Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[militarysta]

i forgot -about this:

ERAWA-2 ERA tiles – dubbed dynamic armor, these explosive blocks are designed to improve protection from anti-tank projectiles / missiles especially HEAT rounds. Tests by the manufacturer have shown a 50-70% increase in protection against HEAT rounds and a 30-40% increase against AP rounds.

ERAWA-2 can reduce single SC for more then 75%, double SC - less then 50%.
Of course this 30-40% against APFSDS is BS -> this value is from ERAWA test on old 3BM-15 so it is totally unreliable for newer APFSDS.

 

[SPIEZ]

SPIEZ




Ok, two important things:
1) I'll compare tanks from the time the tender for Malaysia: PT-91MZ and T-90S.
2) This upper is very important becouse basick PT-91 is better then T-72B only in FCS. But PT-91MZ (or PT-91Ex) is better tank then T-90S with erly turret.
It is obvious that T-90A and AS is better tank (except the engine, transmission, and BMS) then PT-91MZ.

But, as I said - I will write about T-90S and PT-91MZ

Again: PT-91 and PT-91M is one version of the tank (1995-2000), PT-91MZ or PT-91Ex is another, deeply modernized version of the tank (2003 -).
The same: T-90S with erly turret (1992- ~2000), and T-90SA (~2000 - ) with welded turret. Similar in name but a completely different in capabilities the machines.


FCS:

In T-90S you have old 1A45T Irtysz, with not modern TO1-KO1 (TPN4-49 Buran-PA) or TO1-PO2T (with AGAWA) , PNK-4S. Night vision Buran-PA is ~1200 is in passive mode. AGAWA is much better - it can find a tank with a max. 2500 m, but the range of identification is much much lower.

In PT-91 you have SAVAN-15 Sagem with CITV (VIGY-15) (You haven't CITVit in T-90S...). It's fully computerized FCS.
About SAVAN-15: http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D1385E_savan15.pdf Savan 15 FCS – The Drawa FCS is replaced by the French Savan 15 system, built by Sagem Defence Securite. The Savan 15 FCS is derived from a similar system used in the French Army's LeClerc MBT. The system features gun stabilization enabling the tank to fire on the move, increased first round hit probability and the ability to operate at night. The system consists of day/night gunner's sight, fire-control computer, gun stabilization sensors, lead-angle sensors and interface at the gunner's and commander's stations.
VIGY 15 optronics – also from Sagem, this is a gyro-stabilized panoramic sight for the tank commander. It has hunter-killer function – targets sighted by the TC are signalled to the gunner, or in emergencies, engaged by the TC himself.SIGMA 30 laser gyro – another Sagem product. The system is used for navigation and stabilization of the MBT. 2A46MS 125mm gun – a Slovak-designed weapon, it has a 23% increase in first hit probability as compared with the original Soviet 2A46. Ammunition includes APFSDS, HEAT and HE., and most important: full electrical stabilization EPS-91M fom Sagem
This all solutions is light-years distant from old Irtysz from T-90S with added AGAWA

Amunition.

Well. Basick HEAT and HE-FRAG are the same. But APFSDS - Russian offers what? Of course old BM-42 With PT-91M we offer definitely better IMI ammo (~460mm RHA for 2000m vs. 500-540mm RHA for 2000m).


Engine:

Simple. In T-90S you have old, ugly, fuel mass-eating W-84MS (840HP), or mod. W-92S2 (1000HP) But mechanical power transmission is the same like in T-72B. And it's suck. It's horrible -like in all T-72 clone...
In PT-92MZ we have S-1000R diesel engine – the original PT-91 are powered by S-12 engine of 850hp. The Malaysian PT-91M has the more powerful S-1000R, rated at 1,000hp. The engine is manufactured by PZL-Wola S.A. The most important is converter power transmission ESM-350-M form SESM Renk. This is a world class. Next: Mechanical Works Diehl tracks – the PT-91M replaces the all-steel tracks with Type 570P track from Diehl Remscheid GmbH which have long service life and low maintenance requirements. It is similar to the ones used in Leopard 2 MBT

Protection.

