Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

No, no, you should count it like this: weight of ERA + mine plough + additional equipment + additional wiring + fuel + ammunition + crew. Perhaps provided weight is combat weight when vehicle is fully loaded with fuel, ammo and crew is inside, while empty weight is smaller.

 

[navkapu]

The composition of the armour?

But don't you think that 5-6 metric tons for only wires seems to be a bit much??Of course you would know better but still......

 

[Blood+]

No, no, you should count it like this: weight of ERA + mine plough + additional equipment + additional wiring + fuel + ammunition + crew. Perhaps provided weight is combat weight when vehicle is fully loaded with fuel, ammo and crew is inside, while empty weight is smaller.

Well the 58.5 ton of MkI is also the combat weight with fuel+ammo,the empty weight is lower.So the 68 ton combat weight of MkII is 9-10 metric ton heavier than combat load of MkI,so the difference of empty weight between MkI and MkII will be more or less same.

The ERA is ~1.5 ton,mine plough is also ~1.5 ton and RCWS+Laser warning system+COAPS+wiring shouldn't be more than ~1.2 ton.That makes an addition of ~4.2 metric ton over the MkI and weight should stand at ~63 metric ton.So where is the extra 5 ton coming from??

I just hope you were right that someone made a mistake while reporting.

 

[Blood+]

By the way @Damian sir,what is the combat weight of late model Leopard 2A4s??If we know the weight of Leo2A4,then we should be able to estimate combat weight of Arjun MkI.
Thanks in advance....

 

[Damian]

Don't know. Most times provided weight is not specified if it is dry or combat weight. But as far as we know, Leopard 2A4 weight is around 55 metric tons.

 

[Sovngard]

Leopard 2A4 :

Empty weight : 52 000 kg*
Combat weight : 55 150 kg

*without ammunitions, diesel fuel, transmission fluid and the engine coolant.



Could we have a source about the fact that there were two armor packages for the Leo 2A4 ?

 

[navkapu]

Kanchan Armour Composition has been changed

 

[militarysta]

http://www.promocja.wat.edu.pl/Glos_Akademicki/Glos_PDF/2014/GA_02_www.pdf

Pages 14-15

Polish project of the simple APS countr only HEAT warhed RPG's and ATGM's.

Those APS consist:
a) radar detector
b) electrooptical detector
c) central comand unit
and countrmeausers:
a) close range shrapnel destroyer ("destruktor") in form simmilar to the AMAP-ADS modules
b) long range "barrel destroyer" ("destruktor lufowy") whit "anti-missile" -in fact it's lunched tube whit sharpnels - this part is very simmilar to the Soviet/Russian Drozd and Drozd2 APS system.

What is interesting in polish APS:
- two method of detection - radar and electrooptic
- two diffrent contrmeusres - long range and close ranege. Both are working on shrapnell idea.
Propably those APS will be multichannel.

 

[Blood+]

Kanchan Armour Composition has been changed

Are you sure about that??

 

[Blood+]

Leopard 2A4 :

Empty weight : 52 000 kg*
Combat weight : 55 150 kg

*without ammunitions, diesel fuel, transmission fluid and the engine coolant.




Could we have a source about the fact that there were two armor packages for the Leo 2A4 ?

So if it's true,then the 58.5 metric ton almost certainly has to be combat weight of Arjun MkI because both the MkI and Leo2A4 is of almost similar dimension and the A4 has more amount of armor than Arjun MkI........what say @Damian @militarysta??

By the way @Damian,do you know of any particular books or research papers or web sites that describes working procedures of gun stabilisation systems and digital fire control systems of modern MBTs like Leclerc or M1A2SEP??

And lastly,are the Saudi M1A2s come equipped with the DU heavy alloy grills into their armor cavity or not??

Thanks in advance............

 

[Blood+]

Leopard 2A4 :

Empty weight : 52 000 kg*
Combat weight : 55 150 kg

*without ammunitions, diesel fuel, transmission fluid and the engine coolant.




Could we have a source about the fact that there were two armor packages for the Leo 2A4 ?

So if it's true,then the 58.5 metric ton almost certainly has to be combat weight of Arjun MkI because both the MkI and Leo2A4 is of almost similar dimension and the A4 has more amount of armor than Arjun MkI........what say @Damian @militarysta??

By the way @Damian,do you know of any particular books or research papers or web sites that describes working procedures of gun stabilisation systems and digital fire control systems of modern MBTs like Leclerc or M1A2SEP??

And lastly,are the Saudi M1A2s come equipped with the DU heavy alloy grills into their armor cavity or not??

Thanks in advance............

 

[Damian]

So if it's true,then the 58.5 metric ton almost certainly has to be combat weight of Arjun MkI because both the MkI and Leo2A4 is of almost similar dimension and the A4 has more amount of armor than Arjun MkI.

Well, Leopard 2 is smaller than Arjun Mk1/Mk2, have less internal volume, but indeed, it have more of it's surface protected by composite armor.

By the way @Damian,do you know of any particular books or research papers or web sites that describes working procedures of gun stabilisation systems and digital fire control systems of modern MBTs like Leclerc or M1A2SEP??

No, I never seen any ood book, describing this in detail.

And lastly,are the Saudi M1A2s come equipped with the DU heavy alloy grills into their armor cavity or not??

No, Depleted Uranium alloy is forbidden by Congress for export. Originally Saudi Arabian M1A2's received what we know as Export Armor Package, don't ask from what it is made, it's still classified.

However recent agreement between USA and KSA, says that Saudi M1A2's, that are modernized in USA to the M1A2S standard, will receive some equipment like radios, that were designed and are manufactured in KSA, what is interesting, KSA engineers developed their own composite armor, and USA agreed to install their armor on M1A2S.

