Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[cyclops]

INDIAN ARMY FLOATS RFI FOR 56,000 II(40,000) & TI(16,000) BASED NIGHT SIGHT FOR 7.62×51 ASSAULT RIFLES.

The TI sight options fits the ARJUN uncooled shutterless thermal imager by Tonbo Imaging to a tee.

 

[mohitbhagat]

Does this mean CQB tender cancelled?

Nope 4.5 lakhs carbines will come

 

[Gessler]

AK-203...

............................................

 

[sthf]

Sirji you are saying like every foreign country every company is already qualified.
I can't understand what is the problem atleast two met standard.

Nope, I am saying why the hell are clowns of OFB making life hell for everyone involved except themselves?

 

[Vinod DX9]

AK-203 will be manufactured under Make In India on Indian Soil

 

[Killswitch]

I'm hoping for the following:

All border troops get the Sig 716 G2 (IA, BSF, ITBP, etc). The rest of the troops like the CRPF, support, etc, should get the AK 203. I personally see no need for 556 carbines. 556 doesn't have the killing power required for Indias needs.

 

[Gessler]

I'm hoping for the following:

All border troops get the Sig 716 G2 (IA, BSF, ITBP, etc). The rest of the troops like the CRPF, support, etc, should get the AK 203. I personally see no need for 556 carbines. 556 doesn't have the killing power required for Indias needs.

The key advantage of 5.56 is how light the carbines that fire them are. And how manageable the recoil is. How accurate a good 5.56 carbine can be even out to a longer range.

Please do not have the misconception that 5.56x45 is some kind of wimpy round. It's not. Agreed that a 7.62x39 can be much more devastating in close quarters, but while its a more powerful round for CQB, it's not always a good idea. Aspects like penetration of walls are double-edged swords.

A trained shooter with a good magnifier can place killshots with 5.56 out to 300+ meters with great accuracy. I do believe that Indian forces have been unable to leverage the full advantages of the 5.56 rounds so far owing to an acute lack of interface systems and scope options for the service issue INSAS, and the sheer weight of the rifle as opposed to the hitting power it offers. Hopefully that will change with the CAR816.

Indian regular forces have so far have not really had an M4A1 analogue service issue weapon. The INSAS is not an M4A1 analogue. It's an M16A2 analogue...a heavier, uglier, less reliable M16A2, with 10 rounds less in the magazine. No wonder CI/CT forces hated it and wholeheartedly preferred the lighter, full auto AKs instead.

 

[Gessler]

Soon....

It's ta-ta and goodbye for INSAS!

Whew! Didn't think it'll happen in my lifetime!

 

[Narasimh]

AK 203 discussion...........................

 

[Gessler]

AK 203 discussion...........................

What's worrying to me is that not one panel member seems to distinguish between 7.62x51 Nato and 7.62x39 M43 (Kalashnikov).

Additionally, the retired Maj. Gen. seems to not know that INSAS can indeed take a UBGL. Albeit it requires removal of lower handguard (like on M4/M16) unlike as on AK where no such removal is necessary.

 

[ALBY]

What's worrying to me is that not one panel member seems to distinguish between 7.62x51 Nato and 7.62x39 M43 (Kalashnikov).

Additionally, the retired Maj. Gen. seems to not know that INSAS can indeed take a UBGL. Albeit it requires removal of lower handguard (like on M4/M16) unlike as on AK where no such removal is necessary.

Ak too requires removal of lower handguard if its not of GP25/30 series.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I really like the concept and design of Ghatak assault rifle but i think they should implement these things to their design too.

First thing is,Left-sided fire selector.
-------------------------------------------
As you can see in Polish Tantal Rifles,they put a 3-position fire selector on the left side of firearm (as majority of shooters are Right-handed so they can easily operate such fire selector with their thumbs).Even Israeli Galil rifles have them (and both Tantal and Galil are improved Kalashnikov variants.)

Tantal Rifle from Poland

Galil Rifle from Israel

even Serbian Zastava M-21 rifle has Left-sided Fire selector similar to Galil

Note:Fire selector in Galil and Zastava rifles moves with Right side Dust cover cum fire selector (You can see it in following video)
but in Polish Tantals Right side Dust cover-cum-fire selector is independent to Left side fire selector and both Fire selectors are operated seperately.In Tantals,Right side dust cover-cum-fire selector has two mods - Safe and Fire (Like any Semi-Automatic only Kalashnikov rifle) and Left Side Fire selector has three mods - Semi-automatic (in middle position,marked as 'P'),Full auto (in far left position,marked as 'C') and 3-round Burst fire (in far right position,marked as 'S').

Left sided Fire selector in Tantal rifle,here the gun is set to Full auto mod.

Here,The fire selector mechanism of Galil is shown.Notice its simplicity.

Second thing is,Modular Right side Fire selector
-------------------------------------------------------------
Current Fire selector-cum-Dust cover for Ghatak is typical AK-type fire selector.I think they should implement this kind of Fire selector on Right side.

Krebs Custom Modular Fire selector for AK rifles

and Finally,Top Mounted Detachable Rails for Optics.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rails for Polish Beryl Rifle

This kind of Rails have little elevation so the Shooter can use Iron sights along with Optical sights,if Needed.

I know Rail section for INSAS rifle can do it too,but i think it should be put on Ghatak rifle in this format.

Some more things that should be added with Ghatak is,Folding+Adjustable buttstock,Illuminated Sights (so one can fire the gun during night using Iron sights).

P.S.
-----
Pardon me for my Weak english,as It is my third language and I'm still learning it.

@Johny_Baba

His post explained the deficiencies of the Ghatak way back in 2016 which have now come to bite it! AK 203 seems to have won out based on this!

 

[vampyrbladez]

FAB MODIFICATION AK

AK 203

Cheaper than AK modification.

 

[binayak95]

FAB MODIFICATION AK

AK 203

Cheaper than AK modification.

Yeah - cheaper than AK203s, but, heavier, and the top rail doesn't retain zero.

Correction : have been reliably informed (thrashed) that FAB rail does indeed retain zero. Noted.

Still heavier.

 

[Gessler]

Ak too requires removal of lower handguard if its not of GP25/30 series.

Yes, have seen AK fitted with OFB UBGL where this becomes necessary, but in my opinion, that's not a very smart thing to do at all - the smart option would be to go with the GP-series launchers, which were specifically designed for the AK, and far easier to install and remove on the field -

 

[Bleh]

FAB MODIFICATION AK

AK 203

Cheaper than AK modification.

Yeah - cheaper than AK203s, but, heavier, and the top rail doesn't retain zero.

What is the price of AK-203s to be manufactured in India. Not full deal, unit price; like SIG-716 were priced at $990 each.

 

[Gessler]

What is the price of AK-203s to be manufactured in India. Not full deal, unit price; like SIG-716 were priced at $990 each.

If there was competitive bidding, the price would have been in public domain by now probably.

But there wasn't any bidding. The product was 'nominated'....so don't expect it to be cheap.

 

[Gessler]

By the way...I wonder which magazine type we will get with our AK-203s....

The older Bakelite-pattern plastic...

...or the newer ruggedized PMAG-style polymer with slit windows...

The graphics shown at the Amethi sabha display 203 with the newer magazine iteration. But remains to be seen if that will be the production configuration for us or if it was just a representative image...

Personally, I hope it will be the latter. The textured surface allows for much better grip even when wearing thick gloves. Plus the advantage afforded by the slits to know if a mag is full, half or empty/near empty simply by glancing rather than having to pick up and "weigh" it for the feel to determine the same....

 

[binayak95]

By the way...I wonder which magazine type we will get with our AK-203s....

The older Bakelite-pattern plastic...

View attachment 33170

...or the newer ruggedized PMAG-style polymer with slit windows...

The graphics shown at the Amethi sabha display 203 with the newer magazine iteration. But remains to be seen if that will be the production configuration for us or if it was just a representative image...

Personally, I hope it will be the latter. The textured surface allows for much better grip even when wearing thick gloves. Plus the advantage afforded by the slits to know if a mag is full, half or empty/near empty simply by glancing rather than having to pick up and "weigh" it for the feel to determine the same....

Any idea about the Muzzle brake on the incoming AK203s? And why dont our boys use the 74 pattern muzzle brakes? In this page of the thread, there is a FAB modified AK without any muzzle device whatsoever...

What gives?

 

[Gessler]

Any idea about the Muzzle brake on the incoming AK203s? And why dont our boys use the 74 pattern muzzle brakes? In this page of the thread, there is a FAB modified AK without any muzzle device whatsoever...

What gives?

Thing is the older AKMs and Eastern European clones, unlike the new(er) AKs coming out of Russia, do not have a factory-standard muzzle device, save for some which come with the old 'slanted' brake like this one -

And Indian forces weren't big on adopting aftermarket muzzle devices for some reason. But if the gun is coming out of the factory with a device, then we just stick with them, like these new-build AK-103s with MARCOS -

But never mind...the AK-203s will come with a new & improved birdcage-type muzzle device which for all intents and purposes appears to be a flash hider, brake & compensator** rolled into one.

** at least partially