Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

[Rikbo88]

Well so much for any PM Modi announcement on the MRH tender. He has departed back to India after his 5 day visit here. I am not really surprised, it would have been unusual for him to do so before the tender bids have been opened and the vendors officially informed.

 

[ladder]

Well so much for any PM Modi announcement on the MRH tender. He has departed back to India after his 5 day visit here. I am not really surprised, it would have been unusual for him to do so before the tender bids have been opened and the vendors officially informed.

Summit meet is not used to discuss individual deals or announcement. The officials would have worked on the side-lines.

Tenders documents have been opened but officially there is no announcement ( I think there was none even during MMRCA, Dassault went to media houses stating that it won, and MoD merely confirmed the news).

So, although unofficially, we know who won, but have to wait until officially declared by either party.

ADDED.

Some sources say the tender has been scrapped again.

 

[Rikbo88]

@DhairyaYadev - You are right. This thread really should be moved over to the Indian Navy discussion area.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

I request the admins to move this thread to Indian Navy Section please !

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

As I dont know much about helis , What about the ASW capabilities of NH90 and S70 ? Are they both equal on that front or is S70 better?

 

[Zebra]

Well so much for any PM Modi announcement on the MRH tender. He has departed back to India after his 5 day visit here. I am not really surprised, it would have been unusual for him to do so before the tender bids have been opened and the vendors officially informed.

Sir, how it will effect Sikorsky? I mean, as per the new development by this new govt for MRH tenders.

IMO, the MoD should go for both the Helos, MH-60R and S-70B.

MH-60R will give them interoperability with other allied forces and coalition partners. On top of it, MH-60R has very long range too.

On other hand, S-70B is cheaper and India don't need that long range all the time.

S-70B can be customize heavily. And Indian Navy needs big fleet too, so it will be easy to split in between these two choppers.

There are two different tenders for the same kind of helicopters anyway.

Correct me, if I am wrong. Please.

 

[Rikbo88]

As I dont know much about helis , What about the ASW capabilities of NH90 and S70 ? Are they both equal on that front or is S70 better?

Yes, both capable of fulfilling the ASW & ASuW missions. Both with dipping sonars and anti-ship missile capabilities. My opinion is that the S-70B is better due to the overall design and implementation of the avionics and mission systems and how the user interacts and uses the capabilities of the aircraft.

 

[Rikbo88]

Sir, how it will effect Sikorsky? I mean, as per the new development by this new govt for MRH tenders.

IMO, the MoD should go for both the Helos, MH-60R and S-70B.

MH-60R will give them interoperability with other allied forces and coalition partners. On top of it, MH-60R has very long range too.

On other hand, S-70B is cheaper and India don't need that long range all the time.

S-70B can be customize heavily. And Indian Navy needs big fleet too, so it will be easy to split in between these two choppers.

There are two different tenders for the same kind of helicopters anyway.

Correct me, if I am wrong. Please.

If the MOD cancels the MRH tender I am not sure how it will affect Sikorsky. All I know is that it will mean a much longer delay for the IN to get the aircraft they so desperately need.
They are basicly the same aircraft as far as airframe and engines are concerned. Some subtle differences. Max air speeds are compreable so I am not sure why you think the max range of the 60R is so much greater. Far as I know they are similar. Next tender Sikorsky will likely offer both aircraft. But if the 70B wins the MRH competition and is happy with the aircraft it would not make much sense to procure a different aircraft. Avionics systems are vastly different so then you have to consider training, maintenance, logistics, spares, etc. Much more expensive to support two different aircraft models. Since India passed on the 60R initially due to it being offered only through the FMS (foreign military sales vs direct commercial sale) route I doubt commonality with the USN is a high priority. For some countries, like Australia, commonality with the USN is a high priority and that is one reason they chose the 60R after their poor experience with the NH-90.

 

[Zebra]

If the MOD cancels the MRH tender I am not sure how it will affect Sikorsky. All I know is that it will mean a much longer delay for the IN to get the aircraft they so desperately need.
They are basicly the same aircraft as far as airframe and engines are concerned. Some subtle differences. Max air speeds are compreable so I am not sure why you think the max range of the 60R is so much greater. Far as I know they are similar. Next tender Sikorsky will likely offer both aircraft. But if the 70B wins the MRH competition and is happy with the aircraft it would not make much sense to procure a different aircraft. Avionics systems are vastly different so then you have to consider training, maintenance, logistics, spares, etc. Much more expensive to support two different aircraft models. Since India passed on the 60R initially due to it being offered only through the FMS (foreign military sales vs direct commercial sale) route I doubt commonality with the USN is a high priority. For some countries, like Australia, commonality with the USN is a high priority and that is one reason they chose the 60R after their poor experience with the NH-90.