 

[Blood+]

Well,I know the Arjun MkI is somewhat bigger than Leopard 2A4 but would it enough to jack up the weight of Arjun MkI by ~6.4 metric tons over A4 if we take their empty weight to be 58.5 tons and 52.1 tons respectively??!!I mean Arjun can not be that much bigger......can it??

 

[militarysta]

I mean Arjun can not be that much bigger......can it??

Sorry, I was busy at work.

Yes, Arjun can be much bigger. It's Turret width is much bigger then in Leo-2A4.

Well the 58.5 ton of MkI is also the combat weight with fuel+ammo,the empty weight is lower.So the 68 ton combat weight of MkII is 9-10 metric ton heavier than combat load of MkI,so the difference of empty weight between MkI and MkII will be more or less same.

The ERA is ~1.5 ton,mine plough is also ~1.5 ton and RCWS+Laser warning system+COAPS+wiring shouldn't be more than ~1.2 ton.That makes an addition of ~4.2 metric ton over the MkI and weight should stand at ~63 metric ton.So where is the extra 5 ton coming from??

Well IMHO aditional ERA on Arjun Mk.II on it's HULL and TURRET will weight mucht more then 1,5ton.
This 1500kg was given for Kontakt-5 on hull and turret T-72B model 1989 or erly T-90.
When sover is mucht better and there are more tiles -for egsample for Relict ERA on T-72B "Rogatak" we have ERA weight 2,3-3t (2300-3000kg). Arjun Mk.II have less covered area but it's mucht bigger, and IMHO it will be circa 2500kg for ERA.
Propably Your estimatous about "RCWS+Laser warning system+COAPS+wiring" are more or less possible - IMHO it will be circa 1500kg.
So whole addons can give weight circa 4000kg over Arjun Mk.I.

So combat weight of the Arjun Mk.I 58,5t + 4t "addons" = 62,5 maybe 63t. So we have "missing" 5000kg.

It can be due to better (more "heavy" armour. But we don;t have a confirm yet. But it's good path to follow it.

 

[Blood+]

Sorry, I was busy at work.

Yes, Arjun can be much bigger. It's Turret width is much bigger then in Leo-2A4.



Well IMHO aditional ERA on Arjun Mk.II on it's HULL and TURRET will weight mucht more then 1,5ton.
This 1500kg was given for Kontakt-5 on hull and turret T-72B model 1989 or erly T-90.
When sover is mucht better and there are more tiles -for egsample for Relict ERA on T-72B "Rogatak" we have ERA weight 2,3-3t (2300-3000kg). Arjun Mk.II have less covered area but it's mucht bigger, and IMHO it will be circa 2500kg for ERA.
Propably Your estimatous about "RCWS+Laser warning system+COAPS+wiring" are more or less possible - IMHO it will be circa 1500kg.
So whole addons can give weight circa 4000kg over Arjun Mk.I.

So combat weight of the Arjun Mk.I 58,5t + 4t "addons" = 62,5 maybe 63t. So we have "missing" 5000kg.

It can be due to better (more "heavy" armour. But we don;t have a confirm yet. But it's good path to follow it.

Thanks man.I know that Arjun's turret is quite wider than that of Leopard 2A4 but is it enough to increase its weight by more than 6 tons if we take their respective empty weights to be 52.1 ton for A4 and 58.5 ton for Arjun MkI??More so when Arjun has lesser portion of surface covered with composite armor.
All I'm trying to convey here is that since I don't know for sure whether the 58.5 ton of Arjun MkI is its empty weight or combat weight,I could only guess here.But it seems to me more logical that 58.5 ton is actually the combat weight of MkI if we take the 52.1 ton empty weight for Leopard 2A4 to be true.
By the way, I thought the panels on the MkII glacis were NERA/NExRA tiles and not ERA tiles.

 

[militarysta]

.
By the way, I thought the panels on the MkII glacis were NERA/NExRA tiles and not ERA tiles.

Rather NERA, NxRA, but weight is not more less then in conventional ERA case in this scenario.

IMHO Arjun II and Arjun I weight issue needs more attencion.

 

[militarysta]

.
By the way, I thought the panels on the MkII glacis were NERA/NExRA tiles and not ERA tiles.

Rather NERA, NxRA, but weight is not more less then in conventional ERA case in this scenario.

IMHO Arjun II and Arjun I weight issue needs more attencion.

 

[Blood+]

Rather NERA, NxRA, but weight is not more less then in conventional ERA case in this scenario.

IMHO Arjun II and Arjun I weight issue needs more attencion.

Yeah,right.By the way your english seems to have improved quite a lot over time........impressive!!

 

[militarysta]

Yeah,right.By the way your english seems to have improved quite a lot over time........impressive!!

Thank you!

In fact im account manager in some company in Poland, my spoken english is quite fluent, but indeed I have a real problem whit writing :-/ And when im in hurry or extremly tierd Im making serious mistakes in my writing english.
Well - I'm a child this strange era in Poland history when russian language wasn't teacht good enought - becouse it was pasee in 1990s but english was not good too - becouse lack of the english tatchers in schools ;-)

Am I comunist victim?

 

[Blood+]

Thank you!

In fact im account manager in some company in Poland, my spoken english is quite fluent, but indeed I have a real problem whit writing :-/ And when im in hurry or extremly tierd Im making serious mistakes in my writing english.
Well - I'm a child this strange era in Poland history when russian language wasn't teacht good enought - becouse it was pasee in 1990s but english was not good too - becouse lack of the english tatchers in schools ;-)

Am I comunist victim?

LOL.......communist victim!!

And I'm from state of West Bengal - a state which has been run by communists for 35 years till 2011.And now....now they have been replaced by a even more fanatical and delusional pseudo commie government.It's a good thing you guys woke up.....I just wish I could tell the same about my state.