Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

For A 10 thunderbolt, USAF considers close ground support as annoyance. USAF more concentrates on strategic bombing and air superiority than close ground support. USAF is not willing to provide adequate ground support that's why Army and Marine corps have their own aviation wing consisting light attack helicopters.

And how do you know that USAF considers close air support as annoyance? It is more of your famous computer games wisdom?

As for US Army, again in your stupidity and ignorance, you wrongly classified AH-64 as light attack helicopter, when in reality it is heavy attack helicopter, while AH-1W and AH-1Z are medium class.

So USAF wants to get rid of A 10, but Army opposed it, they even said if USAF retires A 10 then army will have their own A 10.

More of a wisdom of a stupid kid?

US Army will not have A-10's simply because US Army does not operate fixed wing aircrafts, and preatty much they don't care about this issue.

But of course you do not comprehend even differences between ground forces, air forces and navy eh? Maybe US Army should also operate a nuclear submarines?

My statement contradicts with video games(Tanks explodes in game, in reality not) so it indicates I dont depend on games.

Oh really, they don't explode? Do you know what is ammunition deflagration process?

Yes, you are dumb kid, deal with it, and instead of playing computer games whole day, start to purchase some proffesional books and read them.

I use the term as anti tank cause it is short.

Which further indicates that you have a low IQ.

Do you mean Tanks dont have maintenance cost?

In 2007 cost AH-64A: $20M (2007)
AH-64D: $18M (2007)[

And M1 Cost US$6.21 million (M1A2 / FY99)[4] Estimated in 2012 as US$8.58 million (with inflation adjustment)

These are not maintnance costs you idiot! These are production costs.

You don't even understand what you read kid.

Can tanks act like this so quickly?

Even quicker.

Of course Helicopters are more vulnerable but I have a way add some chobham armour or Bullington armour, it may decrease maneuverability but the it will add more protection like WW2 il-2 "flying tank."

Haha... no seriously, you are a complete moron. I wonder how you would install a composite NERA type armor which needs high volume to be efficent on attack helicopter that needs to be very light.

M 72 is better tank killer than RPG 7.

Look at your beloved Wikipedia idiot.

M72 LAW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Search for penetration capabilities.

You are idiot indeed. And you can't improve M72 because it is a single shot disposable launcher with small calliber.

For T 72B it came in 1985, how can you compare this with 1960's RPG 7? Compare it with 1980's anti-tank missiles like MILAN.

And again, you are obviously not aware that RPG-7 can fire a different types of granades, because it is a multiple use launcher. You can for example fire from it PG-7VR granade which have the same capabilities as PG-29V granade fired from RPG-29.

Besides this, how I can compare RPG-7, which fires unguided rocket propelled granades with Milan being anti tank guided missile? Different class of weapon systems.

Oh and BTW:


Here is video from tests of Ukrainian "Duplet" explosive reactive armor. As we can see, it provides high levels of protection even against tandem HEAT warheads like PG-7VR and PG-29V and other types of threats.

Vehicles protection systems long time ago started to surpass anti tank ammunition.

 

[Waffen SS]

And how do you know that USAF considers close air support as annoyance? It is more of your famous computer games wisdom?

Is there really any need to maintain US Marine aviation? - Yahoo! Answers India

Best answer, this guy is from US Army, with real experience. Army men - Did you ever felt guilty for taking the lives of your opponent even though they are enemies ....? - Yahoo! Answers India

Check out first question's best answerer's answer in 2nd question.

I found in Yahoo Answers.

Even in the 1991 Gulf War, the most important air power theorist of recent decades argued that the USAF should avoid Iraqi fielded forces, instead concentrating on "strategic" targets that might bring down the regime without the need for breaking the Iraqi army.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ff4662469f95

Read this carefully.

More of a wisdom of a stupid kid?

US Army will not have A-10's simply because US Army does not operate fixed wing aircrafts, and preatty much they don't care about this issue.

