Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Waffen SS]

WaffenSS supports Germany's Anschluß with Austria. He's started an extremely stupid thread with a (typically for him) moronic understanding of what he refers to as "Austria" (he meant Austro-Hungarian Empire) and "Prussia" (haven't even tried to guess what he meant by that).

India seems to be picking up the Persian/ Arab like of Hitler, and lack of negativity (or open support) towards the Soviet Union. Apparently, in their minds, embracing the memory of both revolutionary Communism and the Third Reich isn't ambiguous.

Man you know what you are talking about?

Greater Germany either make Germany with Austria or smaller Germany with out Austria. Austria simply did not want to give up under Prussian dominance(these 2 were rivals in Germany)

German question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ever heard of this?

March 12, 1938: Annexation Austrian-Style - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Adolph Hitler himself was Austrian.

As for Challenger 1 concerned firstly it came in 1983 not in 1960's, in 1980's USSR was India's best friend T 72 is from 1970's and it played key role then. in addition T 72 is lighter than Challenger 1 heavy tanks cant role in India's all places.

T 72 weights 41.5 Tonnes and challenger 1 62 Tonnes.

And rifled guns are not cheaper.

 

[apple]

Rifled gun are easier to make and cheaper to use ? that is new to me ..

It is if you've got a warehouse full of unused barrels and an existing production line to make new ones, it would certainly be cheaper and easier.

The Vijayanta was what I was talking about. Although, wiki tells me they have 105mm guns, not the 120 mm gun that (wiki tells me) Arjun's use. But still, if you're already set up for, and have experience in making rifled barrels, I'd suspect that it would be cheaper and easier to go with what you know than take a risk on, and set up, a new manufacturing process

 

[apple]

Sorry for lying to before WaffenSS, when I said I'd only reply to you once. But, wasn't aware this site had a ignore function, which I activated for your posts now.

So, this time for sure, This is my last reply to you.

The idea of me using this site with out being exposed to you, or your ilk

Man you know what you are talking about?

Yes, I do. Modern European History was one of minor subjects at University.

Greater Germany either make Germany with Austria or smaller Germany with out Austria. Austria simply did not want to give up under Prussian dominance(these 2 were rivals in Germany)

As a quick lesson, because I can't be bothered educating you anymore, when you are discussing the past, use dates so people know when and what your talking about. And, as Damien, et. al. have already told you read a book, not Wiki.

German question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ever heard of this? Ever heard of deutsche Sprache?

March 12, 1938: Annexation Austrian-Style - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Adolph Hitler himself was Austrian.

WaffenSS supports Germany's Anschluß with Austria..

As for Challenger 1

they were a pre Challenger 1 1960's(???) .

concerned firstly it came in 1983 not in 1960's, in 1980's USSR was India's best friend T 72 is from 1970's and it played key role then. in addition T 72 is lighter than Challenger 1 heavy tanks cant role in India's all places.

T 72 weights 41.5 Tonnes and challenger 1 62 Tonnes.

And rifled guns are not cheaper.

Presume, a rifled gun and is was cheaper, and easier, to use the same(/similiar???) gun to one you were already making.

Ignoring; WaffenSS since 26,10,2013

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Then what +2000 T- series tanks been using ..

It is if you've got a warehouse full of unused barrels and an existing production line to make new ones, it would certainly be cheaper and easier.

The Vijayanta was what I was talking about. Although, wiki tells me they have 105mm guns, not the 120 mm gun that (wiki tells me) Arjun's use. But still, if you're already set up for, and have experience in making rifled barrels, I'd suspect that it would be cheaper and easier to go with what you know than take a risk on, and set up, a new manufacturing process

 

[Waffen SS]

they were a pre Challenger 1 1960's(???) .

What is pre Challenger 1? Centurion Tank? India had this one in service and it was India's counter weapon against Pakistani M 48 Patton.

Chieftain tank? Well this tank was powerful. But it had mechanical issues during Iraq-Iran war this tank broke down very often.

Iran Heritage

Check it about interview with an Iranian Commander Kuwait had Chieftain tanks they performed poorly against Iraqi T 72 so I believe India's decision to buy T 72 was good one.

