- Jan 31, 2019
Honestly i was hoping we would finally get over the ak platform and move over to an at platform but..
Let's not elude ourselves to the facts of the AK-203 deal though.Amethi factory to get orders for 6.7 lakh Kalashnikovs soon
New Delhi: The rifles factory in Amethi is set to get an order to manufacture a record 6.7 lakh Kalashnikovs soon, with the Army clearing the technical gates and commercial bid likely to be submitted by next month. The Indo-Russian Rifles Private Limited joint venture for production of AK 203 assault rifles is likely to get the go-ahead at an acquisition meeting later this month and will move to the next stage of signing of the contract to start manufacturing.
While the factory in Amethi was formally inaugurated in March, orders are yet to be placed as they had to go through the acquisition process of negotiating technical and commercial terms. ET has learnt that as per the plan, Russia will transfer complete technology on the modern assault rifle to India.
In the initial phase, 6.7 lakh rifles will be made for the Army and the number will increase later to at least 7.5 lakh as requirements of other forces are also added to the order. To achieve technology transfer, it is planned that after the first one lakh rifles, all components of the weapon system will be produced in India.
A top Army officer said the joint venture is a good example of how India has achieved technology transfer through planned acquisitions. The joint venture to produce Kalashnikov rifles has been described as the ‘fastest’ created by Russia for an Indian venture. The factory has already started getting functional with the supply of equipment to manufacture weapons and in an exception, a serving Major General of the Army has been tasked to head it.
The project is expected to produce AK 203 rifles that will cost close to $1000 each.
True indeed! What appears to be a innocuous deal for replacing standard issue INSAS/SLR of non-frontline troops is proving to be a major armament change at lowest level of IA. The way they are proposing absurd idea of replacing sterling with short barrel AK 203 is a solid proof that they are slowly consolidating their position as the biggest small arms supplier to IA. Provided that the OFB has got MHA as their captive market where else the excess AK 203 will get absorbed? Moreover, we are introducing SIGs with entirely different design philosophy to our infantry. It makes me wonder how we are transitioning from a single hodgepodge INSAS to a hodgepodge of multiple service rifles of different calibre and design model. Only time will tell which option was the worst one!!Let's not elude ourselves to the facts of the AK-203 deal though.
This isn't about receiving ToT for Kalashnikov design. We already knew how to reproduce the AK design just fine (Ishapore's Ghaatak and Trichy's TAR are examples). And the AK-203 is not the AK-15, as in it doesn't have any major differences to the legacy AK design, the improvements made are functional, but easily doable on Ghaatak/TAR as well (provided OFB could be a bit more proactive and keep up with the times).
So tech-wise there's nothing in this deal that justifies spending $500 worth of forex per rifle (adds up to about $335 million going into Russia's pocket over the course of the 670,000 production run) if we assume a 50% or close to 50% stake in IRRPL for Kalashnikov/Rosoboronexport.
This deal is simply about keeping both the Russians and the OFB happy with one move. That's all.
But for this money, we could have gotten away with a much much better weapon platform from the West or Israel. Imagine the sheer sums of money we could have saved if we just went with one family of guns with a lot of common parts for the whole requirement like:
ACE 22/23: Carbine requirement (5.56N)
ACE 52: Frontline battle rifle (7.62N)
ACE 32: CI/CT & non-frontline regulars assault rifle (7.62K)
...all from one company PLRS (Punj Llyod-IWI JV) and produced in India.
Imo, per unit cost is the primary factor,Any idea why Indian Army went for AK-203 and not AK-15 ?
Two of these drawbacks are true with regard to the existing issue service rifle (INSAS) as well.That means 20 round mags, higher recoil and compromised CQB.
This is incorrect. The rifles were inducted into Northern Command yes, but for use by units manning the LoC and their relevant Ghatak teams etc. and not by units in counter-insurgency (like RR).In addition to the AK-203, the Army recently began inducting the first batch of 10,000 SIG-716 assault rifles. Troops engaged in counter insurgency operations in the Army’s Northern Command have started receiving these rifles, sources said.
I have fired insas, and the only thing I liked about that rifle is it's accuracy. Insas is and will be more accurate than ak203. Other than that it's shit.Two of these drawbacks are true with regard to the existing issue service rifle (INSAS) as well.
In terms of actual usability, the SIG is actually an upgrade over the INSAS. It's more compact length-wise, the rounds have a lot more stopping power, is infinitely more adaptable thanks to the Rails & M-LOK, and the option of full-auto fire is available in a given situation (probably won't hit shit firing for effect but useful to suppress).
Sure, a 5.56 weapon (or AK for that matter) is definitely easier on the soldier especially in a counter-insurgency setting, but the drawbacks you went over are far more relevant to a soldier who's switching over from a M4 carbine platform to an AR-10 platform. What's happening here is that soldiers are gonna be switching over from an M16A2-type platform (INSAS) to an AR-10.
