MMRCA news and discussions.

[John]

Survey could alter fighter gap

By Andrew Tilghman - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Aug 24, 2009 16:42:05 EDT

Although they’ve been in the fleet for less than a decade, the Navy’s F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets already are undergoing a detailed inspection to determine their projected service life, Navy officials said.

The one- and two-seat Super Hornets began a service life assessment program, or SLAP, last year. That’s the first step to determine how long the planes will last and what significant repairs may be needed to extend them beyond their initial minimum life span of 6,000 flight hours.

The oldest Super Hornets have logged 3,200 to 3,800 flight hours, and Navy officials hope to extend that to 9,000, according Marcia Hart-Wise, a spokeswoman for the F/A-18 program office at Naval Air Systems Command.

The results of the SLAP will help shed new light on the “strike fighter gap,” the projected shortfall in fighter jets the Navy will face as F/A-18 A-D models begin retiring before their replacements, F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters, join the fleet.

The gap has become a hot-button issue for the Navy as congressional lawmakers debate whether to spend millions on a new block of Super Hornets to bolster the fighter fleet until the carrier version of the F-35 arrives in 2015.

The Navy is closely studying the condition of the A through D models, which were put into service in the 1980s and are nearing the end of their service life. The latest reports say those older aircraft will have to retire earlier than expected, increasing the shortfall.

The Navy initially hoped to extend the older Hornets to 10,000 flight hours, but their unexpectedly poor condition likely will make extension beyond 8,600 exorbitantly expensive, Navy officials said.

The SLAP for the Super Hornets could, for the first time, draw those planes into the fighter gap equation, altering projections about the future fleet size and the urgency of buying new planes.

“They want to know what kind of work would be needed to extend the E and F series, and how much would it cost,” said Richard Aboulafia, a defense consultant with the Teal Group in Virginia.

Boeing, which makes the Super Hornets, has been eager to forge a new multi-year contract with the Navy to sell dozens of new Super Hornets at roughly $50 million per aircraft.
Building the future fighter fleet

The Navy’s study of its existing Super Hornets will examine the costs and benefits of extending the life of those aircraft. That in turn will help Navy leaders and lawmakers determine whether to buy more F-35s or Super Hornets.

Examining the Super Hornets will help shape that debate in the coming years.

“The tac-air gap will evolve each year. Any tac-air gap will have to look at all service life extension programs and models,” said Jim McAleese, principal at the McAleese and Associates defense consulting firm in Virginia.

Data on the Super Hornets’ life will help address any skepticism from the Office of the Secretary of Defense about the nature and scope of the shortfall, he said.

“OSD is going to be very concerned about the how credible and how genuine the tac-air gap is,” McAleese said.
Super Hornet 101

The Navy has begun to assess the life span of the fleet’s roughly 300 F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets.

Past: The first Super Hornet, an F/A-18E, was delivered to Strike Fighter Squadron 115 and deployed with the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln in July 2002.

Present: The Navy is still receiving new Hornets from Boeing’s active production line. The oldest aircraft have logged 3,200 to 3,800 flight hours.

Future: While the Super Hornets were designed to reach at least 6,000 flight hours, the Navy hopes to develop an affordable service life extension program for the planes to reach 9,000 lifetime flight hours.

Survey could alter fighter gap - Navy News, news from Iraq - Navy Times

 

[John]

Boeing SLAM ER Modified to Engage Moving Targets on Land

ST. LOUIS, Aug. 25, 2009 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] has modified the Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response (SLAM ER) to engage land-based moving targets (LMT). The U.S. Navy declared the missile system, with its enhanced targeting software, operationally effective against LMTs on July 2 following a successful Operational Evaluation.

"Upgrading SLAM ER with the land-based moving target function adds a key capability to the warfighter's arsenal," said Steve Morrow, Boeing director of Naval Weapon Programs. "We look forward to helping the Navy train the fleet to use this new capability."

Upgrading the SLAM ER's system software to include LMT capabilities was a Navy Rapid Technology Transition effort to fill a critical need by making SLAM ER an effective weapon for destroying or disabling high-value land-based moving targets, such as missile launchers and mobile radar. The software enables F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet aircraft to continuously receive updated target coordinates from appropriate Command and Control platforms, on-ship radar, or other third-party targeting sources, and then transfer these updates to the SLAM ER in flight.