Presume, a rifled gun and is was cheaper, and easier, to use the same(/similiar???) gun to one you were already making.

That's why perhaps we do now use Rifled gun in Arjun?

The Vijayanta was what I was talking about. Although, wiki tells me they have 105mm guns, not the 120 mm gun that (wiki tells me) Arjun's use.

What does it mean?

As a spin-off from the Arjun MBT project, India developed its own 105mm APFSDS rounds for the Vijayanta and T-55 tanks.

Bharat Rakshak :: Land Forces Site - Vijayanta

As for Damian he does not accept BR articles, :why: BR is really good.

And you assumed I dont know German language's name?

Perhaps @Damian and @militarysta can shed some light on Chieftain tank?

Vijayanta Tank.

 

[apple]

Then what +2000 T- series tanks been using ..

Good point. I don't really know much about this subject and will stop commenting on this thread. Although, did you make all the parts of your T72's i.e. including the guns, of did you assemble Russian made kits? i.e. do your T72 have Russian made main guns?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian modified T-72M1 & T-90S, Licensed Manufactured ..

Good point. I don't really know much about this subject and will stop commenting on this thread. Although, did you make all the parts of your T72's i.e. including the guns, of did you assemble Russian made kits? i.e. do your T72 have Russian made main guns?

 

[militarysta]

Chieftain tank? Well this tank was powerful. But it had mechanical issues during Iraq-Iran war this tank broke down very often.

Check it about interview with an Iranian Commander Kuwait had Chieftain tanks they performed poorly against Iraqi T 72 so I believe India's decision to buy T 72 was good one.(...)
Perhaps @Damian and @militarysta can shed some light on Chieftain tank?

Cheftian was the best armoured western tanks till Leo-2 and M1 become service. But Cheftian armour was joke in compare to T-64 and T-72
IMHO this time Andriej made good compare:

Fire power in Chaftian was good, it was preatty good, but main ammo was not enought vs the newest Soviet Tanks But whit those time curren british ammo was quite ok.
Mobility was not so good. Engine was overcomplicated IMHO.

BTW:

Chieftain tanks they performed poorly against Iraqi T 72

Iranian Cheftians vs Iraqi T-72 you meen I suppose.
iranian crews where poor trained, and skilled, they was no modern ammo for them. In fact Iraqi T-72 was dedly enemy for iranian tanks.

Indian T-72 was downgraded export version - as all export form Soviet Union there was circa 5 class of the tanks:

1. hight level (T-64B, T-80U) - exsclusive only for Soviet Union
2. low level (T-72B) - exsclusive only for Soviet Union
3. better export version - for some WarPac members (Czechoslovakia, DDR, etc) - avaible sooner and whit some slighty beetter features in FCS, NBS protection, etc
3. slighty lover export version - for Poland -avaible few yers later and slighty downgraded (but just slighty)
4. export for "friendly socialist countries" - Jugolslavia, Kuba, Witnam, etc "monkey model in upper level"
5. export for non comunist countriest - "monkey model" - Iraq, Lybia, Syria, India, etc

 

[Damian]

@militarysta, I would be carefull calling Chieftain the best armored NATO tank of 1960's. It appears that M60A1 was not worse, and perhaps even better.


BTW, this year AUSA was very interesting, GDLS presented improved version of Stryker APC with unmanned turret armed with 30mm automatic cannon, it seems that vehicle is also up armored.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeywellaero/10462769474/in/set-72157636911458574/lightbox/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

hmm..

 

[TrueSpirit]

India seems to be picking up the Persian/ Arab likeof Hitler, and lack of negativity (or open support) towards the Soviet Union. Apparently, in their minds, embracing the memory of both revolutionary Communism and the Third Reich isn't ambiguous.

Apple mate, do you even think before you write/post ?

How many Indians you know like or support Hitler or deny Holocaust, ever ? Or, even hinted at anything like that ? Your blatant stereotyping is too gross, misinformed & unacceptable to even comment on that....

 

[Damian]

hmm..