But of course you do not comprehend even differences between ground forces, air forces and navy eh? Maybe US Army should also operate a nuclear submarines?

Exactly you know something show others you know everything.

Beechcraft C-12 Huron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The U.S. Army has expressed their dissatisfaction with the process of replacing the aircraft they call on for close-air support. The Army has shown interest in obtaining A-10 jets themselves if the Air Force retires them.[98][99]

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh really, they don't explode? Do you know what is ammunition deflagration process?

Yes, you are dumb kid, deal with it, and instead of playing computer games whole day, start to purchase some proffesional books and read them.

Of course I know, how ever can you you do that with a with a RPG hit which has small warhead?? Unless you dont hit that tank with another tank gun or bomb or missile it will not happen.

These are not maintnance costs you idiot! These are production costs.

I know just compare those with M1's heavy protection vs versatility of Apache.

Even quicker.

Show me.

Haha... no seriously, you are a complete moron. I wonder how you would install a composite NERA type armor which needs high volume to be efficent on attack helicopter that needs to be very light.

Adding more armour so that Helicopters can survive multiple hits. During Jaffna University Heli drop Indian air force Mi 8 were riddled with bullets, still they returned or heavily protected Mil Mi 24 Hind.

Look at your beloved Wikipedia idiot.

M72 LAW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Search for penetration capabilities.

You are idiot indeed. And you can't improve M72 because it is a single shot disposable launcher with small calliber.

M72 is one shot disposable just like AT 4. Penetration depends on projectile.

And again, you are obviously not aware that RPG-7 can fire a different types of granades, because it is a multiple use launcher. You can for example fire from it PG-7VR granade which have the same capabilities as PG-29V granade fired from RPG-29.

Besides this, how I can compare RPG-7, which fires unguided rocket propelled granades with Milan being anti tank guided missile? Different class of weapon systems.

You can compare as both RPG and MILAN are used against armour. I know RPG is of multipurpose ability, how ever it is better as anti-personnel than anti-armour mainly due to it's inaccuracy.

And thanks for the video.

Armour is not god and it is not impenetrable. Accept this.

 

[militarysta]

In 2007, in August from Wikileaks a M1 Abram was heavily damaged by RPG 29 fire, caused 3 WIA. In September 5, 2007 RPG 29 hit caused 1 KIA and 2 WIA.

ROTFL

I will quote in whole part this what part you have been used in post:

In August 5, 2007 an RPG-29V hit a passing M1 in the hull rear caused 3 WIA. In September 5, 2007 an RPG-29V hit the side turret of an M1 tank in Baghdad, caused 1 KIA and 2 WIA, the tank was seriously damaged.

Those are two diffrent causes then posted in those two videos.

Since this M1 Abrams was protectd by this:

what is enought - cose only precursor in RPG-29 is real problem for side armour.

 

[apple]

Damien and Militarysta,
What would a Javelin do to a Abrams, Leo II, Chally II ?

Oh, and ignore WaffenSS. Indians are never wrong, ever, about anything. It's quite annoying/ pointless trying to talk to an Indian who happens to be stupid.

 

[militarysta]

Damien and Militarysta,
What would a Javelin do to a Abrams, Leo II, Chally II ?
.

Both: Javelin and Spike are TOP-ATTACK but as diving not flying above. It's big adavantage.
ATGMs. Both wil hit in thinest place - tank roof. Both will kill corca 50% crew or destoryed tank (or both). Javelin have slighty bigger warhed whit better penetration value (circa 800mm RHA) but Spike is giuded and can be ai direct into crew hatch or in other weak spot.

 

[Damian]

Is there really any need to maintain US Marine aviation? - Yahoo! Answers India

Best answer, this guy is from US Army, with real experience. Army men - Did you ever felt guilty for taking the lives of your opponent even though they are enemies ....? - Yahoo! Answers India

Check out first question's best answerer's answer in 2nd question.

I found in Yahoo Answers.

