be the first-ever by an Indian Prime Minister, could yield some more defense deals between the two countries including armed Heron TP drones and Phalcon radar systems.

The Indian government signed a contract worth more than $1.6 billion with Israeli arms firm IAI. Over the last three years, India has signed 10 defense contracts with Israel, which is second only to Russia.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201705021053212157-israel-technologies-india-rifles/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1B1 when inducted has issues, These are rectified in various versions as it evolves ..

There are plenty of issues besides factory errors & older procedures, I have talked about these on INSAS thread, In depth ..

TAR-21 is a delicate rifle, Its only issued to Paratroopers due to its bull-pup nature ( Shorter rifle ), For regular infantry the service rifle is custom designed as per GSQR made by Army..

I'm not an expert on this subject so I won't be able to argue on the merits of the issue, but INSAS has been panned by most soldiers I have met. Can't GoI just mass produce tavors for Indian army? They have spent enough money on making rifles that yield little results.

 

[IndiaRising]

1B1 when inducted has issues, These are rectified in various versions as it evolves ..

There are plenty of issues besides factory errors & older procedures, I have talked about these on INSAS thread, In depth ..

TAR-21 is a delicate rifle, Its only issued to Paratroopers due to its bull-pup nature ( Shorter rifle ), For regular infantry the service rifle is custom designed as per GSQR made by Army..

thanks for explaining the issue at hand. the only problem I have with the argument about Beretta, Galil, etc have failed requirements is that INSAS has been plagued with the same problems as well, so why continue with INSAS in that case?

 

[Chinmoy]

thanks for explaining the issue at hand. the only problem I have with the argument about Beretta, Galil, etc have failed requirements is that INSAS has been plagued with the same problems as well, so why continue with INSAS in that case?

The prob with Baretta and Galil is, they are much less in scoring point when it comes to reliability factor. Do you even realise the fact that first batch of TAR had been rejected on reliability issue. It took IAI 2 years to brush up those and make it workable under Indian condition. So its always a better bet to have in house development then looking at outside glitter.

 

[sthf]

So any news about the OFB battle rifle? Their 4 month deadline should be nearing it's end. I am quite confident that after 4 months of "intense hardwork" the end result would be a pimped up SLR.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Old photo during its induction in limited quantity, AFAIK These didn't proved themselves ..

Section of Army draw a QR for INSAS bullpup but it was called off in favor of import of TAR-21, INSAS 1b1 bullpup never even went into trail

=================

Bull-pups are considered before in IA, And subsequently dropped, Afaik before INSAS there were plans to induct AUG as standard firearm for infantry but dropped due various reasons, Soon after Kargil war their was section of Army advocated for bullpup design for regular infantry and 1B1 variant was turned for bull-pup but that was also dropped, The only part which remained is within PARA SF due to reason its fits the bill of a paratrooper ..

Regarding steyr AUG ,the plan to acciqure it was dropped when OFB offered to produce a indegenous design rifle .When para sf decided to go for new rifle OFB offered Insas bullpup to them but it failed in trials where Tavor was a winner,hence it did not see any daylight in service.Atleast this is what I have read, although I cannot produce the article right now to backup this claim.

I will repeat again their is no "major" issue for which a bullpup cannot be considered for Infantry.If you think otherwise I am fine with it.

 

[mavles ihctep]

Army will conduct user trail for another 20 years.

 

[ezsasa]

Army will conduct user trail for another 20 years.

Not this time.....................

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Unlike imported firearms, INSAS can evolve and it does from 1B, 1B1 to improved 1B1 and now Excalibur MK1A to MK1C and it will keep on improving just like any-other firearm on the globe, This is due to its origin which is Indian and does not suffer issue with intellectual rights as with foreign designs as they cannot be modified as per requirement unless its been ok by its OEM.

Its interesting to note that Indian SLR which was used and influenced INSAS 1B1 design was in real a illegal design which OFB copied from Belgium as well as England`s version of FALs to fulfill IA needs, As during those days no one offered license production of FAL but expensive purchase directly from their OEM without required modifications..

Even today we are making small adjustment, modifications to these old rifles ..

thanks for explaining the issue at hand. the only problem I have with the argument about Beretta, Galil, etc have failed requirements is that INSAS has been plagued with the same problems as well, so why continue with INSAS in that case?

The prob with Baretta and Galil is, they are much less in scoring point when it comes to reliability factor. Do you even realise the fact that first batch of TAR had been rejected on reliability issue. It took IAI 2 years to brush up those and make it workable under Indian condition. So its always a better bet to have in house development then looking at outside glitter.

 

[mavles ihctep]

Not this time.....................

Is there any timeframe for assault rifle procurement ?

 

[ezsasa]

Is there any timeframe for assault rifle procurement ?

immediate priority is 7.62 NATO. IA even removed optics from the tender to ensure trails do not fail like last time because of them.

trail period for us is 1 year minimum, because of summer and winter trails which are unavoidable. Procurement process started in 3rd quarter last year, we might see a deal signed in 1st quarter 2018.

let's just hope weapons don't fail in the trials..

 

[Hari Sud]

Anybody following on an Indian industrialist "Punj" trying to get a license to make Tavor or Galil rifle in India.

How does rifle stand opposite other rifles under consideration.

The tables on INSAS and Excalibur has been turned with Army going to a higher caliber of 7.62 for the new rifle.

Should Indian army which is very import minded go for Galil or Tavor rifles.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Galil 5.56x45 is just good looking INSAS supported by Dalals.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its like another JV offer which Russian did few months ago with another Pvt.co in India ..

It does not mean these will get inducted right away, Nor it means that the indigenous company will get ToT rather screwdriver tech which has no scientific value to our cause, The cost will be the same as imported once ..

 

[ghost]

I happened to watch this report on aajtak ,where their team visited Punj lloyd small arms factory in Gwalior.The factory was spanking clean,well organised with modern machinery .The workers were dressed in smart uniform with some israelis guiding them on the machines.I spotted galil,tavor,x 95,negev range of firearms .

All in all, a modern small arms producing facility;what most of us had wished for.This is a small beginning of greater things to come in Indian small arms industry.The hegemony of OFB will be challenged for good.Wish they receive massive orders and flourish with future R&D and weapon development in-house.

 

[ghost]

I happened to watch this report on aajtak ,where their team visited Punj lloyd small arms factory in Gwalior.The factory was spanking clean,well organised with modern machinery .The workers were dressed in smart uniform with some israelis guiding them on the machines.I spotted galil,tavor,x 95,negev range of firearms .

All in all, a modern small arms producing facility;what most of us had wished for.This is a small beginning of greater things to come in Indian small arms industry.The hegemony of OFB will be challenged for good.Wish they receive massive orders and flourish with future R&D and weapon development in-house.

===================================================================================

 

[ezsasa]

===================================================================================

Pakis say they hate israel and would love to see it destroyed, and yet they come here and get killed by weapons made in israel.
Karma i guess...

 

[Hari Sud]

Galil 5.56x45 is just good looking INSAS supported by Dalals.

Not really that Galil is a glorified INSAS.

 

[abingdonboy]

Pakis say they hate israel and would love to see it destroyed, and yet they come here and get killed by weapons made in israel.
Karma i guess...

Now it will be their ultimate nightmare, weapons designed in Israel made in India :biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Punj Lloyd so called plant seems more like a warehouse than a manufacturing unit. A small arms plant requires Rs 1000 crore investment. What has Punj spent? Another wanna be screw driver assembly unit.