Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[MikeTheInfantryman]

If Leopards are ass, I have very bad news about the T90. The main problem with the Leopard 2 is that most of its ammunition is stored in an unsealed compartment and that the older versions l, a4-a5 have armour which is not as thick as the Abrams or Challenger. Well, the T-90 is much worse in both those aspects. Same as the T 72, its ammo is stored unarmoured right below the 2 people in the turret. And it's Armour is even weaker.

Leo 2 and all western tanks have the advantage of hunter killer capability, where the commander has his own independent thermal sight that can rotate 360 degrees, giving much better situational awareness. Something our T 90 bhishma doesn't have. The quality of their thermal sights and aiming systems are also much better. The latest versions of western tanks take it several steps further by installing thermal cameras all around the tank that gives the commander and loader 360 degree awareness.

Western tank designs are better than the T series any day any where. And the only tank in the Indian fleet which can potentially match them is Arjun. Another genius decision by the top brass, to give up a western style tank in favour of an upgraded T 72.

Yeah and the only asian tanks that can match up to the Western tanks are Arjun and K2. But again muh American weapons trash they lost in Afghanistan muh

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yeah and the only asian tanks that can match up to the Western tanks are Arjun and K2. But again muh American weapons trash they lost in Afghanistan muh

More like Type 90 and K2
Arjun still lacks in many areas

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Yeah and the only asian tanks that can match up to the Western tanks are Arjun and K2. But again muh American weapons trash they lost in Afghanistan muh

Lots of people on the internet refuse to understand the difference between conventional warfare and counter insurgency, which are two entirely different skill sets. The latter has more to do with policing, governance and economics than the quality of weapons or training. This does not reflect the absolute carnage the US can bring in a conventional fight against another military. The last time the US went against another proper military, in 1991, they set the standard of what a conventional victory looks like.

btw, the Japanese Type 10 can also hold its own, though its has weaker armour. But against 120mm APFSD, there really isn't any armour that can survive, so it's kind of even.

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Lots of people on the internet refuse to understand the difference between conventional warfare and counter insurgency, which are two entirely different skill sets. The latter has more to do with policing, governance and economics than the quality of weapons or training. This does not reflect the absolute carnage the US can bring in a conventional fight against another military. The last time the US went against another proper military, in 1991, they set the standard of what a conventional victory looks like.

People make snap decisions after seeing a YouTube video or some headlines. And then they don't give up on their opinions

Anyways biases exist so I'm not really blaming them but yeah it's better to see much more clearly




It's also funny how the PLA copied the shock and awe tactics from the US after seeing the 1991 Desert Storm operation. Guess that changed minds for them huh?

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

More like Type 90 and K2
Arjun still lacks in many areas

Yeah actually true, but like Arjun was or is more like our little first experiment which acts as a building block for a better MBT for mass production (or at least that's what I hope)

 

[Lonewarrior]

Except the lack of APS in our tanks, we're pretty much on par with the PLA in tanks regarding their quality. In quantity though, we lack tanks, but again most of their old gen T-55 ripoffs are still in service even though they're being phased out. Even the type 96s are barely at par with the T-72s so I'm not much worried about tank quality

As of now this conclusion will work but I don't think it will for a long time.

Even before Ukr-Rus conflict they had already started moving away from the carousel-type autoloader to bustle-type (Type 15) so it's better to assume that they'll try to retrofit bustle autoloader in Type 99 as soon as possible after seeing all the turret throws.

The bigger problem with China is not their tank but our lack of a formidable anti-tank capability. They've a s*it load of ATGMs and perhaps more importantly AT LMs that are light enough to work in high altitude battlefield. Top attack munitions will be the absolute nightmare for our T-series tanks.

Why not make a tank with the K9 chassis? Would be pretty good since half the work is kind of done, since only some changes are required

Armour isn't sufficient.
Only AP HMG round protection

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yeah actually true, but like Arjun was or is more like our little first experiment which acts as a building block for a better MBT for mass production (or at least that's what I hope)

Doesn't matter
If you still can't move to a smoothbore cannon, which more or requires just replacing the barrel after two decades of service then it's bit too late to give the excuse of little first experience.
Our military and R&D both sucks at having long term vision

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

As of now this conclusion will work but I don't think it will for a long time.

Even before Ukr-Rus conflict they had already started moving away from the carousel-type autoloader to bustle-type (Type 15) so it's better to assume that they'll try to retrofit bustle autoloader in Type 99 as soon as possible after seeing all the turret throws.

The bigger problem with China is not their tank but our lack of a formidable anti-tank capability. They've a s*it load of ATGMs and perhaps more importantly AT LMs that are light enough to work in high altitude battlefield. Top attack munitions will be the absolute nightmare for our T-series tanks.
View attachment 216999

Armour isn't sufficient.
Only AP HMG round protection

Oh yeah, we lack a lot of portable ATGMs. Doesn't the PLA have a Javelin ripoff for their Infantry units?

Funny that US is moving to autoloaders (the new AbramsX concept has a autoloader, but like it's predecessor, it's in an seperate armoured compartment with blowout panels so that the crew will be protected even if they're hit)


Also yeah it makes sense K9 chassis isn't rated for APFSDS rounds or anything even close to that. Seeing by the looks of MoD and DRDO I don't think we're going to have a good MBT anytime soon and even if it comes it will be outdated like hell

Seeing as how L&T is already making K9s, K2 when?