A four-part series of developmental and operational flight tests demonstrated the system's network-centric ability to use third-party targeting. During its final test flight in January, SLAM ER scored a direct hit against a remote-controlled, land-based moving target. Previous test flights included an operational test launch, also in January, and engagement with remote-controlled mobile targets in 2006.

SLAM ER is a highly adaptable day/night, all-weather, over-the-horizon precision strike missile capable of hitting stationary or moving targets on land or at sea and can be launched from safe standoff ranges of more than 150 nautical miles. It is a Navy weapon of choice for surgical strikes against high-value land targets and ships in port and at sea. The missile's "man-in-the-loop" mode allows the pilot to precisely update the target impact point during the missile's final moments of flight.

Boeing: Boeing SLAM ER Modified to Engage Moving Targets on Land

Hit a moving at 270km away nice, super hornet gets deadlier day by day.

 

[purplemarco]

F-16 innovates for MMRCA contest | StratPost

Lockheed Martin cool about defense budget cuts | StratPost

MMRCA bids liable to change before selection | StratPost

 

[venom]

F-16 innovates for MMRCA contest

Lockheed Martin has configured its F-16 fighter to enable it to meet the air-to-air refueling requirements laid down for the Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The defense contractor has enabled the aircraft with the ‘Probe and Drogue’ system, a demonstrator of which was displayed at the Paris Air Show recently.

According to John Giese of Lockheed Martin the aircraft requires conformal tanks to enable air-to-air refueling. Other air forces that operate the F-16 too, have taken notice. “Israel was interested. If the Israeli Air Force (F-16 aircraft) were to have conformal tanks, they could be enabled too,” he said.

Lockheed Martin especially engineered an F-16 for the purpose of meeting the Indian requirements, enabling the aircraft to use the ‘Probe and Drogue’ system for refueling with a retractable refueling boom attached to its conformal tanks. “We’ve developed this capability over the past few years,” said Giese.

Conformal tanks, unlike drop tanks which can be discarded after use, are additional fuel tanks that are fitted into the architecture of an aircraft to optimize its aerodynamic shape.

The capability for air-to-air refueling is considered strategically significant as it extends the range and endurance of the aircraft being refueled. Probe and Drogue allows tankers to refuel multiple aircraft at the same time and is also used by the IAF’s Il-78 tankers

What if we decide to fly a mission without conformal tanks?
Ans- NO air-to-air refueling capability

F-16 innovates for MMRCA contest | StratPost

 

[F-14]

“Israel was interested. If the Israeli Air Force (F-16 aircraft) were to have conformal tanks, they could be enabled too,”

IAF F-16's have CFT's especially the sufa variant and the CFT come standard on Viper's after block 50+

 

[John]

IAF F-16's have CFT's especially the sufa variant and the CFT come standard on Viper's after block 50+

well CFTs are an option, i don't think its standard block 50+ equipment. Block 60 + has standard cfts. we have some gr8 options for the SV.

Future Options

Future Options

The following systems could be integrated on the F-16. Many have already been demonstrated.

* Air Refueling Probe
This probe provides in-flight refueling from a drogue system. Options include a telescoping probe from a wing fuel tank.

* Auxiliary Power Unit
This power unit replaces the jet fuel starter and ground electrical and hydraulics carts.

* On-Board Inert Gas Generation System (OBIGGS)
OBIGGS eliminates halon and nitrogen servicing requirements.

* Multiaxis Thrust Vectoring
This type of vectoring provides precise control and high nose-pointing rates at low air speeds

* In-Flight Route Planning
Using in-flight route planning, pilots are provided with dynamic flight direction for best avoidance of threats.

* Perspective Displays
These displays provide the pilot with a visual refresher that improves first-run attack success probability.

* Embedded Training
This enhanced peacetime training uses realistic simulated threats and targets.

* Auto Ground Collision Avoidance System
An integrated digital terrain system with digital flight control, this system enhances low-altitude safety.

