Mountain Strike Corps - 17

[Hari Sud]

Kunal Biswas --- are you Chinese? Because your conclusion of 2 million men is just like Chinese economic statistics.

With data like this you sure have lost credibility.

I am not an army man. But I know that, a company consists of 132 men, a battalion of about 7-800 men, a brigade of 3,500 men and either three or four brigades make a division, two or three division make corps. Mountain divisions are a bit smaller and mostly foot mobile for their contact with the enemy. Tanks and artillery are for intimimidation in the mountains unless you catch the enemy on a flat ground. Rifleman's best friend is not a tank or long range artillery but a heavy mortar. Then how the hell did you get a figure of 2 million.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

India's new mountain corps can't match China's military capabilities across LAC

NEW DELHI: India may not place any major component of the proposed mountain strike corps in Arunachal Pradesh as part of an effort not to further aggravate the tenuous ties with China. Army sources, however, also point out that militarily too it won't be a wise strategy to place any key component of the offensive arm close to the line of actual control (LAC).

The proposed corps would be India's first offensive corps with mountain warfare capabilities and the fourth strike corps. However, by no means would it match China's aggressive military capabilities and infrastructure across the LAC.

The proposal for raising the strike corps has been hanging fire for the past several years, and had been delayed primarily because of financial considerations. Simultaneously, India is also trying to create a modern infrastructure close to the border, both for improving civilian connectivity and military movement.

The CCS, headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, on Wednesday approved the long-pending proposal of the Army to create its first mountain strike corps, meant for offensive operations across China border, at a budget of over Rs 64,000 crore in about seven years.

Terming as "pragmatic" the government's decision to raise a mountain strike corps along the Chinese border, external affairs minister Salman Khurshid on Thursday said the country prepares for peace as much as for "tough" times.

"In national interest, we will do whatever needs to be done at the appropriate level. We work for peace as much as for tough times," he said, adding that the government takes "steps whenever necessary".

Speaking on the sidelines of an art exhibition, he added, "We live in a world which combines principles with pragmatism ... we also maintain a rational, decent balance in our policies."

According to available indications, the government is not inclined to place any major component of the strike corps in Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims to be southern Tibet and a disputed territory. Indian activities in Arunachal have been touchy for China for long, and New Delhi wouldn't want to create any further damage to its already tenuous ties with Beijing.

The tricky Arunachal issue could also be avoided because the Army wouldn't be inclined to place any major component of the strike corps so close to the border. Formations of the corps would likely be based in West Bengal, Assam, Odisha and Jharkhand. In some of these states fresh land may have to be acquired, in other places the Army already has enough land to accommodate the new formations, sources said.

As of now the plan is to headquarter the corps at Panagarh in West Bengal, but a final decision would be taken after the government sanction comes through.

The corps would have two infantry divisions trained in mountain warfare, one air defence brigade, two artillery brigades, one each engineering and aviation brigades. While the artillery brigades could be looking at inducting ultra light howitzers, the aviation brigade could boast of attack helicopters and Boeing's heavy lift helicopter Chinooks.

In recent years, India has been making steady efforts to improve its military capability along the LAC. Indian Army has already raised two new infantry divisions at Lekhapani and Missamari in Assam in recent times.

This is the sorry state of the GoI. It feels that there is no use of raising the new corps division as they (the corps) would be no match for the aggressive chinese PLA and their infrastructure on the chinese side and even after developing the force they will not stationed in Arunachal or anywhere close to the LAC as it will make the chinese even more angry.....

A very weak response by the external affairs minister Mr.Salman Khurshid, he says"Terming as "pragmatic" the government's decision to raise a mountain strike corps along the Chinese border, external affairs minister Salman Khurshid on Thursday said the country prepares for peace as much as for "tough" times."

A very weak posture by the GoI, which is underestimating itself and giving in to enemy even before the enemy says something....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-new-mountain-corps-cant-match-Chinas-military-capabilities-across-LAC/articleshow/21148212.cms

 

[Hari Sud]

Nowhere in the above article Sesha _murthy it explains why the Chinese are so superior that there peace time 10 to 14 divisions can invade India any time and have a walk over. Any quality infrastructure close to the border is the figment of imagination of the pro-Chinese, Army analysts in India. They have a slight advantage wherever there is flat land in 2,400 miles border. Anywhere the Chinese run into mountains their infrastructure advantge is dramatically reduced. Thag La Ridge/ Taiwan type of possibility is next to impossible as under these circumstances their supply trains would have to travel the same mountains and with great difficulty as Indian Army faces everyday now.

