MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

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neo29

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India will want to have a formidable AF in the region and the world. It clearly knows the dangers of the huge number of fighter PLAAF has. Hence it will try to rope in the deadliest fighter among the lot to counter PLAAF air power. EF and Rafale are the only ones worthy.
 

Kunal Biswas

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India will want to have a formidable AF in the region and the world. It clearly knows the dangers of the huge number of fighter PLAAF has. Hence it will try to rope in the deadliest fighter among the lot to counter PLAAF air power. EF and Rafale are the only ones worthy.
PLAAF have not only number but quality too, If any small scale war erupt in near future than we may see PLAAF J10/J11/MKK against our IAF MRCA/MKI..
 

Kunal Biswas

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What quality would that be?
@Armand,
It is true that PLAAF fighters have the much needed quality they required, for example:

1. Capability of making PGM strikes also conducting SEAD missions with KH-31p..
2. Ability of firing BVRs like R-77..
3. Good cockpits with multiple MFDs..


Now these are the qualities of following fighter which are J10/J11/MKKs..
To counter such thread in present situation IAF have MKI / MIG-21 bisons / MIR-2000..
In Near future we may have MRCA/MKI also updated MIRs/MIGs..
 
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Armand2REP

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@Armand,
It is true that PLAAF fighters have the much needed quality they required, for example:

1. Capability of making PGM strikes also conducting SEAD missions with KH-31p..
2. Ability of firing BVRs like R-77..
3. Good cockpits with multiple MFDs..


Now these are the qualities of following fighter which are J10/J11/MKKs..
To counter such thread in present situation IAF have MKI / MIG-21 bisons / MIR-2000..
In Near future we may have MRCA/MKI also updated MIRs/MIGs..
PLAAF is made up of quantity, not quality. The majority of their AF is J-7. They are so far behind the times they just retired MiG-19 copies. The Kh-31P they have is only designed for Taiwanese radars. The Russians did not want PLAAF having the ability to turn around and use it against them. India is quite safe from it. PGM includes Soviet era LGBs, not really stand-off in a high SAM threat. Only Su-30MKKs can use the R-77, the Su-27SKs (J-11) do not have the software. Chinese avionics are terrible. There isn't much quality there except in the PLAN squadrons of Su-30MK2s, but those are facing Taiwan.
 

arya

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well don't you guys think we are lacking in both quality and quantity

MMRCA don't know when will we select any plane and when they will inducted we waste more then 6 years if i am not wrong to select a plane

we have only su30mki and nothing as compare to them and its really shocking Russia is playing same game as they play with AC for our navy first delay then ask more money
 

arya

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PLAAF is made up of quantity, not quality. The majority of their AF is J-7. They are so far behind the times they just retired MiG-19 copies. The Kh-31P they have is only designed for Taiwanese radars. The Russians did not want PLAAF having the ability to turn around and use it against them. India is quite safe from it. PGM includes Soviet era LGBs, not really stand-off in a high SAM threat. Only Su-30MKKs can use the R-77, the Su-27SKs (J-11) do not have the software. Chinese avionics are terrible. There isn't much quality there except in the PLAN squadrons of Su-30MK2s, but those are facing Taiwan.
well sir i hope you know Chinese are not using su30mkk they are using su30Su-30MKK2 the new upgraded version

never underestimate your enemy
 

arya

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PLAAF is made up of quantity, not quality. The majority of their AF is J-7. They are so far behind the times they just retired MiG-19 copies. The Kh-31P they have is only designed for Taiwanese radars. The Russians did not want PLAAF having the ability to turn around and use it against them. India is quite safe from it. PGM includes Soviet era LGBs, not really stand-off in a high SAM threat. Only Su-30MKKs can use the R-77, the Su-27SKs (J-11) do not have the software. Chinese avionics are terrible. There isn't much quality there except in the PLAN squadrons of Su-30MK2s, but those are facing Taiwan.
well sir i hope you know Chinese are not using su30mkk they are using su30Su-30MKK2 the new upgraded version

never underestimate your enemy
 

vikramrana_1812

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They are using Su-30MKK...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK

Never estimate your enemy without knowing the facts.
never under estimate China...they are stronger, have more missiles and fighter aircrafts..

THE fact is if China attacks India then we WONT BE ABLE TO USE our MKI's because they are going to destroy each and every airbase in INDIA before declaring WAR...... To fight China we dont need MKI's....WE need Deep Striking Missiles Thats IT....otherwise forget it....india wont be able to stand for long if war broke out with CHina....


It is a fact...accept it friends...i am an Indian ..I also hate to accept this but it is truth....
 

Kunal Biswas

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The Kh-31P they have is only designed for Taiwanese radars. The Russians did not want PLAAF having the ability to turn around and use it against them. India is quite safe from it.
Beside PLAAF not only have KH-31p ( 3 seekers ) But also Yj-91 which use different seekers for different bands..


PGM includes Soviet era LGBs, not really stand-off in a high SAM threat.
IAF, PLAAF, and USAF idea of SEAD mission is different, the SEAD mission for us to take out the radar, where french concentrate to take out SAM launcher on ground, In sam thread the first phase is the termination of SAMs, An airfield is a good example..

Only Su-30MKKshttp://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/12796-MRCA-News-amp-Dicussions-(IV)-Rumors-on-which-A-Cs-make-the-cut-fly-thick-amp-fast!/page37 can use the R-77, the Su-27SKs (J-11) do not have the software.
We have R-77s and we made these missle to fire from MIG-21s, i doubt why Chinese cant do this..

never under estimate China...they are stronger, have more missiles and fighter aircrafts..

THE fact is if China attacks India then we WONT BE ABLE TO USE our MKI's because they are going to destroy each and every airbase in INDIA before declaring WAR...... To fight China we dont need MKI's....WE need Deep Striking Missiles Thats IT....otherwise forget it....india wont be able to stand for long if war broke out with CHina....


It is a fact...accept it friends...i am an Indian ..I also hate to accept this but it is truth....
@vikramrana,
They are same like us, IAF keep good surveillance in northeast with A-50s and various Radar units which also include Army AD units, We are not weak, MKI are best strike and Air-dominance fighter that IAF have, even China take IAF seriously if not Army, IAF is the most powerful AF in southeast Asia, this credit goes to pilot training and the Aircraft we have Including MIG-21bisons...

Now what was my piont: PLAAF is rapidly improving its quality ( J-10/J11/MKKS), As for example, 10 years back their Army was in stone-age, look them at now..
 
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luckyy

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never under estimate China...they are stronger, have more missiles and fighter aircrafts.

primery fectorts to decide a war is quality.
quality of equipments
quality of traning
qualiy of statagy

numbers are secondry......

coming to missiles , it will not going to dicide who has more missles but the who has better intercepter systems to distroy the incoimg ones..
 

vikramrana_1812

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primery fectorts to decide a war is quality.
quality of equipments
quality of traning
qualiy of statagy

numbers are secondry......

coming to missiles , it will not going to dicide who has more missles but the who has better intercepter systems to distroy the incoimg ones..
your Points - Answers

quality of equipments - China have better defece shield and counter attack capabilites
quality of traning - they are closing in our LAC whereas we are sitting 50-100 kms behind LAC...Its called training with advance modern facilities that they enjoy over us..
qualiy of statagy - What strategy?...you mean India is planning any strategy by making 1 airbase in tezpur to counter Cjinese 23 airbases with india...IT IS A SUICIDE MISSION FOR OUR BRAVE PILOTS..It is not startegy..it is stupidity to open One AIRBASE...if we open atleast 10 then yes IT IS CALLED STRATEGY....Chinese are closing in their Missiles and Rail/Road facilities and armaments...what we are Doing...COMPLAINING AND WINNING SYMPATHY FROM UN MEMBERS..It is not strategy..It is WEAKNESS.
numbers are secondry......

[B]coming to missiles , it will not going to dicide who has more missles but the who has better intercepter systems to distroy the incoimg ones..[/B]

You say If chinese fire their India centric missiles in all cities and airbases, military and political bases at once then our Interceptor missiles is going to stop it....the answer is NO NO NO......i We dont have enough interceptor missiles to defend ouself from the 1000 + missiles coming to hit you....india only have few 100 of interceptor missiles.. i.e Pakistan Centric Strategy....

We cannot match China in any form of war ....It is the truth..except it...we dont have to fight for False theories of India defending itself from China....to go on war with China ..we need to behave LIKE ONE....by doing nothing we are sitting DUCKS.
 
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vikramrana_1812

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India vs China on Military Strength - Conventional and Nuclear

As two rising Asian powers with high GDP growths and increasing geo-political influence, India and China have been arch rivals in their race to superpowerdom. The race for regional dominance between these two countries has also spawned a race for militarisation, with India sparing no efforts to match China's military might. A comparative analysis is therefore overdue, to see how India and China fare against each other in their military strengths.