* Automatic Maneuvering Attack
This provides integrated fire and flight control for reduced pilot work load.

* Microwave Landing System
This system provides curvilinear precision instrument approach capability.

* Missile Warning System
This system provides warning of approaching missiles, including passive homing missiles, for proper timing of countermeasures.

* All-Weather Standoff Weapons
Weapons used include the AGM-84E Standoff Land-Attack Missile (SLAM) and the AGM-142 Popeye II.

* International Advanced Weapons
Advanced weapons include MICA, IRIS-T, Python IV, Active Skyflash air-to-air missile, ALARM antiradiation missile, Apache multimission standoff weapon, autonomous free-flight dispenser system, and AS30L laser-guided missile.

 

[F-14]

the hellanic Vipers Block 50/52+ so are the Sufa's and the Desert vipers of the UAEAF
all have CFT's or are CFT cabable

 

[John]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_F-16s_Turkish_Armed_lg.jpg

TUAF block 50s,

USAf block 50s

http://www.misawa.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080508-F-0108B-002.jpg

block 52s

Google Image Result for http://www.aviation-news.co.uk/media/may9-33.jpg

Polish block 52s

Google Image Result for http://i.pbase.com/g6/03/771103/2/79021321.v1TddzjH.jpg

well its an option but indeed block 50 and 52s are cft capable.

 

[wild goose]

F16s of Hellenic Air Force I think,

 

[F-14]

yes this vipers are with the HAF



Introduction
The Hellenic Air Force (or Greek Air Force) has ordered a total of 170 F-16 aircraft, including F16CD Block 30, 50, and 52 aircraft. These aircraft are equiped with state-of-the-art weapon systems: JDAM, JSOM, and WCMD ground attack munitions; IRIS-T and AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; JHMCS and NVG for the pilots; LANTIRN navigation and targeting system; and ASPIS electronic warfare suite.The latest order of Block 52 aircraft are equiped with conformal fuel tanks, in order to give them the range to cover Cyprus.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article5.html

the HAF took the orders under the

Peace Xenia III program

Peace Xenia IV

 

[John]

Lockheed Martin flying in F-16s to Bangalore for IAF trials

BY : IANS

Three F-16 advanced fighters of US aerospace major Lockheed Martin will soar into the skies Monday for the flight evaluation trials (FET) of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) the Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to replace its ageing Soviet-era MiG-21 fleet.

‘We are flying in three F-16s from Dubai to Bangalore Aug 31 for the month-long field trials. The fourth-generation advanced fighters are currently with the United Arab Emirates (UAE) Air Force. They will be flown by our test pilots along with US Air Force pilots,’ a senior Lockheed Martin official told IANS here.

In the run-up to the trials, to be conducted in Bangalore, near Jaisalmer in Rajasthan desert and in high-altitude Leh in September, Lockheed Martin has flown-in an advance team, including a logistics group, for ground preparations.

‘The F-16s, with fifth generation capabilities, will demonstrate to the IAF their strike power, speed, accuracy and its awesome 360-degree maneouvers, with its sophisticated active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar,’ Lockheed Martin director Michael R. Griswold said.

If Lockheed Martin bags the lucrative order, estimated to be about $10 billion at current prices for 126 aircraft, it will manufacture an Indian version, christened F-16IN Super Viper that will carry about 8,000kg of conventional weapons or nuclear warheads.

The other five aircraft in the fray for the order are Boeing’s F/A-181N Super Hornet, the Dassault Rafale, the Saab Gripen, the Russian MiG-35 and the European consortium EADS Eurofighter Typhoon.

As per the global tender floated last year, the winning bidder will have to deliver 18 aircraft in fly-away condition, while the remaining 108 will be manufactured by the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) under a technology transfer deal.

Though the tender is for 126 aircraft, there is an option for an additional 50 percent, or 63 more aircraft.

The F-16 trials will take place a fortnight after Boeing flew in its two Super Hornets Aug 14 and conducted trials for about 10 days from Aug 17 in Bangalore before taking-off to Jaisalmer and Leh for a series of trials in hot and cold weather conditions.

During the second round of field trials, senior IAF test pilots will join Lockheed Martin test pilots to fly the tandem-seater fighters for a firsthand feel of its capabilities and technologies, especially its electronic warfare abilities.

‘Initially, the IAF pilots will co-pilot the aircraft, taking controls mid-air after familiarising themselves with the systems and the advanced navigation aids. In the subsequent trials, the IAF pilots will take command of the aircraft for evaluating its various parameters, including use of weapons,’ a Lockheed Martin official said but declined to be named.

The IAF has formed two teams of two test pilots each for the flight trials, which will be conducted in three stages: pilot familiarisation, field trials and weapons systems trials. The third stage will be conducted in the country of manufacture.

The technical evaluation was completed early this year after the six manufacturers responded to the IAF’s Request for Proposal (RFP) in August 2007.

‘All the trials are on a no-cost-no-commitment basis. The IAF will buy only the aircraft that meets all the parameters in terms of capabilities and cost,’ a defence analyst told IANS here.

Lockheed Martin flying in F-16s to Bangalore for IAF trials IDRW.ORG

The falcon has a max payload ability of 6.5 tons or so but now they say 8 tons, mistake or may be the F-16IN is an extreme makeover ?? even the F-16XL only had 6.8 tons of useful weight...Hence i wonder what is LM upto with the F-16IN. SH's have moved on from Bangalore to Jais or Leh.

 

[icecoolben]

So, are the tests at bangkore over for the super hornet, what use is there testing the air-craft at leh now, it should be by early january.

 

[John]

So, are the tests at bangkore over for the super hornet, what use is there testing the air-craft at leh now, it should be by early january.

The temp in Jais is as high as 37 degrees today, now if the aircraft is indeed left out through out the whole day the skin temperature should easily reach 45-50 degrees over time. Now i am sure Jais is first in line after Banga.

The temp. at Leh today is as high at 30 degrees, i indeed wonder how they will sim a cold start. But cold ramp starts are done early in the morning after leaving the aircraft out for an entire night (cold soak). Tonight the temp. at leh is around 7 degrees, left over night in the cold and taking in account high altitude and winds between 11-15 km today, well i would expect the skin temp. to reach to around 0. taking into account the average temp in sep. at Leh is between 20 and 5 degrees. By the time SH reaches Leh sometime next week, it will be colder, they should be able to get skin temp of below 0.

But -20 or +55 starts wont be able to take place for the SH. but there is extensive documentation on SH's cold soak and heat soak tests. check link..nice read.

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[AJSINGH]

i think the best choice for MMRCA comeptition should be Mig 35 ....first it will cost ledd to IAF to maintain and operate .....second the Zhuk Me Phazatron RADAR has 60% more output than the APG 79 ASEA radar on the super hornet ...plus the airframe is combat proven ...plus american weapons are sanctions prone and if we do not comply with america in international they would stop the further upgrades ...whereas Russia does not interfere ...plus technically Mig 35 is better than the hornet anyway

 

[icecoolben]

Precisely due to the higher output, homing missiles can be aimed at the aircraft easily. Further iaf doesn't want an air superiority fighter. The mmrca aircraft would be primarily used in attack roles. The air-frame may be old, but there are upgrads to block 3 available. The stealth incorporated in it is the best available from the competition. The bvr missilses the americans are offering are the best in the world. The americans are serious about this competition, they have shut out the israelis. So gripen is out. Eurofighter not so much of a future for this consortium. F-16 -expired. Mig-35, the company's future itself is in contention. Let alone life time support. Looking at the dark horse the rafale, the cost and the issues with the mirage upgrade programme place it at a disadvantage. So the only aircraft that is even fit to pass to the future needs of the iaf is the f-18 super hornet.

