MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

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neo29

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Luftwaffe Grounds Eurofighter



The German Air Force has grounded its entire fleet of Eurofighter Typhoon fighters following the detection of glitches in the ejection seat, which, it turns out, cannot guarantee safe operation under certain conditions. Flying operations were suspended on September 15. Among the grounded aircraft will be the ones I photographed conducting training flights (see above) at the Luftwaffe's 73 Fighter Wing at Rostock-Laage airfield near Germany's Baltic coast in February. The grounding is reportedly connected with the August crash in which a Saudi pilot was killed in Spain.

The grounding comes just hours before EADS, the company that owns a controlling stake in the Eurofighter consortium, rebranded its defence business (EADS Defence & Security) as CASSIDIAN.

Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: Luftwaffe Grounds Eurofighter
 

keshtopatel

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Martin Baker ejection seat is the best in the world, dont know what exactly happened on that account.

Martin-Baker supplies ejection seats for 93 air forces worldwide. Since the first live ejection test in 1946, over 7,325 lives have been saved using a Martin-Baker ejection seat
 

Yusuf

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Really surprising that in todays day and age Martin Baker has absolute monopoly on ejection seats.
 

keshtopatel

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Really surprising that in todays day and age Martin Baker has absolute monopoly on ejection seats.

This British designed system is best in the world - Martin-Baker is the world's longest established and most experienced manufacturer of ejection seats.
 

keshtopatel

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Isnt there any competition to it?

Very little!
Chinese have thier own, but this rocket assisted ejection seat has beaten every other competion fairly.
It has virtual monopoly due to its superior proven product. It costs million dollar per seat (few years ago) Its a life saver, Pilot´s darling.
 

EagleOne

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Defence ministry goes slow on downlisting firms for aircraft deal

Despite getting gentle nudges from the government, the defence establishment does not seem to be ready for an early downlisting of the $10-billion 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract in which companies from the US, France and Russia are in the race. Sources told FE, "The field trial report of the six contenders has been sent to the director-general acquisition's office, who is expected to make recommendations and send it to the defence acquisition council (DAC) of the ministry of defence (MoD)."
"The DG's recommendations will not only be based on the field trial report but will also take into consideration the evaluation of the offset proposals of the six contenders. The Offset Technical Committee in the defence ministry has already initiated the process of evaluating the offset proposals," sources added.
They went on to clarify that they are under no pressure to downselect contenders prior to the visit of the US President Barack Obama, French President Nicholas Sarkozy and his wife Carla Bruni and the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
American companies, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, Boeing F/A-18, French Dassault Rafale, EADS Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen and Russian MiG-35 are in the running for the 126 aircraft deal which is expected to replace the ageing MiG-21s. According to sources, "Vendors who are compliant rule wise, Defence Procurement Policy and Technical offsets will ultimately be opened for consideration. Also, the lowest bidder, designated L1, will be selected as the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA)."
Once the contenders receive the evaluation of the Offset Technical Committee, the contenders for the MMRCA will give fresh offset proposals. After that, fresh recommendations will be sent to the defence ministry. Once the Cabinet Committee on Security gives the nod, negotiations between governments will begin, which could start early next year, sources added. The contenders have being invited to submit their offset plans and the IAF will meet different contenders to discuss flight evaluation reports once the field trials are complete. It may be noted that the IAF is considering "life-cycle costs" and not just the lowest bid for the MMRCA. The contract entails acquisition of 18 aircraft to be bought off-the-shelf and the rest to be manufactured in India under transfer of technology


Defence-ministry-goes-slow-on-downlisting-firms-for-aircraft-deal
http://www.financialexpress.com/new...n-downlisting-firms-for-aircraft-deal/683248/
 
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nrj

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^^ What? So contenders will be submitting their offset bid twice? This is going to be indeed hectic procedure. Lets wait for delays!
 

neo29

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If Indian establishemnt has long term plans to induct PAk Fa in 250 numbers and NGFA/FGFA in 250 numbers then surely buying an expensive fighter in MMRCA doesnt make sense. We may need cheap fighters that will work well for next 20 25 years or so by the time the 5th gen fighters are inducted in lots.

Going for expensive fighters and then spending huge money on 5th gen fighters might turn out to be expensive affair. India must tread carefully here to make the best decision. They might want a cheap and punching solution, and i cant believe i am saying this but Sh-18 will probably win.
 

luckyy

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50% offset interm of cost...

what is the % of TOT mandatery in mmrca tendor....??? is it 100%..
 
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luckyy

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Transfer of Technology (TOT): Myth or reality?
Transfer of Technology (TOT): Myth or reality?

Transfer of technology has been a buzz phrase in India for defense acquisitions since decades. So far India has little to show for all the technology transfers and license production that have taken place.

I have heard the phrase being bandied by politicians, bureaucrats and technocrats, since my school days, nearly 40 years ago.

India has been manufacturing MiG-21 variants since the 70s. Let alone developing a new aircraft based on the MiG-21, HAL was never able to even improve the aircraft in any way - Adding a dorsal fuel tank, for example, as in the MiG-21 Bis.

India designed and developed the Marut HF-24 in the late 1960's with assistance from German designer Dr. Kurt Tank and a lot of British help. HAL could never come up with a follow up.