No Chinese are not that stupid to leave their protected environment on other side ofbthe flat land of Tibet and begin climbing the mountains and begin a well equipped and well trained Indian Army waiting to anhilate them. Again they are not that stupid to risk a defeat and loose a face in the eyes of the world.

The net impact is that they will posture a lot. That is what generals do when they run out of other things to do. Indian strike Corp is there to posture when ever the Chinese think of a match. That is the purpose of the strike corp. Again theynare not that stupid to risk loosing aface.

Hence my advice to you that Indian press, other media and analysts have a big mouth. They lack self confidence and tailor stories of allmighty Chinese on the norhern border. Do not pay too much attention to it. The military analyst system is funded by the arms merchants in Delhi. The only way they make a lot of money is to scare the hell out of you and sell you more guns of dubious kind.

Trust me that the Chinese are as scared of this strike corp as anybody. They fear that their time of staging minor incrusion like the latest one in Ladakh is over. They are scared that if Indian tanks and infantry sieze a part of Tibet in direct retaliation of their move elsewhere for example at the Finger Lake area in north Sikkim, they would loose face. No matter how good is their infrastructure it helps but does not prevent a aggressive Indian response.

That is their delima.

If you get any thought that Chinese can increase the size of their garrison in Tibet then think again. The present infrastructure in Tibet is insufficient to handle any more than 240,000 troops and support troops they have now. That is insufficent to invade India - good infrastructure or not. They cannot add more as they are aware that one rail line which connects to China passes over perma frost which is kept refrigerted to make it work. One Indian move to melt that permafrost and Chinese troops would be without food, fuel and ammunition. Under the circumstances, Chinese would never escalate the fight because no armies wish to loose face.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Hari Sud,

You are ISI :0

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About numbers >>

We have plan for two Strike crop, One now another under consideration, first posted during 2010-11..

1 x STRIKE CROP = 6 DIVISIONS each Div have 14000 troops = 84,000

And another 50,000 additional troops will be deployed as per link Above, these 50,000 are not part of strike crop..

Btw, There is already 1 million strong Army defending eastern front, My calculation was based on strike crops only..

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About Supporting Units >>

A > Artillery is very effective over mountains, Proved over Kargil against Pakistanis so does during 1967 against Chinese, 70% casualty is coz of arty..

B > Light Tanks over mountains are also effective as they provide long range and heavy fire support, Used in 1962 against Chinese in the same sectors where we are about to re-deploy light tanks..

C > Mortars falls under Infantry Only not under Arty units..

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Read, Learn then Post and Avoid low quality arguments..

Kunal Biswas --- are you Chinese? Because your conclusion of 2 million men is just like Chinese economic statistics.

With data like this you sure have lost credibility.

Mountain divisions are a bit smaller and mostly foot mobile for their contact with the enemy.

Tanks and artillery are for intimimidation in the mountains unless you catch the enemy on a flat ground.

Rifleman's best friend is not a tank or long range artillery but a heavy mortar.

Then how the hell did you get a figure of 2 million.

 

[Hari Sud]

Kunal Biswas

I would not argue on your errors in numbers, bur have been reading press report on approval by Cabinet Committee for the strike corp. It says clearly two division with one brigade of artillery and tanks each.

So where does that number of 6 division came from?

Mountain divisions are smaller; they are not 14,000 troops but more likely 10,000. It includes support troops but not supply.

The strike corps conversation have been on going since 2011. There is only one approved none more planned. It is not war time now.

Indian Army is 1.1 million total. Where does that number of 1 million defending the eastern front comes from.

Relook completely before you begin arguing.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

China force signals birth of eastern decade

New Delhi, July 18: The raising of the China-specific mountain strike corps, approved by the Union government yesterday, is set to transform eastern India into the largest and most active military theatre over the next decade.