Basick amrour PT-91MZ is about 500mm RHA vs APFSDS. Propably in thickest turet part. So it's between late T-72M1 (1988) and T-72B. But: ERAWA-2 ERA tiles – dubbed dynamic armor, these explosive blocks are designed to improve protection from anti-tank projectiles / missiles especially HEAT rounds. Tests by the manufacturer have shown a 50-70% increase in protection against HEAT rounds and a 30-40% increase against AP rounds. The ERAWA system consists of 384 blocks (108 turret, 118 hull and 84 on each side of the anti-cumulative screen@side-skirt) Coverage is much tighter with ERAWA than with Kontact-5. With ERAWA virtually there is no gaps. Next is polish PCO SSP-1 Obra-3 laser warning system – it's simmilar to the Sthora-1 . It's placed on each quadrant of the MBT, the system gives warning that the tank is being 'painted' by laser – whether rangefinding or targeting. This allows the crew to find the direction of the laser emission and deal with it accordingly. + wageman granades.

then rest later - if I find time

It was a good read, Obviously Russians would debate.
But finally i believe I ve talked to someone in this thread with true knowledge.
Can you tell me more about the W-92S2 (1000HP) engine ???

 

[Damian]

Coverage is much tighter with ERAWA than with Kontact-5. With ERAWA virtually there is no gaps.

This is actually interesting thing to debate, if it is possible to design heavy ERA that tightly covers vehicle. ERAWA being only advanced light ERA don't need big cassettes, and with smaller cassettes more tight covarage is possible.

So the question is : do classic heavy ERA can be used in much smaller cassettes? Or such cassettes can be used only in types like ChSCzKW-19/34 where there are no plates with explosive between? Maybe this new Dynamic Protection without explosives that is currently under R&D program by NII Stali, can be placed in smaller cassettes or will be placed in unified modules.

 

[Austin]

T-90MS Firepower (in english )

 

[Damian]

Hmmm, it's interesting how Gur Khan and Andrei (Harkonnen) will fight with each other.

 

[Anshu Attri]

Hi-Res T-90MS video

Defunct Humanity: Hi-Res T-90MS video
High-resolution T-90MS (early variant) testing video is published in Internet. It's a part of UVZ corporative presentation ( on 9:45 min). The language is Russian, however, no new verbal information is included.УВЗ - видео-презентация :: Вы смотрите канал: Gur_Khan :: :: Видео на RuTube�

 

[laltaputu]

a nice video of new T 90 AM
"Flying" battle tank T-90MS "TAGIL" in action.mp4 - YouTube

 

[Kunal Biswas]

[h=2]Old tanks, new missiles[/h]The Defense Ministry's implementation of the largest rearmament program in history

Andrey Kompaneyets *The Defense Ministry plans to spend 19 trillion rubles on a rearmament program before 2020. Trud learned how the project, comparable to Peter the Great's reforms, is being implemented today.


The military-industrial complex has received an order for the development of a new battle tank from the Defense Ministry. This information was shared with Trud by a high-ranking source in the Defense Ministry. "We have conveyed our vision of what this machine should be like to the developers. I think that they will have something in two to three years," he said.


Meanwhile, the testing, state approval, and establishing mass production of an entirely new machine usually requires at least a year and a half. "Defense factories generally do not like to adhere to deadlines," said the representative. Troops will, most likely, not be getting a worthy rival to Western tanks until 2016.


But in order to secure the homeland borders before the new land vehicle is ready, military officials plan to update old tanks. Russia's largest producer of armored vehicles, UralVagonZavod, has already received an order from the ministry for the modernization of the T-72 battle tank, which was put into service by the USSR in 1972.


However, the Defense Ministry source confirmed that, following modernization, the army will be getting entirely new machines: "We will be spending 38 million rubles on each tank: the turrets, transmission and engine systems will be replaced, leaving only the original hull. The tanks' combat capability will be similar to the T-90 models," he explained.

Meanwhile, the source said that the ministry does not intend to purchase the T-90 AM model, which was shown to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at the most recent exhibition in Nizhny Tagil. This model is an upgraded version of the T-90.


From: Old tanks, new missiles — RT



Originally Posted by Austin in Mp.net..

 

[Damian]

"We will be spending 38 million rubles on each tank: the turrets, transmission and engine systems will be replaced, leaving only the original hull.

Interesting, new turrets will definetly be welded, hull of T-72 series and T-90 series is allmost the same design, so in fact by changing turret to new welded one and changing basic armor of hull front glacis pate they can upgrade these T-72's to T-90A standard.

 

[bhramos]

Indian army tanks in action

 

[Austin]

Interesting, new turrets will definetly be welded, hull of T-72 series and T-90 series is allmost the same design, so in fact by changing turret to new welded one and changing basic armor of hull front glacis pate they can upgrade these T-72's to T-90A standard.

Gur Khan attacks!: Модернизация танков Т-72

Gur Khan: about modernization of the T-72 is worth recalling that in modernizatsion packet include: new gun 2A46M-5, five-channel LMS with a view "Pine-U", the engine B-92S2 in 1000hp., Transmission, gearbox, new digital communications etc. For a sum slightly exceeding $ 1000000 it's not expensive!

 

[Damian]

I wonder if India after T-90 production will end, could upgrade T-72 tanks to T-90 standard by upgrading hulls and replacing old turrets with newer ones?

It would definetly increase combat values of these tanks and armor corps.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I wonder if India after T-90 production will end, could upgrade T-72 tanks to T-90 standard by upgrading hulls and replacing old turrets with newer ones?

It would definetly increase combat values of these tanks and armor corps.

One option is to replace with home made tanks..

Better for future..

 

[ace009]

I sincerely hope IA replaces all T-72s with Arjuns or Karan MBTs. Otherwise 10 years from now, we will have the same problems with the T-72s as we face for Mig-21s - only difference being the T-72s will be blown into the sky before they fall down ...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Future is mainly for MK-2 and MK-3 / FMBT..

T-90S upgrades are final and it will be implemented on remaining T-90S..

 

[p2prada]

I wonder if India after T-90 production will end, could upgrade T-72 tanks to T-90 standard by upgrading hulls and replacing old turrets with newer ones?

It would definetly increase combat values of these tanks and armor corps.

Our T-72s will be very old by then. Expected end to T-90 production is only 2020.

The T-72s may be replaced by a new tank. I don't think simply upgrading the T-72s to T-90A standards will be enough against whatever Pak or China plans to field by then. However the T-72 is expected to get smaller upgrades like electronics and ERA.

 

[Austin]

The plan as far as I know is to replace the T-72 by FMBT when it comes online , one of the reason IA wants the FMBT to be under 50T

 

[Damian]

FMBT is a very complex problem You know, if someone want here a ~50 ton vehicle this means two different approaches in design, or India will stick to Russian/Ukrainian design philosophy, because it is just immposible to design well protected tank under western tank design philosophy with a weight of only 50 tons... well at least now it is impossible, maybe armor in future will be as strong as today but much lighter, who knows.

The 2nd approach is small vehicles with crew in hull and unmanned turret, it can be light and well protected, but such design is much more complex and even much more experienced countries in MBT designing were abale only to design prototypes due to very high costs of such vehicles (and lack of political support for these projects).

But surely when someone will take this first step and field such next generation MBT, we can be sure that others will do the same very quickly.

 

[militarysta]

Destroyed, hit, and damage tanks:

Forum MILITIS - MBT po ostrzale, zdjêcia trafionych wozów, pora¿enia.

good link to polish forum, better photos

 

[militarysta]

from: Forum MILITIS - AMX-56 Leclerc vol II