Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Kumaoni]

After ~2014 the US made a big switch back to conventional centric focus and peer conflicts. Their conventional forces have been 100% focused on this for at least a decade especially after the pivot to the Indo-Pacific. The Ukraine conflict probably made them even more peer centric.

despite every wake up call going the IA still seems to want to stick their head in the sand and play militia, if PLA hadn’t literally bloodied them they’d probably still be pursuing a policy of territorial denial (under developing frontiers).

Doklam should’ve been a wake up call but esteemed generals slept and Galwan happened.

Across the board india is still sleeping. IAF are perhaps the worst contenders, what they think they’ll be flying against 500 J20 in 10-15 years from now I don’t know

Look at this equipment level change in just two years!
I mean seriously, the IA continues to sleep so do the IAF. Generals need to know that COIN is not the world and butter. There are hardly 300 jihadis in Kashmir now. They don’t even have MMGs or solar rockets like they used to. Phasing out the army from COIN (which admittedly, army has done a decent job in since 2016- hardly any regular btns do COIN ops anymore). Now they need to focus on equipping it up to par.

The amount of people that sleep on the PLA in this very forum should tell you everything you need to know. Do Indians have more expereince and can pound for pound match the pla? Sure! But what is the point when you are stuck in gear that’s at least 2 decades old.

I might have disagreements with you (for example on he usa- I personally find the to be just as if not more incompetent in using sf, but they seem to learn from things better, also in their ops), but if there is one thing you are right on is the piss poor gear will cost the Indian army heavily. Unless the IA wakes up, it is screwed. Modernization needs to happen YESTERDAY!

 

[abingdonboy]

Look at this equipment level change in just two years!
I mean seriously, the IA continues to sleep so do the IAF. Generals need to know that COIN is not the world and butter. There are hardly 300 jihadis in Kashmir now. They don’t even have MMGs or solar rockets like they used to. Phasing out the army from COIN (which admittedly, army has done a decent job in since 2016- hardly any regular btns do COIN ops anymore). Now they need to focus on equipping it up to par.

The amount of people that sleep on the PLA in this very forum should tell you everything you need to know. Do Indians have more expereince and can pound for pound match the pla? Sure! But what is the point when you are stuck in gear that’s at least 2 decades old.

I might have disagreements with you (for example on he usa- I personally find the to be just as if not more incompetent in using sf, but they seem to learn from things better, also in their ops), but if there is one thing you are right on is the piss poor gear will cost the Indian army heavily. Unless the IA wakes up, it is screwed. Modernization needs to happen YESTERDAY!

IA is screwed. For every 1 dollar they have for CAPEX they’ve got to spend 9 dollars on pensions and salaries for the next 10+ years at least. On top of that all the covered subjects of sheer incompetence and, IMHO, intentional subterfuge

IAF. No idea where their money is going, they seem to have gotten S400 and decided they are now a civil air patrol that only needs to think defensively.

Crybaby commies are not 10ft giants but they have vision and resolve. With these things anything js possible. India can’t even procure the basics for war fighting (IFV, tanks, helicopters, arty) forget about the kind of systems China is developing. Couple this with the first world cyber capability of China and India will be lucky to last a few weeks

 

[Kumaoni]

IA is screwed. For every 1 dollar they have for CAPEX they’ve got to spend 9 dollars on pensions and salaries for the next 10+ years at least. On top of that all the covered subjects of sheer incompetence and, IMHO, intentional subterfuge

IAF. No idea where their money is going, they seem to have gotten S400 and decided they are now a civil air patrol that only needs to think defensively.

Crybaby commies are not 10ft giants but they have vision and resolve. With these things anything js possible. India can’t even procure the basics for war fighting (IFV, tanks, helicopters, arty) forget about the kind of systems China is developing. Couple this with the first world cyber capability of China and India will be lucky to last a few weeks

Couldn’t have said it any better. Buying tanks without BPJs, buying jetpacks while using iron sights in 2023. Zero idea of procurement.

Have relatives who are serving (distant) and close relatives who have fought in past. I hope and pray they stop using 70s equipment and are capable to fight.

You also forget about their world class MIC. They are almost entirely self reliant, while we are dependent on an ally that won’t last the 2020s. We don’t have proper ammo for more than 40 damn days. We need to properly introspect.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Soldiers still running around with fibre glass helmets, iron sights, no plate carriers, rotting rifles but hey jet packs

IA HQ is severely infiltrated in my humble opinion and little they have done in the last 20 years will change my view of this. They are Pak Fauj just constrained by (some) civilian oversight otherwise they’d all be multi
Millionaire land barons too

recent Hilux procurements is another prime example

The commies will slice through the Indian military like a hot knife through butter should the day ever come. Hubris and jai ho is all fine during peacetime when the soldiers are fighting militias and Pak fauj ceasefire violations but the emperor has no clothes and this will Be exposed

A major clue on the importance of infantry modernization is when the Russians themselves have copied the western pattern of standardizing high cut helmets, plate carriers and modernized rifles. Russians are known for not falling for anything they consider impractical or unnecessary and stick to only the essentials. If even the Russians have seen it as necessary to go this route, it means that the current state of the Indian infantry is absolutely untenable for modern warfare.

 

[abingdonboy]

Couldn’t have said it any better. Buying tanks without BPJs, buying jetpacks while using iron sights in 2023. Zero idea of procurement.

Have relatives who are serving (distant) and close relatives who have fought in past. I hope and pray they stop using 70s equipment and are capable to fight.

You also forget about their world class MIC. They are almost entirely self reliant, while we are dependent on an ally that won’t last the 2020s. We don’t have proper ammo for more than 40 damn days. We need to properly introspect.

Emperor has no clothes as I’ll keep saying.

it suits Indian leadership to promote the status quo whilst China has a 100+ year vision to redefine the world order (which includes actively toppling the established system). The former have little interest to introspect.

almost 10 years of Modi talking about make in india and defence MIC and his army is putting out global RFIs for even the basics whilst fully developed products (LUH, LCH, ATAGS) can’t even get over low double digit orders.

I believe the rumours that PMO simply got bored of dealing with the BS inside MoD and has left them alone for a while now

 

[Kumaoni]

Emperor has no clothes as I’ll keep saying.

it suits Indian leadership to promote the status quo whilst China has a 100+ year vision to redefine the world order (which includes actively toppling the established system). The former have little interest to introspect.

almost 10 years of Modi talking about make in india and defence MIC and his army is putting out global RFIs for even the basics whilst fully developed products (LUH, LCH, ATAGS) can’t even get over low double digit orders.

I believe the rumours that PMO simply got bored of dealing with the BS inside MoD and has left them alone for a while now

China is not just coming for Aksai chin or Arunachal. They are coming for the whole system. They plan to (and IMO- will) dethrone the USA by 2050.

And If PMO really did get bored, it shows how lethargic Indian planners are. This is the main problem with the country. All strategic thinkers like Lt. gen Harbkash Singh and Gen Sam Manekshaw are gone.

 

[abingdonboy]

China is not just coming for Aksai chin or Arunachal. They are coming for the whole system. They plan to (and IMO- will) dethrone the USA by 2050.

And If PMO really did get bored, it shows how lethargic Indian planners are. This is the main problem with the country. All strategic thinkers like Lt. gen Harbkash Singh and Gen Sam Manekshaw are gone.

Watch what happens in USA, if Ramaswamy becomes POTUS (I think he has a genuine chance), China will be in trouble and india will be a huge beneficiary (economically ) but once again india is more than likely to squander an opportunity because of myopia.

PMO- I believe Modi told commanders conference he wanted theatre commands within 18 months about 5 years ago, the next year he visited the same conference and the collective was still arguing about the merits. Since then PMO has basically given them the lowest priority other than pushing them for emergency gap fillers.

 

[Kumaoni]

Watch what happens in USA, if Ramaswamy becomes POTUS (I think he has a genuine chance), China will be in trouble and india will be a huge beneficiary (economically ) but once again india is more than likely to squander an opportunity because of myopia.