We license produced the Jaguar? What good did that do? Where did the technology that was transferred go?

Whether transfer of technology works or not is linked to the technology base that a country has developed.

Talk to any DRDO official and they tell you the Russian never transfer technology.

At Aero India 2009 the DRDO chief publically termed Russian TOT as a farce.

What DRDO officials mean is that the Russians don't tell us how to build their products from scratch. The question is not only - Should they be telling you how to do so? - but also - Can they effectively tell how to do - considering that we do not have a technological base matching theirs?

A large amount of metal alloys and composites goes into an aircraft. The alloys used differ from each aircraft component. The strength of the metal varies with the manufacturing process used to produce it. When transferring technology should the manufacturer tell from where to source the metal or how to manufacture it? If your country hasn't mastered the manufacturing processes what good would that do?

Recently someone referred to the possible French and Swedish readiness to part with source code for their AESA radars. (I am not aware this is true.)

While getting the source code along with the radar helps, it cannot be construed as transfer of technology.

Anyone who has worked with software knows the complexities of imbibing code.

Any code is based on thousands and thousands of lines of library code. Is the library source also being offered? Even if it is being, you will need to spend months, possibly years, to understand its flow and logic.

How generic is the code? How much generic can it be? Hardware specific code tends to be less generic to facilitate faster development and processing. Reuse of code is also limited by continuous improvements in hardware and software.

Code that took 100 person years to develop cannot be mastered within one or two months, even if you deploy 2,000 people for hacking it, assuming the cost of deploying 2,000 top notch software professionals on the project makes economic sense.

The example, is applicable to most electronic components fitted on a fighter aircraft, each of which uses software.

No transfer of technology allows you to copy manufacture. You can only license produce the quantity negotiated. So the vendors hold back a lot of data, like wind tunnel and flight testing data that would make it easy to modify the aircraft.

Broadly speaking, with a TOT agreement in place, the manufacturer will share with you just enough information to allow sourcing non critical components from the domestic market, or certain acceptable foreign markets.

If we buy the Rafale, the French are not going to teach us how to build a fifth generation version of the Rafale.

Talking about French friendliness, here is a detail that I have mentioned elsewhere on this site. When they supplied us the Durandal runway denial bombs for use on the Jaguars, they missed out on a small detail that prevented the Jaguar from dropping it.

The IAF discovered the flaw years after acquiring the bombs, when Jaguars attempted to test fire them on a target runway in Pokharan for the first time.

Pre acquisition trials were conducted in France and since the bomb was so expensive IAF waited for the life of the first lot of bombs to nearly expire before testing them. Three Jaguars unsuccessfully attempted to release the bombs in front of the Defense minister, COAS and other top officials.

There were a lot of red faces that day, not just in the squadron tasked with the trials but right up the chain of command.

The software patch, when it arrived from France, took minutes.

the squadron was flying HAL manufactured Jaguars
 
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gogbot

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50% offset interm of cost...
Pretty much yes.

These offsets can be in the form of FDI's, Co-prodution and ToT.



More info:

Offset agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically instead of the government spending billions on Foreign defense industries , it ensure some of the money comes back into India in some form on investment.

what is the % of TOT mandatery in mmrca tendor....??? is it 100%..
It is not 100% , IAF has never stated how much ToT it actually wanted.
But presumably they want enough to perform maintenance and Production of parts in India. This make the logistics of operating the aircraft considerably cheaper and more time effective.
 

gogbot

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ToT is not leag forging as people expect it to be , it is more akin to foundation work , we would rather have it then not. ToT also holds more importance today then it did 20-30 years ago , with more financial resources , a stronger technological and industrial bases , as well as much larger defense sector , which also includes private players. It holds medium term benefits. We still need to produce and Maintain aircraft we buy and for that to happen ToT is crucial.

Also the Aesa source code offer from the French , is not so that we can use the radar tech. but so that IAF can change the Radar parameters when ever it wants. Other wise without ToT on Source code , Those parameters would have to be pre-programmed by the Supplier before giving it to the IAF.

ToT is important in the operation , maintenance and production of Systems we purchase , this in turn could help in future developments.

if not for the MKI ToT would it have been modified for Carrying the Brhamos.
 
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Daredevil

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Gripen over Burj Al Arab









Over Dubai Port



Over Palm Jumeirah

 

RAM

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MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief

Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik on Sunday said the contract for supply of 126 Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MCRA) to Indian Air Force will be signed soon. "Evaluation of six aircraft from the bidding companies has been completed and details have been submitted to the Ministry of Defence which is expected to take a final decision soon," Air Chief Marshal Naik told reporters on the sidelines of an event here.The IAF has been holding trials for its $10-billion Medium MCRA tenders in which Boeing and Lockheed Martin from U.S., French D'Assault, Swedish SAAB, European consortium EADS and Russian MiG are contenders.


"The evaluation report will be discussed by the Cabinet Committee on Security, after which the process of awarding contract would be initiated," he said.
He said that it would take another year to sign the contract and the delivery of first batch of 18 aircraft would be received within three years after the orders are placed.The Defence Ministry has allocated Rs. 42,000 crore for the purchase of 126 aircraft.

The Hindu : News / National : MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief
 
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