 

[AJSINGH]

To Icecoolbe

The bvr missilses the americans are offering are the best in the world. The americans are serious about this competition, they have shut out the israelis. So gripen is out. Eurofighter not so much of a future for this consortium. F-16 -expired. Mig-35, the company's future itself is in contention. Let alone life time support. Looking at the dark horse the rafale, the cost and the issues with the mirage upgrade programme place it at a disadvantage. So the only aircraft that is even fit to pass to the future needs of the iaf is the f-18 super hornet.

dude american BVR Technology isnt the best ...russian made BVR missile are the best R-77m acrcher is aerodynamically better than amraam 120 a/c ...with better range and onboard radar .......u see F1-8 future also is uncertain because US navy is inducting F-35 ..so talking of upgrades for F-18 u cannot expect much ...plus hornet was developed with US navy in mind and it is essentially a maritime strike fighter...not air superiority fighter.....plus there is whole lot of issues with america with its problem of full tot ...u see we still support russia and russia and america dont like each other even now

 

[icecoolben]

What v really have to look at is the iaf's requirements . During the kargil war, the mig-29, 21, 23, 27 could not be used. The mig-35 is an air-superiority fighter primarily with multi-role features. What is essential is a multi-role ground attack aircraft. The f-18 is the mother of multi-role aircraft , given the us navy's commitment the the super hornet, v don't need to spend for development of upgrades. Also having american aircraft will pull the strings on russia to be consious of its relationship with india.for instance, They sold su-27, 30, 33 to china and bolstered their air-deterance against us. co-development projects like fgfa, medium transport aircraft with russia would prevent profileration to china and paki . But putting another mig-35 in there and wait for spares and complain of supply support in unreasonable. They have alreay stated that only after 2013 the first mig-35 can be rolled out for india. Though this is not a difficult time-frame, why take that risk and pay in excess as in case of goskov, sukoi mki deal, etc. The US navy has had a wonderful experience with the super hornet project cost, delivery , upgrades etc. Boeing itself is betting on the aircraft to guide itself through 2024. So the middle men from the company can be used to leverage concessions from washington. Stop looking at the US as a sanction prone country. Look how it mothered israel, through its own sanctions.
In any case, i prefer the air-craft that comes with full tot like the su-30 mki did. Including the radar source codes. The deal is all business to other countries, companies be it russia, america, france, europe or sweden. So let the iaf valuate the air-craft and take a decision that would be better in the long term.

 

[John]

i think the best choice for MMRCA comeptition should be Mig 35 ....first it will cost ledd to IAF to maintain and operate .....second the Zhuk Me Phazatron RADAR has 60% more output than the APG 79 ASEA radar on the super hornet ...plus the airframe is combat proven ...plus american weapons are sanctions prone and if we do not comply with america in international they would stop the further upgrades ...whereas Russia does not interfere ...plus technically Mig 35 is better than the hornet anyway

Firstly, Zhuk Me Phazatron is a PESA radar and not an AESA, its going on board our mig-29 upgrade, its a good radar but not in contention for the MRCA.

The Zhuk-ME features steered array radar antenna and is intended for the Mig-29 aircraft. It can detect airborne targets with a five square meter Radar Cross Section (RCS) at ranges of 110-120 kilometers in the forward hemisphere or 50 kilometers in the rear hemisphere while tracking 10 targets and engaging four of them simultaneously. It can track up to two ground/sea targets simultaneously. In the air-to-ground mode, the Zhuk-ME is capable of detecting armored formations at ranges of 25 kilometers and railway bridges at ranges of 120 kilometers. In the air-to-sea mode, the radar system can detect a destroyer-sized target at ranges of 300 kilometers or a small target, such as a patrol boat, at 150 kilometers.

The mig-35's radar is the Zhuk AE AESA, which according to the picture below has max. detection range of 130km for a 3m2 rcs target. The R-77M ramjet has a max range of 180km and sadly this BVR can't be exploited by the Mig-35.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1602/dscn0121cy9.jpg

The SH's original APG-73 radar had a max detection range of 300km for target with 5m2 rcs. The APG-79 which in a space of 5 years has evolved from V-1 to V-3 has max detection range nearly double that with well over 500km. It can track 1m2 target like an f-16 at well over 160km enough range to deploy the new Aim120D which also has range over 180km. With this radar and missile the SH always has first shot. The SH can carry upto 14 A2A missiles in a single sortie 10 Aim-120s and 2 Aim-9x block 2/Asraam. It can carry 24 SDBs which can precisely hit targets in moving, hardened or air burst modes at well over 100km. JDAM, LJDAM, Paveway 1/2/3, JSOW A/C(land/sea targets), SLAM/ER, SDB, CBU-97 SFW, Harpoon Block 2/3, Maverick, JDAM-ER, SDB-2, AAGRM (anti radar missile capable of hitting shut down radars as well). SH can also play AWACS and tanker roles (and not just buddy refueling but with other aircraft as well). It has unprecedented battlefield awareness which goes beyond situational awareness.