Yeah, GDLS is talking with US Army about replacing old engine and perhaps also transmition in M1 to the new MB883 diesel. They also talk about replacing torsion bars suspension system with hydrogas suspension system. We will see what will happen. I heard that US Army received first modified M1 hull for tests, or will receive it soon. It might be that these upgrades will also find their way in to ECP1 modernization, or ECP2 some time in future.

It is similiar to ECP1 and ECP2 modernization for M2 IFV, there also suspension was improved and transmission with engine replaced.

 

[Damian]

I have some new informations.

First is that next month we will most likely know (finally!) if Germany agree to sold nest batch of approx 120 Leopard 2A5 to Poland. Also next month more details about modernization of 128 Leopard 2A4 we currently have, as far as we know everything is now prepared to start modernization process.

And there is more, in Poznan, WZM plant is currently preparing production/assembly lines for new engine, as far as we know in competition only two companies are left, Iveco and MTU. Unofficialy MTU is a favorite because it offers full spectrum of engines we need, in power ranging from 100 do 1100 KW.

Decyzja w sprawie Leopardów już w listopadzie? - DziennikZbrojny.pl
Serce pojazdów wojskowych bić będzie z Poznania - DziennikZbrojny.pl
Centrum silników wojskowych powstanie w Poznaniu - DziennikZbrojny.pl

 

[Andrei_bt]

Indian T-72 was downgraded export version - as all export form Soviet Union there was circa 5 class of the tanks

What was downgraded on Indian or other export tanks?

 

[Neil]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-t-72-shell-up-close-personal.html#post807875

 

[militarysta]

What was downgraded on Indian or other export tanks?

1. Armour - it was always circa 15 yers behind avaible in Soviet Union solutions.
2. Amunition - again - very downgraded (3BM15 and 3BM22 when in Soviet union was avaible 3BM26 adn 3BM42)
3. Lack of the normal FCS, downgraded main sight, etc
4. Older and whorse stabilisatnion mehanism and gun model.

In fact export version for WarPac was circa 10-8 yers ago Soviet Tanks (in low cost verison - T-72). Exmaple from Poland: for my country was avaible T-72s (later known as.. Ob.188 T-90S) in circa 1989. Planned production vas avaible form circa 1992. Due to economy crash in end of the 1980s my country (Poland) woudn't bought those tanks (licence for prodyction in Bumar Łabędy factory) Those T-72s was basic the same as T-72B (Ob.184) -including FCS, gun, stabilisation mehanism, engine, etc. Of course Soviet Union colappse stopped any plans.
But in theory for WarPac Poland T-72s was avaible from circa ~1992 - 8 yers after T-72B...
Export tanks for India, Iraq, and others was circa 15 yers ago Soviet Union tanks

 

[militarysta]

From Syria:

Generally Syrian T-72AV whit ERA performed quite good in this war. Even against typical RPG-7.

 

[Damian]

Some informations:

Armia unowocześni Leopardy

Soon modernization of our 128 Leopard 2A4 will start, we know more or less what will be upgraded. The new Leopard 2PL will have modernized FCS, sights, electronics, communication, but also improved will be armor, and what is very interesting, it's main armament. We do not know if Leopard 2PL will keep Rh-120/L44 gun, or will receive newer L55. It is also possible that new APFSDS ammunition from Germany will be bought.

Silniki dla wojska zbudujÄ… w Poznaniu

Also, it seems we have official confirmation that WZM plant, will manufacture/assemble MTU engines for all kinds of vehicles currently in use and eventually fielded in future.

We also know right now, that approx 119/120 new Leopard 2's will be purchased from Germany and units that are considered to be equipped with them are 34th Armor Cavalry Brigade in Zagan, part of 11th Armor Cavalry Division, which part of is also 10th Armor Cavalry Brigade from Swietoszow that is currently using Leopard 2 tanks. The second unit that is considered is 1st Armor Brigade stationing in Wesola district in capital city of Warsaw, if this unit will be choosen, then perhaps I will have opprotunity to take a closer look to these new Leo2's.

 

[militarysta]

two BMP-2 hit by ATGM and RPG, and what? One part-burn but save, and one mobility kill but save to.
Again - even hit by ATGM aor PPK doesn't mean "destroyed"

 

[militarysta]

to be onest: