Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

That is why we decided to use Kanchan Armour even in T-72M1, But the cavity for Kanchan Armour module is bigger in Arjun then T-90S or T-72M1, Hence the protection level of Arjun is far greater than T-90S in portions of Frontal Armour..

Most important point in Indian context, that Arjun is domestic product and T90S is export version of T90 tank. So armor protection of T90S tank is not same as what Russian army T90A tank.

We have seen this with T72 tank in Iraq.

 

[Damian]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

That is why we decided to use Kanchan Armour even in T-72M1, But the cavity for Kanchan Armour module is bigger in Arjun then T-90S or T-72M1, Hence the protection level of Arjun is far greater than T-90S in portions of Frontal Armour..

How do you use Kanchan on T-72M1? From Polish experiences it is nearly immposible to replace old armor in this tank cast turret. When our engineers tried to do so, every attempt to open cavity and replace composite filler, ended with serious structural damage of turret. This because of how turret is made and how composite filler is placed there during manufacturing process.

Besides this, Kanchan as far as I understand, is manufacturerd in form of large sheets of different materials composied in to layered structure, such armor design would be very difficult to place inside T-72M1 turret cavities.

T-90S used by India is a bit different story because turret is welded from rolled plates, and it's design permitts to use such armor.

Besides this, how do you know that cavity for Kanchan armor in case of Arjun is bigger than on T-90S? Did you done a proper meassurement on top of the turret from frontal to back weld for the cover plate of armor cavity? Or this is just assumption?

 

[The Last Stand]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

How do you use Kanchan on T-72M1? From Polish experiences it is nearly immposible to replace old armor in this tank cast turret. When our engineers tried to do so, every attempt to open cavity and replace composite filler, ended with serious structural damage of turret. This because of how turret is made and how composite filler is placed there during manufacturing process.

Besides this, Kanchan as far as I understand, is manufacturerd in form of large sheets of different materials composied in to layered structure, such armor design would be very difficult to place inside T-72M1 turret cavities.

T-90S used by India is a bit different story because turret is welded from rolled plates, and it's design permitts to use such armor.

India does not use Kanchan on the T-72.

T-90S armour ToT was denied by Russia initially. Since the first knock-down kits did not contain armour we replaced with Kanchan. Protection was comparable to original T-90 composite when Russia demonstrated T-90(with Russian composites) by firing western penetrators(most likely KEW-A1 or A2). The rounds did not penetrate either the normal T-90S or the T-90 with Kanchan armour.

Regards,
Keshav

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

According to latest DRDO PDF, They modified T-72M1 to use Kanchan..

I measured by hand, T-90S cavity is smaller to Arjun at frontal arc and can be noticed the size by naked eyes..

How do you use Kanchan on T-72M1?

Besides this, how do you know that cavity for Kanchan armor in case of Arjun is bigger than on T-90S? Did you done a proper meassurement on top of the turret from frontal to back weld for the cover plate of armor cavity? Or this is just assumption?

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

nice thread any can somebody please fill in about AMX-56 Leclerc tank please want to learn more about it

thank you

 

[Damian]

I measured by hand, T-90S cavity is smaller to Arjun at frontal arc and can be noticed the size by naked eyes..

I wonder if you done it properly, not to mention what means "by hand". As for noticing something naked eyes, I have huge doubts about reliability of such meassuring.

nice thread any can somebody please fill in about AMX-56 Leclerc tank please want to learn more about it

Perhaps more specific question? Because such question do not says what do you want to know more, and if you would want to know more, you should purchase some publication about Leclerc (it is not AMX-56, this designation code is made by some fanboy), but one good publication that I know is in french only.

 

[Austin]

via mp.net

T-72B with kontakt-5 era vs. T-90's 125mm heat rounds fired from 100meters distance

Испытания танка Т-72 с ДЗ «Контакт» - YouTube

In 1995 after chechnia campaign with K-5 ERA made a visual demonstration where properly geared up T-72 was shot at point blank 5 times in a row with different 125mm shaped/heat rounds without any penetration, it's a same tank just with ERA completely blown off and it came back on his own

 

[Andrei_bt]

Old rounds against tank which can protect against them - it is nothing.