This deal is going to SH, it already has a new GE 414 EPE engine with 118KN+ thrust per engine. The GE 414 intially had thrust of 92KN, a few years later now it is 98KN and Boeing is looking for export customer to launch the new engine. Block 3 upgrades beyond 2020 are well underway, the block-3 aircraft will have full-combat load combat radius of 1000NM or 1850km on internal fuel, super cruise, new EW suite, new jammers, Thrust vectoring etc. The USN plans to operate it well beyond 2040, the airframe has a life of 6000 hours before MLU after which its good for another 2500 hours. USN is still receiving the super hornet, its reasonably low life cycle costs and upgrade path looks good. Rafale has nothing beyond F-4, Typhoon beyond T-3, Gripen beyond NG, Falcon beyond the block 70, mig-35 beyond mig-35. Boeing is the only contender that is investing its own money into block 3 upgrades which will be ready by 2020 and if we choose to buy 74 more in options we can simply order the block-3 once all 126 have been delivered.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

John will the meteor be coming with the SH???If it can be arranged than I think Rafele could be knocked out of the competition along with gripen and eurofighter.

 

[AJSINGH]

What v really have to look at is the iaf's requirements . During the kargil war, the mig-29, 21, 23, 27 could not be used. The mig-35 is an air-superiority fighter primarily with multi-role features. What is essential is a multi-role ground attack aircraft. The f-18 is the mother of multi-role aircraft , given the us navy's commitment the the super hornet, v don't need to spend for development of upgrades. Also having american aircraft will pull the strings on russia to be consious of its relationship with india.for instance, They sold su-27, 30, 33 to china and bolstered their air-deterance against us. co-development projects like fgfa, medium transport aircraft with russia would prevent profileration to china and paki . But putting another mig-35 in there and wait for spares and complain of supply support in unreasonable. They have alreay stated that only after 2013 the first mig-35 can be rolled out for india. Though this is not a difficult time-frame, why take that risk and pay in excess as in case of goskov, sukoi mki deal, etc. The US navy has had a wonderful experience with the super hornet project cost, delivery , upgrades etc. Boeing itself is betting on the aircraft to guide itself through 2024. So the middle men from the company can be used to leverage concessions from washington. Stop looking at the US as a sanction prone country. Look how it mothered israel, through its own sanctions.
In any case, i prefer the air-craft that comes with full tot like the su-30 mki did. Including the radar source codes. The deal is all business to other countries, companies be it russia, america, france, europe or sweden. So let the iaf valuate the air-craft and take a decision that would be better in the long term.

we did use the Mig 29 for bomber escort mission ...mirage was the bomber and the Mig 29 the escort ..infact aerial engagement also happened between paf f-16 AND iaf Mig 29 in whch Mig 29 were the winners and also mannaged to lock on to the f-16 ....the reason why we did not use the 23 and 27 because IAF wanter sepicific bunker busting bombs and laser targetting which was only on mirage ..the new Mig 27 will have that....the sapres are not a problem because if we did not have spares we would be able to fly mIg 29 mig 21 mog 23 anyway ...so spares issue is blown out if proprotion by media
and YES USA is sanction prone country..they impose sanctions on ISRO in 2000 for 2 years for reasons which funny ...plus they did not provide us ge engines for LCA in time ...hence the delay ...plus do u really think USA will give us their latest technology without any strings attached...more improtantly the source codes for the radar ...did u know that the USS TRETON which we bought cannot take part in any war and american can anytime ask for inspection ( weapons on board ) what do u think will happen with aircraft .....plus dont u see ...america is selling weapons to both side ( pakistan and india ) russia did see to china but they have stopped because they cant afford to lose india as their largest weapons buyers ......