China's military capability displayed in 'PEACE MISSION 2005' joint exercise with Russia (Click on video to play)

According to United States DoD (Department of Defense) reports for 2006, China's military expenditure is estimated to be 80 billion US dollars. However, the official Chinese CPC government quote is a $30 billion military expenditure (which a lot of analysts believe is underquoted). The actual Chinese military capabilities and budget are shrouded in deep secrecy to prevent foreign countries having an idea of its military might"¦and perhaps to create the strategic advantage of uncertainity. If we were to go by the conservative official Chinese figure of $30 billion, it would put China second only to USA in global military spending. On the other side, India's official military expenditure for 2006 is quoted at $22 billion by the Ministry of Finance (India) Budget (2006-2007). India however, does not keep a level of secrecy as cloaked as China does, as its democratic government system requires public accountability. By its official 2006 military budget figures, India stands at 9th position in global military spending.



India's supersonic PJ-10 BrahMos developed jointly by Russia and is the fastest cruise missile with a top speed of Mach 2.8 (~ three times faster than US' Tomahawk)

In 2006 India's active military personell numbered over 1,325,000 while China was significantly higher at 2,255,000. In air defence, China's PLA (People's Liberation Army) Air Force has 9,218 aircrafts of which about 2300 are combat aircrafts, operating from its 489+ air bases. The Indian Air Force has 3382 aircrafts which includes 1335 combat aircrafts operating from 334+ bases and its sole aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The air superiority in China's PLAAF is maintained by its fleet of Russian Su-30 MK and indigenously built J-10 fighters. Indian Air Force, on the other hand has French built Dassault Mirage 2000s and Russian Su-30 MKI as the best aircrafts in its combat fleet (no indigenous fighters or aircrafts have been deployed by India so far). Indian Navy is the world's eighth largest navy with a with a fleet of 145 vessels consisting of missile-capable warships, advanced submarines, the latest naval aircrafts and an aircraft carrier in its inventory. It is experienced both in combat and rescue operations during wartime and peace as seen from its wars with Pakistan in 1971, the December 2004 Tsunami, etc. In comparison, China's PLA Navy with its fleet of 284 vessels is quantitatively larger but lacking in actual war experience, which could undermine its strategic capability. As of 2007, China has no aircraft carriers in its naval fleet but is slated to build and induct an aircraft carrier by 2010.



In strategic nuclear defence and delivery systems, China's PLA is miles ahead of India's nuclear forces. The PLA's stockpile is estimated to have 200-400 active nuclear warheads. In comparison, India's strategic nuclear force is estimated to have stockpiled about 50-70 nuclear warheads. The most powerful warhead tested by India had an yield of 0.05 megatons which is quite small compared to China's highest yield of 4 megatons. India's nuclear delivery system consists of bombers, supersonic cruise missiles and medium range ballistic missiles. Agni 2, India's longest range deployed ballistic missile is capable of a range of 2500 km, carrying a single nuclear warhead of ~1000 kg. In stark contrast, China's nuclear delivery system is far more capable with multiple warhead (MIRV) ICBMs like DF-5A [12000+ km] and DF-4 [7500+ km]. It also fields submarine launched SLBMs like JL-2 [8500+ km] and strategic fighter bombers like Su-27 Flanker in its nuclear delivery arsenal.


Economic theory teaches us that incentives drive decision making by a nation or an individual. In case of India, a democracy with no serious military adversary, its militarisation drive is often overshadowed by internal militancy issues and political struggles. In case of a communist China, it has a powerful military adversary in United States; the conflicts over Taiwan give China a strong incentive to beef up its military defence to counter the US military might. The situation is much similar to that of USSR vs USA Cold War, albeit on a much smaller scale. The end result is China walking far ahead of India in military might with overpowering superiority if both conventional and nuclear forces are taken into account.

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/india-vs-china-military-conventional-nuclear
 
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vikramrana_1812

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'India's missile tech a decade behind that of China'

Despite India's advances in missile technology, the country is still a decade behind China, a top Chinese defence analyst has claimed and asserted that Beijing does not view New Delhi as its "strategic rival."

Shrugging off concerns that newer versions of India's Agni missiles could strike the northernmost tips of China, the state-run Global Times, quoting a top analyst said India may take five more years to achieve this capability.