I used 'interoperability' word bcz people are talking here on DFI about F-35 for IN.

They are looking at interoperability with other navies.

The vessel which carry F-35, for the same reason it can carry MH-60 too.

Anyway, I could be wrong though.

 

[Rikbo88]

I used 'interoperability' word bcz people are talking here on DFI about F-35 for IN.

They are looking at interoperability with other navies.

The vessel which carry F-35, for the same reason it can carry MH-60 too.

Anyway, I could be wrong though.

I could be wrong too. If they are looking for interoperability with the USN that would be a plus for the 60R. USN is pushing hard for the 60R on India to increase the international sales of the 60R to help recoup the large amount of $$ they spent developing it. Sikorsky has to tread a fine line between winning the program and not antagonizing the USN be pushing the 70B to vigorously. But Sikorsky is in the advantageous position of having two aircraft to offer that both have advantages to potential customers. Bottom line, if the 70B wins the MRH tender then it will be the in the favored position for the next tender. Lockheed & the USN tried to get Brazil to go to the 60R after it bought the 70B but Brazil just bought more 70B's because they are very happy with the aircraft. So, I think the 60R will have an up hill battle wherever it competes with the 70B. This is especially true since up to now the 70B has always been substantially cheaper and I don't see that changing.

 

[Rikbo88]

Sad day today. Just learned a Turkish Navy S-70B crashed into the mountains after leaving the Cengiz Topel airbase. Visibility was pour and the mountains were obscured at the time of the crash. I spent many weeks at the Cengiz Topel base supporting delivery of S-70B aircraft and came to know many TN officers and crew. I enjoyed working with them and I am very saddened by this accident. We always have to remember that while we all blog here about the MRH program, there are men and women risking their lives for their country. Whatever the MRH decision, let's hope the men and women of the Indian Navy get an aircraft that they can rely on.

Four killed in Turkish Seahawk crash - 10/13/2014 - Flight Global

 

[SajeevJino]

.
@Rikbo88 NH 90 out Becasue of the Connections with Finmeccannia

Finally S 70 B only Left

 

[Rikbo88]

@ SajeevJino - Yea, just read the Times of India article. That is awesome, now the real fun begins! If, of course, this is actually all true. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for posting!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ter-acquisition-race/articleshow/45041507.cms

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

Rather than buying modium multirole helicopter from foreign country hal should make jv with private company and build MMR helicopter in India indigenously using the superior technology used in ALH and LCH.

 

[Zebra]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

Rather than buying modium multirole helicopter from foreign country hal should make jv with private company and build MMR helicopter in India indigenously using the superior technology used in ALH and LCH.

If you want to say Indian private company, then first of all.....how much time it will take?

Second........can we wait till then ?

And for indigenous technology development matter.......if it is that easy, then HAL could have gone through it already.

Tell me, I am wrong?

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

If you want to say Indian private company, then first of all.....how much time it will take?

Second........can we wait till then ?

And for indigenous technology development matter.......if it is that easy, then HAL could have gone through it already.

Tell me, I am wrong?

No. u r right.but nothing is impossible dear. If China can build 2 nos.of 5th gen fighter within 5-7yrs time period back to back , then why can not india produce a 10 ton heli derivative of dhruv in 2 yrs time period .ya definitely engine is a major issue as hal has no engine to support 10 ton class heli right now but they can procure it from France like in the case of luh. As all the major technologies are present already thank due to the development of ALH and Luh, hal should not face major problem in developing MMLH. By sharing their work with pvt company they need even less time for the development.

 

[Zebra]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

No. u r right.but nothing is impossible dear. If China can build 2 nos.of 5th gen fighter within 5-7yrs time period back to back , then why can not india produce a 10 ton heli derivative of dhruv in 2 yrs time period .ya definitely engine is a major issue as hal has no engine to support 10 ton class heli right now but they can procure it from France like in the case of luh. As all the major technologies are present already thank due to the development of ALH and Luh, hal should not face major problem in developing MMLH.

Yeah, nothing is impossible.

But still all these will take time and nobody got it.

 

[Rikbo88]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

I have heard the envelope opening ceremony has been held. Waiting on the official announcement.

 

[karn]

Whatever happened to Kamov ? Did they ever apply for this tender ?

 

[Rikbo88]

@karn - Never part of this tender. Just the S-70B & NH90 were down selected.