Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

If Tanks have to evolve, which path they should follow?

  • Light Vehicles-Best for mobility

    Votes: 14 5.7%
  • Heavy Armour-Can take heavy punishment.

    Votes: 41 16.6%
  • Modular Design-Allowing dynamic adaptions.

    Votes: 144 58.3%
  • Universal Platform-Best for logistics.

    Votes: 48 19.4%

  • Total voters
    247

Bleh

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No tank can withstand even basic ATGM unless APS (active protection system) is installed. India needs to speed up installing APS from Israel or SAAB South Africa ASAP.
Hah! LEDS-150 soft-hard kill APS was declared to be chosen for T-90s years ago... still haven't seen a single one with it installed.
 

Akim

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No tank can withstand even basic ATGM unless APS (active protection system) is installed. India needs to speed up installing APS from Israel or SAAB South Africa ASAP.
Any tank is vulnerable. APS is effective against partisans. If two regular armies collide, the density of fire dramatically reduces effectiveness.
 

Wisemarko

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IDF Protects Eitan APCs and D9 Bulldozers With Iron-Fists
Aug 20, 2019

0
Israel’s Ministry of Defense announced today the selection of Elbit Systems’ Iron-Fist Active Protection System (APS) for the protection of some of the IDF combat and combat support armored vehicles. The selection followed a competitive evaluation of several APS solutions.

IMOD selected a new variant of the Iron-Fist, known as Light-Decoupled (IF-LD) version, a decoupled configuration that evolved from the first generation Iron-First originally developed by IMI in competition to Rafael’s Trophy APS. The Trophy is currently installed on IDF Merkava Mk4 and Mk3 Main Battle Tanks and various variants of the Namer heavy infantry fighting vehicle.

IF-LD uses independent optical sensors, tracking radar, rotatable launchers, and countermeasure munitions to defeat threats at a safe distance from the defended vehicle. The system provides 360-degree protection coverage for close-range scenarios in both open terrain and urban environments. Compact size and low weight make it more adaptable to smaller and lighter combat vehicles. Compared to wall-mounted APS, IF-LD defeats threats at a distance from the protected vehicle, thus eliminating the probability of residual penetration and simplify integration with the platform, particularly on turreted configurations.
 

asianobserve

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General Dynamics unveils its new ‘light tank’ concept called "Griffin II"


The Griffin II is a new combat vehicle to support infantry brigade combat teams — a lightweight vehicle that can be airlifted into battle and maneuver, dispersed if necessary, in close-quarters urban terrain, but with lethal long-range firepower to take out enemy armored vehicles.


According to the current information, the new medium-weight, a large-caliber vehicle intends to boost the firepower of airborne and other light infantry units and was designed under for the U.S. Army’s Mobile Protected Firepower program.

The U.S. Army expects that new ‘light tank’ will be a 38-ton tracked armored vehicle capable to provide Soldiers with speed, protection, lethality and the ability to wage a multidomain battle, working in concert with other ground forces to overwhelm the enemy with multiple simultaneous challenges.

The new “light tank” will have improved armor and a 120 mm main gun that reminds the Abrams’ 120 mm cannon. Griffin’s turret is a scaled-down version of the M1 Abrams turret designed to engage in combat with tanks and other armoured vehicles.

https://defence-blog.com/army/general-dynamics-unveils-its-new-light-tank-concept.html


It's a mini Abrams...
 

BON PLAN

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General Dynamics unveils its new ‘light tank’ concept called "Griffin II"


The Griffin II is a new combat vehicle to support infantry brigade combat teams — a lightweight vehicle that can be airlifted into battle and maneuver, dispersed if necessary, in close-quarters urban terrain, but with lethal long-range firepower to take out enemy armored vehicles.


According to the current information, the new medium-weight, a large-caliber vehicle intends to boost the firepower of airborne and other light infantry units and was designed under for the U.S. Army’s Mobile Protected Firepower program.

The U.S. Army expects that new ‘light tank’ will be a 38-ton tracked armored vehicle capable to provide Soldiers with speed, protection, lethality and the ability to wage a multidomain battle, working in concert with other ground forces to overwhelm the enemy with multiple simultaneous challenges.

The new “light tank” will have improved armor and a 120 mm main gun that reminds the Abrams’ 120 mm cannon. Griffin’s turret is a scaled-down version of the M1 Abrams turret designed to engage in combat with tanks and other armoured vehicles.

https://defence-blog.com/army/general-dynamics-unveils-its-new-light-tank-concept.html


It's a mini Abrams...
A very good idea. The actual MBT are logistic nightmares.
 

Wisemarko

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Indian Army wishes to acquire the much sought after Active Protection Systems
-Jaison Deepak


Just when shoulder fired and guided anti-tank weapons looked to gain the upper hand in the ongoing asymmetric conflicts around the world, Active Protection Systems (APS) have breathed fresh life into armoured forces. Ongoing conflicts have demonstrated that tanks face threats 360 degree in the current irregular conflict and conventional assumptions of protection of the frontal 60 arc have been proven inadequate.


Rafael’s Trophy HV MK4
Incorporating all-round passive protection can be an engineering impossibility considering the tremendous weight increase. The Indian Army has expressed keen interest in equipping its tank units with an APS but procurement hasn’t materialised because of the immaturity of the trialled systems, power constraints and single vendor situation. T-90S which would be the primary candidate for an APS system has space constraints and its Auxiliary Power systems might not be sufficient enough to support the APS, but the new T-90MS being procured has a new APU just behind the left sprocket wheel. However, the variant India would receive will be without Arena APS.

APS can be evaluated primarily on the parameters — sensor threat detection range, reaction time, types of countermeasures, threat interception range, jamming resistance, interception methodology and multi-shot interception capability additionally engineering parameters such as size, weight and power consumption will also be considered. APS has two types of sensors active (Millimeter Wave radar, Light Detection and Ranging) passive (Laser Warning Receiver, Ultra Violet missile warning system) the sensor information is fed to the countermeasures which can be from soft-kill or hard-kill. The soft-kill countermeasures consist of multispectral aerosol smoke grenades which can blind all missiles including fire and forget missiles, Electro-Optical/ Infrared (EO/IR) jammers can jam Semi-Active Command Line of Sight (SACLOS) missiles which constitute 70 per cent of the current missile threat. They are simpler systems which require directional information from sensors.


Hard-kill countermeasures use kinetic means to destroy or disable or deflect incoming projectiles, they require more precise positional information including direction, elevation, distance and velocity of the projectile. The future challenge for APS is in intercepting Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) rounds which travel at velocities of 1500m/s-1800m/s which is six-eight times faster than missiles. Ideally the Indian Army would look to incorporate both countermeasures to maximise the survivability by adding more layers to the proverbial survivability onion peel.

The Rafael Trophy Active Protection System is currently being used by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) on the Merkava-4 and the NAMER armoured vehicle. The system comes in multiple variants Heavy-Vehicle (60 Ton), Medium-Vehicle (30 Ton), Light-Vehicle (Under 10 Ton) depending on the weight of the vehicle on which the system goes on. It uses multiple flat panel radars which track the incoming projectile and launch hard-kill countermeasures, the hard-kill mechanism consists of a launcher which fires Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP) at the incoming threat.
http://forceindia.net/feature-report/protective-gear/


Arena-3 APS
Tamir Eshel

A new active protection system from Russia appeared today at RAE-2013, as part of the display of a series of upgrades offered to The T-72 main battle tanks. The new system, dubbed Arena-3 covers 360 degrees in four quadrants with four modules, which seems to comprise two sensors two effectors. According to the manufacturer, two targets can be intercepted at each direction, at 0.3 second intervals. The system is effective at elevation of +20 degrees and -6 degrees. It is designed to intercept projectiles and missiles at a distance of 50 meters from the protected tank. The previous configuration included multiple effectors and a high profile radar that has not received well among tank crews. According to the tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod, the system is effective at target velocity of 70-1000 meter/second (pertaining to RPGs, anti-tank missiles and HEAT tank rounds). The upgraded T-72 with Arena-3 weighs 46.5 tons.
 
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Assassin 2.0

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Indian Army wishes to acquire the much sought after Active Protection Systems
-Jaison Deepak


Just when shoulder fired and guided anti-tank weapons looked to gain the upper hand in the ongoing asymmetric conflicts around the world, Active Protection Systems (APS) have breathed fresh life into armoured forces. Ongoing conflicts have demonstrated that tanks face threats 360 degree in the current irregular conflict and conventional assumptions of protection of the frontal 60 arc have been proven inadequate.


Rafael’s Trophy HV MK4
Incorporating all-round passive protection can be an engineering impossibility considering the tremendous weight increase. The Indian Army has expressed keen interest in equipping its tank units with an APS but procurement hasn’t materialised because of the immaturity of the trialled systems, power constraints and single vendor situation. T-90S which would be the primary candidate for an APS system has space constraints and its Auxiliary Power systems might not be sufficient enough to support the APS, but the new T-90MS being procured has a new APU just behind the left sprocket wheel. However, the variant India would receive will be without Arena APS.

APS can be evaluated primarily on the parameters — sensor threat detection range, reaction time, types of countermeasures, threat interception range, jamming resistance, interception methodology and multi-shot interception capability additionally engineering parameters such as size, weight and power consumption will also be considered. APS has two types of sensors active (Millimeter Wave radar, Light Detection and Ranging) passive (Laser Warning Receiver, Ultra Violet missile warning system) the sensor information is fed to the countermeasures which can be from soft-kill or hard-kill. The soft-kill countermeasures consist of multispectral aerosol smoke grenades which can blind all missiles including fire and forget missiles, Electro-Optical/ Infrared (EO/IR) jammers can jam Semi-Active Command Line of Sight (SACLOS) missiles which constitute 70 per cent of the current missile threat. They are simpler systems which require directional information from sensors.


Hard-kill countermeasures use kinetic means to destroy or disable or deflect incoming projectiles, they require more precise positional information including direction, elevation, distance and velocity of the projectile. The future challenge for APS is in intercepting Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) rounds which travel at velocities of 1500m/s-1800m/s which is six-eight times faster than missiles. Ideally the Indian Army would look to incorporate both countermeasures to maximise the survivability by adding more layers to the proverbial survivability onion peel.

The Rafael Trophy Active Protection System is currently being used by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) on the Merkava-4 and the NAMER armoured vehicle. The system comes in multiple variants Heavy-Vehicle (60 Ton), Medium-Vehicle (30 Ton), Light-Vehicle (Under 10 Ton) depending on the weight of the vehicle on which the system goes on. It uses multiple flat panel radars which track the incoming projectile and launch hard-kill countermeasures, the hard-kill mechanism consists of a launcher which fires Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP) at the incoming threat.
http://forceindia.net/feature-report/protective-gear/
India should buy tot of this tank and start production in india. But maintance will be a challenge because we are operating Russian tanks for a long time and our factories are tuned to build it's spares.
Now i also think india will buy tons of US made weapons :rofl::confused1:
If they give tot.
 

Wisemarko

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India should buy tot of this tank and start production in india. But maintance will be a challenge because we are operating Russian tanks for a long time and our factories are tuned to build it's spares.
Now i also think india will buy tons of US made weapons :rofl::confused1:
If they give tot.
ToT won’t be difficult considering plethora of systems available. But integration will be challenging due to lack of electric power on older T-90/T-72. Even soft-kill systems draw lot of electricity. Smaller size of T-series also makes full installation of APS difficult. “Lite” versions of Trophy, Arena and LEDS might way to go.
 

