Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

[karn]

So they did not qualify on technical grounds ?
Pity ... I like their coaxial rotor designs . Speaking of which the is there any scope of a naval S 97 ?

 

[Rikbo88]

@karn - S-97 - not to my knowledge at this time, aircraft is still in development and a long way off from being offered for international sales. Since this will be the first generation of this aircraft the focus is on US Army mission requirements.
Kamov did not have an aircraft that could meet all the NSRs(Naval Staff Requirements).

 

[Rikbo88]

It's official, the Indian Navy has selected the S-70B! Now the fun begins! Anyone know whom in the MOD I might contact to submit my resume to offer my services to the IN to help them in the acquisition of the S-70B?
Navy to purchase 16 US multi-role choppers for $1 billion - The Economic Times

 

[karn]

@Rikbo88 1 billion USD for 16 helicopters ? Does that come lifetime MRO ?
PS Offer your service to the navy ?Do you want to be branded a foreign agent and cause the deal to be scrapped ?

 

[Rikbo88]

@karn - I have explained the price issue a number of times in various blogs. That is the total program cost. It includes spares, logistics, training, and NRE ((non-recurring engineering) and more. As with most programs, the customer will have requirements that an aircraft can immediately meet and others that require engineering development and test. An example is installing the FLASH sonar in place of the HELRAS on the S-70B for India. There are a significant number of development items for this program. Sikorsky will typically provide a multi-year warranty on the entire aircraft including all mission and avionics equipment. During that time, all defects and non-compliances must be resolved at no cost to the customer. All this and more goes into that $1 billion price tag you see. It is much, much more than just that of the aircraft themselves.
As far as your other comment, and as an avid supporter and domain expert for the S-70B, I would be honored to offer my services to help them in the acquisition of this aircraft doing so in a professional and legal manner.

 

[karn]

@Rikbo88 Makes sense ... I assumed that was the case .
As for the other part it was joke .I was poking fun at our media and establishment that screams corruption whenever they sniff "foreign agent ".

 

[Zebra]

@karn - I have explained the price issue a number of times in various blogs. That is the total program cost. It includes spares, logistics, training, and NRE ((non-recurring engineering) and more. As with most programs, the customer will have requirements that an aircraft can immediately meet and others that require engineering development and test. An example is installing the FLASH sonar in place of the HELRAS on the S-70B for India. There are a significant number of development items for this program. Sikorsky will typically provide a multi-year warranty on the entire aircraft including all mission and avionics equipment. During that time, all defects and non-compliances must be resolved at no cost to the customer. All this and more goes into that $1 billion price tag you see. It is much, much more than just that of the aircraft themselves.
As far as your other comment, and as an avid supporter and domain expert for the S-70B, I would be honored to offer my services to help them in the acquisition of this aircraft doing so in a professional and legal manner.

Good news....Govt may relax norms for authorized defence agents - The Times of India

Not sure where in defense ministry.

But if I am there in your place then at lest I would try these two places.......

1) Indian Consulate - New York, USA

2) Interact with Hon'ble PM | Prime Minister of India

 

[Zebra]

@Rikbo88,

One little question please, if you don't mind. It is about Schweizer S-434 helicopter.

This little bird comes in military configuration also, if I am not wrong.

What is the use of S-434 in military?

They managed to get their first order also, it gone to non-US customer, anyway.

 

[Rikbo88]

No clue. I have not had any experience with their aircraft. Typically these smaller aircraft are used as scout and reconnaissance aircraft.

 

[Zebra]

Defence News - Sikorsky and India forge helicopter deal

Saturday, December 20, 2014
By : West Fair Online

The Indian Navy has selected Stratford-based Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., a subsidiary of Hartford-based United Technologies Corp., to provide 16 Seahawk helicopters.

"Negotiations will now begin to procure 16 S-70B Seahawk helicopters, with an option for eight additional aircraft, along with a complete logistics support and training program," Sikorsky said in a recent statement.

"India's selection of the S-70B helicopter represents a major strategic win for Sikorsky in an important growth market, and positions us well for future opportunities," said Mick Maurer, president of Sikorsky Aircraft. "We look forward to a long-term collaboration with the Indian government and local industry as we work to bring the Indian Navy the highly advanced multi-role S-70B aircraft."

The proposed Indian Navy S-70B model will include avionics and flexible open architecture weapons management systems that use advanced sonar, 360-degree search radar, modern air-to-surface missiles and torpedoes for antisubmarine use, Sikorsky reported. A blade-and-tail fold capability will facilitate shipboard storage.

The company said the S-70B aircraft also will enhance the Indian Navy's capabilities to perform noncombat maritime roles, including search and rescue, utility and external cargo lift, surveillance and casualty evacuation.

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Sikorsky and India forge helicopter deal | Westfair Communications

 

[Rikbo88]

Sounds like the finalized contract is making good progress and confirmation of the S-70B being built in India if Sikorsky wins the follow on contract for 120+ helos.
Sikorsky To Make Naval Helicopters In India / Sputnik India English - News, Opinion, Radio

 

[Rikbo88]

For those interested in these things, the Official model designation of the Sikorsky MRH model will be known as the S-70B-7. This indicates the 7th model variation of S-70B aircraft which are in service with a variety of international navies. Just shows how good and experienced Sikorsky is at customizing an aircraft to meet the customers need. Can't wait for the next RFP for 120 aircraft to come out. Should be a bunch of contenders. Gonna be interesting! Despite what I have read, Sikorsky should have the inside track on winning that bid since the 70B should be able to fill all the required roles and the advantage for the Indian Navy having all one basic model aircraft to fill all its naval needs is enormous. And this will be the most advanced version of the "B" ever created and the Indian Navy will love it. It will be a really kick ass aircraft. All kinds of new stuff being added or updated. I cannot wait to watch it take form having worked on this aircraft for so many years. It will truly be the best and most advanced ASW/ASuW rotorcraft in the world.

 

[Rikbo88]

Well, here we are in August 2015 and still no contract. I am sure you all heard the MOD seems to be delaying, from what I hear due to the escalation in price from the 2011-2012 quotes provided. Don't know the details but as you all could surmise there is a cost escalation factor each year after when the proposal was provided which is normal and to be expected. If anyone has any other info please share on this forum. Sikorsky has indicated they would likely offer me a contracting position sometime after the contract is signed but who knows. I will also try contacting the same MOD contacts I tried 6 months ago to see if the MOD/IN might be interested in my services. Would love working with the IN customer but they also will likely do nothing until there is a signed contract. If anyone does have any MOD/IN contacts and could share them with me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SajeevJino]

Fresh negotiations with Sikorsky for naval helicopters: Manohar Parrikar

Defence Ministry has started fresh cost negotiations with the US firm Sikorsky for purchase of 16 multi-role naval helicopters, Lok Sabha was told today.

In a written reply to Lok Sabha, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the procurement proposal for the helicopters is being processed in accordance with the Defence Procurement procedure and the request for price escalation was not found acceptable by the Contract Negotiation Committee (CNC).

"The vendor has been informed ..

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ers-manohar-parrikar/articleshow/48390325.cms

 

[SajeevJino]

@Rikbo88

It seems the Government starts from beginning

 

[Zebra]

Well, here we are in August 2015 and still no contract. I am sure you all heard the MOD seems to be delaying, from what I hear due to the escalation in price from the 2011-2012 quotes provided. Don't know the details but as you all could surmise there is a cost escalation factor each year after when the proposal was provided which is normal and to be expected. If anyone has any other info please share on this forum. Sikorsky has indicated they would likely offer me a contracting position sometime after the contract is signed but who knows. I will also try contacting the same MOD contacts I tried 6 months ago to see if the MOD/IN might be interested in my services. Would love working with the IN customer but they also will likely do nothing until there is a signed contract. If anyone does have any MOD/IN contacts and could share them with me it would be greatly appreciated.

If I am not wrong, last time in a new report I saw, they were talking about huge price difference in-between flyaway cost and the contract price (price including everything).

On top of it, they wants Sikorsky to make these aircrafts in India, as they got another huge order.

 

[Rikbo88]

I don't believe any follow on orders have been placed. The initial 16+8 will be made in Stratford and if there is a large follow on order the MOD would require those be built in India, which Sikorsky is willing to do. Only cost differential I am aware of is the cost escalation due to the delay in awarding the program. The proposal would specify how long the quoted price would be valid for. The Indian government has no one to blame but themselves. Sikorsky was requested to extend the offer validity a number of times, which I believe they did once. But 3 years is just not realistic. I expect the MOD is also unhappy with the proposed delivery dates which are likely to be at least 36 months from contract signing. If the article @SajeevJino referenced is correct in that the MOD will not agree to any cost escalation, Sikorsky may walk away from this deal rather than lose money on a bad deal. I certainly hope all parties can come to an agreement. We also don't know what, if any, changes were requested by the MOD to the original proposal that would also drive cost increases.

 

[SajeevJino]

@Rikbo88 that article was extracted from the Minister's reply to the Parliament members

Actually the Government takes huge time to make contracts, the same delays and deadlines are set and postponed happens with the Boeing too, the AH 64 and CH 47 deadline passed twice,

It looks like government has no other good plans since for multi role S 70 B is the best choice to replace the Sea King

The sad truth of Indian Navy is the modern Destroyer like D 60, 61, 62 has good radar, But no towed Sonar, no Heliborne ASW, no good PDMS, also the ship itself comes with less destructive power only 16 Brahmos missile, Ive no idea how many of them can be Anti Ship role, how many land attack variant.

Also I think modern ships aren't out of Action it they take one or two rounds of Brahmos.

Actually It sucks, Navy is in very bad condition, since the total Defense believed the Navy in case of any war with my neighbors

 

[Bheeshma]

Not sure who told you that? ATLAS is being purchased and DRDO's ALTAS is already in testing. It will soon be deployed. Regarding PDMS the Barak-1 is effective enough. But it will need to be replaced.
Modern ships will have a mission kill as soon as struck by 1 Brahmos. It has enough KE to put the ships (including frigates & destroyers )out of action and into repair yard. There is no need to sink a ship.

 

[SajeevJino]

Not sure who told you that? ATLAS is being purchased and DRDO's ALTAS is already in testing. It will soon be deployed. .

Heard that India signed a deal with a foreign country ( don't remember it's name ), no idea about the DRDO TAS... might be comes late, or never come

Regarding PDMS the Barak-1 is effective enough. But it will need to be replaced.

Kolkatha has no PDMS, It's fully relies on the Barak 8 and the Four AK 630, But the Maitri timeline is not set

Modern ships will have a mission kill as soon as struck by 1 Brahmos. It has enough KE to put the ships (including frigates & destroyers )out of action and into repair yard. There is no need to sink a ship

The Missile need to strike the Command Center of the Ship, then only the ship will sitting in ducks, If it hits in the bow, The ship manages to fire it's weapons, Since CIWS is protecting the CC, I think Brahmos always looks the Bow