This does not immediately foretell an increase in hostilities along the undemarcated frontier with China. But it does translate into a flurry of activity that will mean the setting up of new, and expansion of existing, military cantonments in Bengal, Bihar, Jharkhand, Odisha and Assam, recruitment and capital acquisitions totalling more than Rs 65,000 crore over seven years.

To begin with, the Army Headquarters is forming about 20 project management teams for the eastern region, possibly under three garrison chief engineers, to identify land and create the infrastructure to shelter the Mountain Strike Corps (MSC).

The Fort William, Calcutta, headquarters of the Eastern Command, currently has three corps under it — 33 (headquartered in Sukna, north Bengal, and operationally tasked in Sikkim and parts of Bhutan and north Bengal), 3 (at Rangapahar near Dimapur, Nagaland, and operationally tasked for both border security on the China, Myanmar and Bangladesh frontiers and for counter-insurgency) and 4 (Tezpur-headquartered and operationally tasked for counter-insurgency, the Arunachal and Bangladesh frontiers).

Although the MSC would be tasked for offensive operations on the China frontier in the east and the Northeast, its headquarters, divisions, brigades and battalions would be located in depth areas away from the border but close enough for the fighting units to be transported at short notice.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Army to have Apache attack choppers in Mountain Strike Corps on China border - Indian Express

 

[W.G.Ewald]

India's new mountain corps can't match China's military capabilities across LAC - The Times of India

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You have been not following the subject properly from open media only, You Ideas and Views are from recent updates unlike mine..

That It takes to make a Strike crop, that is exactly written above, If you have any relative in Army you can ask him..

About supply _______ They are also included as part of any group itself just like EME, AMC and others..

It is funny trying to raise a strike crop in times of war, One cannot..

Indian army is more than 2 million strong, 1.1 million you talk is active or reserve ??

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You don't know, You ask, Ask nicely..

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I think @Ray Sir can shed some light on Mountain infantry strength vs Regular infantry at plains

As far as i have known they are more or less same but training is different..

Kunal Biswas

I would not argue on your errors in numbers, bur have been reading press report on approval by Cabinet Committee for the strike corp. It says clearly two division with one brigade of artillery and tanks each.

So where does that number of 6 division came from?

Mountain divisions are smaller; they are not 14,000 troops but more likely 10,000. It includes support troops but not supply.

The strike corps conversation have been on going since 2011. There is only one approved none more planned. It is not war time now.

Indian Army is 1.1 million total. Where does that number of 1 million defending the eastern front comes from.

Relook completely before you begin arguing.

Kunal Biswas --- are you Chinese? Because your conclusion of 2 million men is just like Chinese economic statistics.

With data like this you sure have lost credibility.

I am not an army man. But I know that, a company consists of 132 men, a battalion of about 7-800 men, a brigade of 3,500 men and either three or four brigades make a division, two or three division make corps. Mountain divisions are a bit smaller and mostly foot mobile for their contact with the enemy. Tanks and artillery are for intimimidation in the mountains unless you catch the enemy on a flat ground. Rifleman's best friend is not a tank or long range artillery but a heavy mortar. Then how the hell did you get a figure of 2 million.

 

[pmaitra]

What we should care about is the number of men.

Division, what is a division? I take it as 10,000 men, but the size can be way off that number, both above and below.

Also, AFAIK, Indian infantry divisions are not very different in strength, whether they are meant for mountains or plains.

 

[Ray]

Inf Divs about 16000 plus.and Mountain Division is about 15000 plus

There is a difference in the number of vehicles and equipment.

Mtn Div has AT Coys in addition.

 

[Hari Sud]

Admin

Close this thread. There is a misinformation galore in this thread and it certainly not mine.

 

[Bhadra]

Admin

Close this thread. There is a misinformation galore in this thread and it certainly not mine.

Do not be harsh..

Children are learning....

A Corps would comprise of minimum two divisions and maximum four divisions . Four divisional offensive operations would be maximum a Corps in mountains would be able to coordinate and handle with its integral recourses.

In defensive operations, with large or extended frontages, a corps is barely able to mange two divisional fronts defensive operations with its resources and reserves.