Assassin 2.0

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ToT won’t be difficult considering plethora of systems available. But integration will be challenging due to lack of electric power on older T-90/T-72. Even soft-kill systems draw lot of electricity.
After recent visit of modi to US with new tiger triumph exercise which will involve tri services of both of the nation will make Chinese shake a little. Looks like india US alliance can finally happen. o_O:notbad:
 

Wisemarko

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After recent visit of modi to US with new tiger triumph exercise which will involve tri services of both of the nation will make Chinese shake a little. Looks like india US alliance can finally happen. o_O:notbad:
It should happen. India needs to take that final step and use US strategic needs to improve local defense industry. US government is open to unprecedented leniency towards India which India should use to own benefit. India can become tier 1 supplier (and learn the basics of how to produce sophisticated raw materials, test, integrate etc) in many US made defense products. India can do in defense what China did with consumer products. First learn basics and then make the whole thing.

Today, even screws of SU-30 are imported from Russians.* Cannot have top end defense industry without learning the ground game. There can be no better defense partner than US. Look at South Korea, Japan, Germans, UK, Australia- they all benefit from close US cooperation.

*https://www.defensenews.com/industr...s-may-shut-down-toppling-400-local-suppliers/
 

Assassin 2.0

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It should happen. India needs to take that final step and use US strategic needs to improve local defense industry. US government is open to leniency for India like never before. India can become tier 1 supplier (and learn the basics of how to produce sophisticated raw materials, test, integrate etc) in many US made defense products. Today, even screws of SU-30 are imported from Russians.* Cannot have top end defense industry without learning the ground game. There can be no better defense partner than US. Look at South Korea, Japan, Germans, UK, Australia- they all benefit from close US cooperation.

*https://www.defensenews.com/industr...s-may-shut-down-toppling-400-local-suppliers/
India is looking forward with multi alliance.
This meet between modi and trump whole india saw this and this boost public trust and shows level of cooperation is happening between two nations .
Indians love to give good hospitality and when trump will visit india he will find that too. (cultural thing)

Well it's a long way to go for any country to match with Russia in india defence market the reason is because we are tuned to there weapons. There are service centers. Technology transfers. Nuclear technology. India still holds 70-80% Russian /soviet systems. India already had tons of Russian small Russian air defence system so for us connecting S-400 to them was easier. We also bought 30 more su-30mki.

Well i don't think anyone will give jet engine technology. Which is the crown jewel of the country.
So we have to develop that in home. Hypersonics amca tejas mk2 all of these jets will use American engines eventually.
It's in our national interest to keep Russia in influence.
Well US-india defence trade is already 18 billion $
But no one gives there technology. They are researched and developed. So only way is to develop hame made capabilities.
Uk Germany south korea don't have the level of threats which we have.
Only way forward for india is indigenous systems we cannot spend billions to takle cheap Chinese systems.
Basics we already know we are manufacturing mig-21 from 90s. Tejas mk1a 30+83 ordered 50% jet is getting build by private sector. Rest by HAL. 75-80% funds stays in the country.
Shutting down of 400 companies shows this many firms used to build spares for su-30.
And American offer in MMRCA is shit IAF and public will never like a jet which is used by Pakistan.

In short no one gives key technology.
Made in india is the only way forward for india.

 
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bhramos

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Modernized #Turkish M60TM tank with laser warning system, remotely controlled turret, telescopic periscope, #AKKOR Pulat active protection complex (KAZ).


 

sthf

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A very good idea. The actual MBT are logistic nightmares.
Apart from Leclerc, French army is going all wheeled formations. That along with the new GTIA organisation is working out well in CI/CT ops in Mali. I have some doubts about the conventional war part.

Do you have some reading material for MBT or other sorts of logistics?
 

BON PLAN

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Apart from Leclerc, French army is going all wheeled formations. That along with the new GTIA organisation is working out well in CI/CT ops in Mali. I have some doubts about the conventional war part.

Do you have some reading material for MBT or other sorts of logistics?
sorry, No .
 

bhramos

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Kunal Biswas

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How has the modern tank battlefield changed and what can we expect to see in the future for the main battle tank and mechanized forces around the world. Surprisingly its not what we all sometimes think it would be.
 

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