Yes the step-up in calibre will be felt for those who're replacing their current INSAS/AKs with 716s, but in terms of actual functionality, at least as far as the INSAS users go, this is a tremendous upgrade.
This is incorrect. The rifles were inducted into Northern Command yes, but for use by units manning the LoC and their relevant Ghatak teams etc. and not by units in counter-insurgency (like RR).
RR will receive AK-203s (whenever they come) as a direct replacement for their existing older AKs.
Forget INSAS, it's dead now. And no one can bring it back to life as far as Army usage goes.I have fired insas, and the only thing I liked about that rifle is it's accuracy. Insas is and will be more accurate than ak203. Other than that it's shit.
Was bid at $990 per piece in the competitive tender. An incredible discount over the retail price of the same (which is in the $2,100-2,300 range). And SIG Sauer is offering a follow-up deal for up to 50% the quantity of the original deal, at the same price. So we can buy another 36,200 rifles for the same $990 quote.What about the price of Sig saucer , .??
Army is not in the business of releasing them. ADG-PI doesn't consider such things as worthy/necessary to inform the public about.How come not even a single pic of IA's SIGs?
Forget INSAS, it's dead now. And no one can bring it back to life as far as Army usage goes.
Was bid at $990 per piece in the competitive tender. An incredible discount over the retail price of the same (which is in the $2,100-2,300 range). And SIG Sauer is offering a follow-up deal for up to 50% the quantity of the original deal, at the same price. So we can buy another 36,200 rifles for the same $990 quote.
In comparison, there isn't any apparent bulk discount in the AK-203 deal thanks to them being nominated by GoI instead of a competitive tender. We'll be getting AK-203s at approx $1,000 per piece...which is pretty much the same as the price for buying a proper Russian-made AK like Saiga in the US retail market.
Ak 203 coming to IA don't have sights in all they are add-on only foldable but stock and pistol grip all other are add-on not standard suit out, the mil ak 203 cost 850$ per piece the 1000$ price come becoz of the 50 bullet mag and new foldable but stockPublished reports earlier said that AK-203 is priced under $500 and if you upgrade to the same level as Russian Special forces then price jumps up $400 to $500 for a telescope, pointer light, muzzle break and possible under barrel launcher.
The only thing great about Sig rifle is that it is precisely machined and new technology of the receiver and higher shooting range puts it much ahead of others. The value of AK rifles is that it works every time, all the time. It is less precisely machined and possibly stamped receiver but its reliability puts it way ahead of others.
Please provide the said reports.Published reports earlier said that AK-203 is priced under $500
Not exactly.The only thing great about Sig rifle is that it is precisely machined and new technology of the receiver and higher shooting range puts it much ahead of others. The value of AK rifles is that it works every time, all the time. It is less precisely machined and possibly stamped receiver but its reliability puts it way ahead of others.
Please provide the said reports.
The current production version of INSAS rifle (1B1) is procured by the Army for approx Rs. 55k per ($760+) per piece. State Police units have reportedly bought INSAS variants (not 1C, that's not in production) for well over $1,000...all thanks to overhead charges and poor management on part of OFB (not to mention, captive market).
Offering AK-203 for less than $500 is frankly unbelievable.
On the other hand there are multiple sources saying the price is in neighbourhood of $1,000. Here's one:
A modern piston-driven AR-15/AR-10 from a reputed manufacturer is equally good if not better than any AK in such metrics as Mean Rounds Between Failure (MRBF) or Stoppages (MRBS), which form part of selection criteria when a competent body (like an Army evaluation team) conducts competitive trials.
So 'reliability' is not the correct word.
The advantage of AK is that it is generally easier to recover from a given malfunction (especially a Type-2/3/4) without necessarily taking the gun to the armourer's table. Note that even this is a generalization, and there are always exceptions.
It's a source-based news, hence all reports will quote the same, whether from Print, ET, or even OpIndia which is pro-Right Wing:i will post the reference when i find it, it is a year old , but i do not believe your The Print reference. it is anti government Luytenite and unreliable.
It's not a question of price but of technical requirement and platform familiarity. When OFB-Kalashnikov combine was nominated, the prices of 7.62x51 fast-track tender were still unknown, commercial bids weren't submitted yet.Again if both guns are priced the same then no need to order 203.
|Thread starter||Similar threads||Forum||Replies||Date|
|W||Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.||Indian Army||450|
|Indian Army set to receive new assault rifles||Indian Army||2|
|Indian Army`s Assault Rifle Tender In Trouble ..||Indian Army||18|
|actress Mamta Kulkarni adorns the butt of the assault rifle of an Indian soldier 1999||Military Multimedia||20|