 

[p2prada]

Old rounds against tank which can protect against them - it is nothing.

Those rounds are still functional in our threat environment.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

russians claim 850mm for T-90MS. 250mm for the K5 ERA plus 600mm for the main turret armour.
this is only for the extreme sides however(2/3 of the turret front), where the physical LOS thickness of the turret is ~850mm.
the remaining 1/3 is weaker.
for comparison physical LOS thickness of the leopard 2A4 turret is 800mm or so, and the germans claims 700mm vs KE.

What level of capability does the Relikt (the version on T-90MS) offer compared to our enemy's arsenal? I mean you said the remaining 1/3rd is less protected on it, so a comparison between T-90S, Arjun Mk1/2 and MS would be neat.

Also, I would hope your answer relates to what PA and PLA may possess, since this is more relevant to us.

 

[Austin]

T-90MS protection level figures was accidentally leaked , since the guy who was explaining to Putin did not realise that the media had extended mike over him from a distant even though the media was kept some distant during briefing , iirc the guy was saying to to putin 850 KE,1200 HEAT from front and side and rear was 550 HEAT

Its similar to the incident when Medvedev and obama spoke without knowning the mike was on.

On Relikt its Developer NII STALI had an article which i am linking below

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...le-tanks-armour-technology-99.html#post362175

 

[Damian]

~850mm vs KE and ~1,200mm vs CE is protection comparable to other modern tanks like newest M1's or Leo2's.

 

[militarysta]

those values are taken from space. No way. And consider the fact that modern APFSDS will slighty overcome obsolate ERA
like K5 or Relikt. So important is only base armour protection without ERA.

 

[The Last Stand]

those values are taken from space. No way. And consider the fact that modern APFSDS will slighty overcome obsolate ERA
like K5 or Relikt. So important is only base armour protection without ERA.

Sigh. Why are you so disbelieving of Russians? And how is Relikt obsolete?

 

[Damian]

And how is Relikt obsolete?

It is against new types of APFSDS ammunition designed to defeat such protection. The only really reliable type of ERA that have future perspectives is Ukrainian "Knife" and "Duplet" ERA, that instead of explosive material between steel plates working mechanism, use linear shaped charges as it's working mechanism, and it is damn effective.

 

[The Last Stand]

It is against new types of APFSDS ammunition designed to defeat such protection. The only really reliable type of ERA that have future perspectives is Ukrainian "Knife" and "Duplet" ERA, that instead of explosive material between steel plates working mechanism, use linear shaped charges as it's working mechanism, and it is damn effective.

What about Kaktus? Also I thought that Relikt was a modern design

 

[Austin]

Relikt is pretty much designed to defeat most modern APFSDS and CE .....that is what NII STALI the makers of Relikt have mentioned in that article.....its pretty good and effective.

Ofcourse Relikt was itself developed in 2006 and publicly unveiled in 2011 , if you go to NII STALI website they mentioned the dates when Cactus-5 and Relikt was developed.

Russians too are working on new gen armour and they have mentioned that Armata will have non explosive dynamic armour , perhaps some new NERA type or something else ....we will see when that happens.

 

[Damian]

What about Kaktus? Also I thought that Relikt was a modern design

"Kaktus" was experimental project, and is preaty much "dead".

"Relikt" is modern, but it's working mechanism is obsolete and without perspectives. Just accept that classic ERA, based on explosive material between steel plates is without perspectives, future belongs to linear shaped charges.

Relikt is pretty much designed to defeat most modern APFSDS and CE .....that is what NII STALI the makers of Relikt have mentioned in that article.....its pretty good and effective.

Ofcourse Relikt was itself developed in 2006 and publicly unveiled in 2011 , if you go to NII STALI website they mentioned the dates when Cactus-5 and Relikt was developed.

You should see results of "Duplet" ERA tests, "Kontakt-5" or "Relikt" are nowhere close to performance of "Duplet".

 

[Austin]

Ok can you provide information fro Duplet ERA test based on some information ?

 

[Damian]

Ok can you provide information fro Duplet ERA test based on some information ?

I will PM you ok?