PMO- I believe Modi told commanders conference he wanted theatre commands within 18 months about 5 years ago, the next year he visited the same conference and the collective was still arguing about the merits. Since then PMO has basically given them the lowest priority other than pushing them for emergency gap fillers.

American empire is long gone. Gender war, wokeism, identity crisis, all affects the country. They don’t have what it takes to compete the newer generations of China Imo. The average Chinese is also in far far better shape than fhe average American.

 

[abingdonboy]

Xpost


I’ll leave this here
2004 spec IA is not far from IA’s 2025++ FINSAS spec

to think that since 2004 the Indian taxpayer has paid ~$200bn USD on the IA (the vast majority being swallowed up by salaries and pensions of course). What a ROI

 

[Freedom Thru Firepower]

Yet the import-khors can't even procure good equipment for infantry.

 

[cyclops]

Watch what happens in USA, if Ramaswamy becomes POTUS (I think he has a genuine chance), China will be in trouble and india will be a huge beneficiary (economically ) but once again india is more than likely to squander an opportunity because of myopia.

PMO- I believe Modi told commanders conference he wanted theatre commands within 18 months about 5 years ago, the next year he visited the same conference and the collective was still arguing about the merits. Since then PMO has basically given them the lowest priority other than pushing them for emergency gap fillers.

I wonder if some of the Army bureaucracy can be broken up, stratified and made more leaner through a different batch of officers.

I remember when Gen Bipin Rawat died in the heli crash and people were implying a conspiracy about how Gen Rawat was hindering IA's old guard and their internal politics, inefficiencies and bureaucracy.

 

[Kumaoni]

I wonder if some of the Army bureaucracy can be broken up, stratified and made more leaner through a different batch of officers.

I remember when Gen Bipin Rawat died in the heli crash and people were implying a conspiracy about how Gen Rawat was hindering IA's old guard and their internal politics, inefficiencies and bureaucracy.

They’re always a bright batch followed by a corrupt batch. General Rawat and Navarane tried their best but failed. Hence, Navarane retired just 4 months after Rawat

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[Kumaoni]

2003
Vs 2023

 

[Kumaoni]

I don't understand where are those 2 lakh+ helmets that have been ordered till date?

Still in testing

 

[Kumaoni]

No... orders were placed in 1st term

Genrols probably lazy to figure out

 

[RedHood108]

I don't understand where are those 2 lakh+ helmets that have been ordered till date?

These videos are 3-4 years old. And I only see the new helmets.

FYI I don't watch Republic but I like this series.

The new helmets are only provided to priority regiments. We have 7 lakh active personnel & only 2 lakh of these new helmets.

@Kumaoni the tweet you shared of 62 RR as of 2023 actually has 2022 written on its bottom. But it's actually one of the stock images you see 1st on searching RR on Google.

Only stupid people will get annoyed that a 16 Tillion $ economy has a better equipped infantry than a 3 Trillion $ economy, with a larger population.

 

[Kumaoni]

These videos are 3-4 years old. And I only see the new helmets.

FYI I don't watch Republic but I like this series.

The new helmets are only provided to priority regiments. We have 7 lakh active personnel & only 2 lakh of these new helmets.

@Kumaoni the tweet you shared of 62 RR as of 2023 actually has 2022 written on its bottom. But it's actually one of the stock images you see 1st on searching RR on Google.

Only stupid people will get annoyed that a 16 Tillion $ economy has a better equipped infantry than a 3 Trillion $ economy, with a larger population.

Even in these videos there’s hardly anything difference since 2003.

 

[RedHood108]

Even in these videos there’s hardly anything difference since 2003.

It was for the helmets buddy.

 

[Kumaoni]

It was for the helmets buddy.

“Only stupid people will get annoyed that a 16 Tillion $ economy has a better equipped infantry than a 3 Trillion $ economy, with a larger population.”

You talking about China? Please take a look at average south East Asian sof and infantry and compare to ia.