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Doesn't matter
If you still can't move to a smoothbore cannon, which more or requires just replacing the barrel after two decades of service then it's bit too late to give the excuse of little first experience.
Our military and R&D both sucks at having long term vision

Yup well what was I even expecting

 

[NotASussyBoi]

They should have just scrapped it

 

[Lonewarrior]

Lots of people on the internet refuse to understand the difference between conventional warfare and counter insurgency, which are two entirely different skill sets. The latter has more to do with policing, governance and economics than the quality of weapons or training. This does not reflect the absolute carnage the US can bring in a conventional fight against another military. The last time the US went against another proper military, in 1991, they set the standard of what a conventional victory looks like.

> Launch 6969 Tomahawks on all strategic target like C4I nodes, bases, air field
> Even before the enemy can recover from this shock send in literally hundreds of F-16CJ to do SEAD/DEAD mission. After initial Tomahawks attack the all the Air Defenses would be in high alert, sticking out like a sore thumb...there goes all of your Air Defense assets (except MANPADs and battlefield SAMs)
> Next wave of bombers and fighters take care of enemy air force even before they can get airborne
> Muh air superiority in less than 24hr

This is both the advantage and the Achilles heel if American war fighting doctrine; if your country can be engaged by these 4 steps then you're gone and if not then US forces would lose the war.

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

They should have just scrapped it

The only complaint I have about this uniform is like how tight it is, what is this, a Batman costume?

Also it blends way more in with Japanese terrain for some reason lmao

 

[Lonewarrior]

Oh yeah, we lack a lot of portable ATGMs. Doesn't the PLA have a Javelin ripoff for their Infantry units?

Yup, they've

Choose a random letter from C to L, choose another letter from the remaining letters of F to J, add a hyphen and at last add any random number you like...you will have a Chinese ATGM or loitering munitions of that name.

Funny that US is moving to autoloaders (the new AbramsX concept has a autoloader, but like it's predecessor, it's in an seperate armoured compartment with blowout panels so that the crew will be protected even if they're hit)

The problem is not about manual vs autoloader; in practical use both have similar speed.
And also they've their one set of pros and cons.

The bigger issue is whether the ammunition is cook-off protected or not. That's it

Seeing as how L&T is already making K9s, K2 when?

As soon a tender comes online they'll offer it. L&T is more like local sales outlet; if you want K-13 Biho they can ship it next day, K-2? Next week
They're not going to make something on the K9 chassis on their own

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Yup, they've

Choose a random letter from C to L, choose another letter from the remaining letters of F to J, add a hyphen and at last add any random number you like...you will have a Chinese ATGM or loitering munitions of that name.

The problem is not about manual vs autoloader; in practical use both have similar speed.
And also they've their one set of pros and cons.

The bigger issue is whether the ammunition is cook-off protected or not. That's it

As soon a tender comes online they'll offer it. L&T is more like local sales outlet; if you want K-13 Biho they can ship it next day, K-2? Next week
They're not going to make something on the K9 chassis on their own

Average Chinese naming moment. Couldn't be more better than you described


Hopefully someone at MoD has the brain's enough to know that DRDO isn't going to offer shit anytime soon for decades and that a new tank should come seeing as how our very dear comrade Putin's tanks are getting smashed in Ukraine

 

[Lonewarrior]

Which country can defend against these 4 steps?

If the capabilities are really what they claim to be, then China can put up a considerable AD network scattered around a vast area.

Other than that, no country can

 

[Lonewarrior]

That famous terrorist state filled with yk who who fucks goats , no not pakistan but afghanistan

That's the whole point, they can't be engaged by those four steps

> They had no bases, no C4I, no runway...what are you going to destroy with Tomahawks?
> There no medium-long range SAM to destroy in SEAD/DEAD. What they had was MANPADs and SHORADS...which are immune to SEAD
> No air-force to take down
> Kya hi kar loge air superiority haasil kar ke? They were f-ing goats before air superiority, they'll f goat after air superiority

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

So you mean to say he had no one to govern over ?
What a madlad.

Those tribal people never change and they're gonna resist badly no matter what you do, whether it be the British Indian army in Waziristan, Soviet Union in Afghanistan and the US. If China enters, then probably they could, seeing as how they have concentration camps for uyghurs already.


Brutal people only understand brutality. No wonder Genghis Khan won

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

That's the whole point, they can't be engaged by those four steps

> They had no bases, no C4I, no runway...what are you going to destroy with Tomahawks?
> There no medium-long range SAM to destroy in SEAD/DEAD. What they had was MANPADs and SHORADS...which are immune to SEAD
> No air-force to take down
> Kya hi kar loge air superiority haasil kar ke? They were f-ing goats before air superiority, they'll f goat after air superiority

Insurgencies are wars that just cannot be won by non brutality, and even if you're brutal it's bound to get out of hand really soon. Unless you're Ivan or Genghis Khan

I saw a video where a Marine was just racking his brains over why a ANA private was fucking a goat that was gifted to the village elder by the Marines since the ANA contingent was from the village itself

 

[binayak95]

And they lost HMS prince of Wales to some G4 Betty bombers .
What a way to go for such a mighty ship , also it's cat the blackie survived the sinking but went to hunt mice when the survivors went ashore , during the evacuation after the fall of Singapore , the men were unable to find blackie and thus it's final whereabouts remain unknown.

That ship was cursed from the get go. she was badly damaged during the infamous Hood sinking incident. her guns kept misfiring, her turrets and gun control was messed up.

I guess the brits should have sent the Warspite instead.

 

[Freedom Thru Firepower]

And they lost HMS prince of Wales to some G4 Betty bombers .
What a way to go for such a mighty ship , also it's cat the blackie survived the sinking but went to hunt mice when the survivors went ashore , during the evacuation after the fall of Singapore , the men were unable to find blackie and thus it's final whereabouts remain unknown.

That task force was sailing without any air cover it was the idiotic decision by brits, considering how effective was carrier based naval aviation groups against BBs & BCs two day earlier at pearl harbour.

Good riddance, though !