So mountain Strike Corps, we take it, logically would comprise minimum of :

Two mountain Divisions
One Artillery division
One aviation Brigade
One Armored / Mechanized Brigade.
One engineer Brigade

One AD Brigade

Two to three Transport Battalions
Two to three Mule battalions

Two to three Poineer Companies.


Up to two additional divisions can be attached to this outfit for operation from outside resources.. if the need be.

 

[sayareakd]

I think raw should add equal numbers to irregulars and ssb each, just in case for covert operations behind enemy lines. They have got vey good infrastructure which needs to be taken care off.

 

[Bhadra]

I think raw should add equal numbers to irregulars and ssb each, just in case for covert operations behind enemy lines. They have got vey good infrastructure which needs to be taken care off.

Such things are not spoken of nor mentioned.....

Sasatra Seema Bal is a regular Police Force and not under RAW...

 

[LalTopi]

I think raw should add equal numbers to irregulars and ssb each, just in case for covert operations behind enemy lines. They have got vey good infrastructure which needs to be taken care off.

Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Kunal Biswas

I would not argue on your errors in numbers, bur have been reading press report on approval by Cabinet Committee for the strike corp. It says clearly two division with one brigade of artillery and tanks each.

So where does that number of 6 division came from?

Mountain divisions are smaller; they are not 14,000 troops but more likely 10,000. It includes support troops but not supply.

The strike corps conversation have been on going since 2011. There is only one approved none more planned. It is not war time now.

Indian Army is 1.1 million total. Where does that number of 1 million defending the eastern front comes from.

Relook completely before you begin arguing.

Kunal bhai is from a military background and please do not believe in any press reports...

This post is not my article or comments. This was given by the security experts in INDIA........

I had even posted the link and understand these are not my own views......

I just posted an article from the news.......

So, do not do any personal attacks on me.......

stop this attitude of personal attacks....

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Some new members are posting cheap posts, i request the mods to take care of the cheap posts which do not have any proper understanding about the thread and are some what like personal attacks.......

 

[LalTopi]

Looks like Mr Li Keqiang did us a huge favour with the recent border excursion by China. Nothing could have done better to force our politicians hands into agreeing the Strike Corps. Excellent Chineses diplomacy, long may it continue across all their borders and South China Sea.

 

[mikhail]

You have been not following the subject properly from open media only, You Ideas and Views are from recent updates unlike mine..

That It takes to make a Strike crop, that is exactly written above, If you have any relative in Army you can ask him..

About supply _______ They are also included as part of any group itself just like EME, AMC and others..

It is funny trying to raise a strike crop in times of war, One cannot..

Indian army is more than 2 million strong, 1.1 million you talk is active or reserve ??

----------

You don't know, You ask, Ask nicely..

==================
==================

I think @Ray Sir can shed some light on Mountain infantry strength vs Regular infantry at plains

As far as i have known they are more or less same but training is different..

Sir,the problem with the chinis is that they consider their PLA much superior than the Indian Army in both training and in equipment and they dream of capturing the entire North Eastern India by cutting off the Siliguri Corridor in a swift offensive using their airborne troops and the funny thing is that most of the Indian people have started believing this crap due to the combined effort of the Indian media and the chini propaganda!
the thing that they don't understand is that the Indian Army has already thought of this kind of a situation and has taken ample measures to counter this possible "airborne" offensive by the PLA.the whole of the Eastern Command based in Kolkata is committed to fight off the chinis and the Amry has got major bases in the northern part of West Bengal(the biggest being tghe Panagarh base).similarly the IAF has got bases in Panagarh,Bagdogra and in Hasimara in Siliguri district(2 squadrons of Mig-27 are present in this base alone).so IAF can provide effective CAS in case of a rapid airborne offensive made by the PLA.plus the civilian population in this area is extremely pro-Indian and the chinis will feel the heat once they have landed their airborne forces in this region.plus there is a large contingent of S.S.B. present in Siliguri district which will definitely come into play in this regard:cool2:.
personally i don't think the chinis will risk so many dangers just to mount an early offensive because the terrain will definitely prove hostile to them!
Offtopic:-Sir you said that the I.A. has more than 2 million men under its command,so is this both active and reserve strength combined or is it only the active no. of personnel in the I.A.(because everywhere in the net it says that the I.A. has around 1.13 million active troops under its command)?