The analyst also dismissed the claims that India is far ahead of China in developing interceptor technology, the paper said this week, days after India tested the Agni- III, which has a 3,500 km range.

Chinese Rear Admiral Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor at the prestigious Chinese National Defence University, said India is still 10 to 15 years behind China in terms of missile technology.

"It's still unknown when the Agni-III will be deployed by the Indian army, though they claim the missile is ready for use. And it might take at least another five years to ready the Agni-V," Zhang was quoted as saying.

He also claimed that China did not see India as a strategic rival, and developed weapons to counter it.

"In developing its military technology, China has never taken India as a strategic rival, and none of its weapons were specifically designed to contain India," the Global Times quoted Zhang as saying.

"After Agni III and Agni V, as far as cities in China and Pakistan are concerned, there will be no target that we want to hit but can't hit," DRDO chief V K Saraswat had said.

Earlier this week, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu had described China's ties with India as "friendly and cooperative" and said both countries did not pose mutual threat.

"I don't want to interpret or comment on the reports," Ma said when asked to comment on the February seven launch of Agni-III which put China's major cities within its strike range.

"The China-India relation is friendly and cooperative. China will not be a threat to India, and nor will India pose a threat to China," Ma said.

India is set to test within a year an Agni-V nuclear- capable missile with a range of more than 5,000 kilometres, Saraswat, had said.

"We feel our accuracy is better than China's DF 21," Saraswat had said of the Agni-III, which was test launched on February 7.

The DF-21 is China's mid-range missile that debuted in 1999, along with its intercontinental ballistic missile, the DF- 31, which the army utilises.

Zhang also dismissed Saraswat's assertion that India was ahead of China in the area of ballistic missile defence (BMD).

Zhang said the BMD accounts for only part of India's interception system, which also encompasses early-warning and guidance.

"India's technology for its measurement and control system, which is used to trace launched missiles, remains at a very low level, and they are unable to constitute a complete and reliable missile defense system," Zhang claimed.

Beijing test-fired its first missile interception system last month, and successfully tested its anti-satellite system in 2007.

The United States and Russia are the only two countries that have actually deployed missile-interceptor technology.



Read more: 'India's missile tech a decade behind that of China' - India - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...f-China/articleshow/5572984.cms#ixzz0wxD9yIkW
 

luckyy

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Despite India's advances in missile technology, the country is still a decade behind China, a top Chinese defence analyst has claimed .
.
"We feel our accuracy is better than China's DF 21," Saraswat had said of the Agni-III, which was test launched on February 7.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-missile-tech-a-decade-behind-that-of-China/articleshow/5572984.cms#ixzz0wxD9yIkW[/url]
both sides claming....

i belive what Saraswat saying ....
 

Armand2REP

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never under estimate China...they are stronger, have more missiles and fighter aircrafts..

THE fact is if China attacks India then we WONT BE ABLE TO USE our MKI's because they are going to destroy each and every airbase in INDIA before declaring WAR...... To fight China we dont need MKI's....WE need Deep Striking Missiles Thats IT....otherwise forget it....india wont be able to stand for long if war broke out with CHina....


It is a fact...accept it friends...i am an Indian ..I also hate to accept this but it is truth....
When China goes to war, they will not attack the Sub-continent, they will attack the LOC. It is a limited war they want, not the destruction of India. They couldn't get through the mountains to do it before India mobalised. Their missiles are not accurate enough to take out Indian air bases unless they expend them all on a select few targets.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I hope to see those MRCA phasing out old MIG-21FL and MIG-27Ms, Its true that IAF poor infrastructure in NE, but it was solved by placing more AAA as temporary measure..

So for mighty PLAAF advancing on NE may find the sky similar to hell`s description!
Btw, Our people need to get those MRCA as soon as possible..
 
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arya

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guys we waste 6 years to select plane for India is that funny i don't know how much money we waste

cant we select a plane don't we have expert or who are getting benefit in wasting time

china told Russia to delay all the Indian deal you can see all deals are delaying and they are asking more money
 

pankaj nema

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The Obama visit has complicated matters. India cannot declare that American planes have been "rejected" just before the visit.
It will be diplomatic harakiri .It is just not done.

Once we reject the Russian plane Mig 35 ,then After Obama's visit we can announce the rejection of American planes also.
And then quickly negotiate with RAfale and Eurofighter to announce the winner before June 30 2011.

That date has been tentatively fixed for declaring a winner.
 
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