Even in the 1991 Gulf War, the most important air power theorist of recent decades argued that the USAF should avoid Iraqi fielded forces, instead concentrating on "strategic" targets that might bring down the regime without the need for breaking the Iraqi army.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ff4662469f95

Read this carefully.

Search something better than Yahoo.

Ok I put this other way. Use books, because on bachelor or master studies, for using such sources as Yahoo, you would be not able to achieve any good grade.

Exactly you know something show others you know everything.

Beechcraft C-12 Huron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The U.S. Army has expressed their dissatisfaction with the process of replacing the aircraft they call on for close-air support. The Army has shown interest in obtaining A-10 jets themselves if the Air Force retires them.[98][99]

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aha, again Wikipedia, the funny thing is tough that US Army in their modernization plans, never mention any kind of interest in A-10.

You know why? Because opinion of some officers or theoretists is not equal to command decisions on equipment procurement.

Of course I know, how ever can you you do that with a with a RPG hit which has small warhead?? Unless you dont hit that tank with another tank gun or bomb or missile it will not happen.

Oh really?


You have absolutely no knowledge about post penetration process and what determines if ammunition inside a tank will explode or not, do you?

I know just compare those with M1's heavy protection vs versatility of Apache.

Funny thing, but US Army considers M1 as their most versatile asset, and tank overall as the most universal combat platform, as many other armed forces.

You want to say that you are smarter than US Army?

Show me.

I don't need to, and you will never understand because you are moron. People like you have problems with using logic.

But to say it simple. What will react faster? A tank that is constantly on the first line with troops? Or air support that is... somewhere there and need to be call for support?

I doubt your brain eaten by stupid computer games is capable to comprehend this difference.

M72 is one shot disposable just like AT 4. Penetration depends on projectile.

If M72 is one shot disposable launcher just like M136, it means it fires prepacked in factory projectile, which means that you use one single standard, which further means that this single standard depends on launcher calliber, and in case of shaped charges, the smaller calliber, the smaller capabilites in armor penetration.

M72 i 66mm and M136 is 84mm, both are small callibers with small penetration capabilities.

You can compare as both RPG and MILAN are used against armour. I know RPG is of multipurpose ability, how ever it is better as anti-personnel than anti-armour mainly due to it's inaccuracy.

No I can't compare weapon of different classes. And the rest is complete nonsense.

Armour is not god and it is not impenetrable. Accept this.

AFV's are cheaper, more versatile and more survivable solution than all these helicopters and aircrafts, and you are poorly educated moron with low IQ, accept this.

 

[Austin]

RAE 2013

Russia Arms EXPO 2013 - Vitaliy's Photos

 

[Apollyon]

Oh, and ignore WaffenSS. Indians are never wrong, ever, about anything. It's quite annoying/ pointless trying to talk to an Indian who happens to be stupid.

Please don't generalize your opinion .
well not so surprising seeing this is coming from someone who's most probably descendant of a convict

 

[Damian]

AFAIK Russians seems to consider possibility to offer or exports 2S25 "Sprut-SD" and perhaps also other BMD family of vehicles.

 

[militarysta]

@Dejawolf you have important PM -please repost.

 

[angeldude13]

Damien and Militarysta,
What would a Javelin do to a Abrams, Leo II, Chally II ?

Oh, and ignore WaffenSS. Indians are never wrong, ever, about anything. It's quite annoying/ pointless trying to talk to an Indian who happens to be stupid.

why don't you GTFO from this forum??
We don't need some god darned land thieves in this forum.

 

[Akim]

testing five BM Oplot for Royal Thai Army

 

[apple]

why don't you GTFO from this forum??
We don't need some god darned land thieves in this forum.

Aren't you the internet hardman? Got anything to add to the thread? Or are you just Ishant Sharma i.e. all mouth and no substance?

Please don't generalize your opinion .
well not so surprising seeing this is coming from someone who's most probably descendant of a convict

I'm sure you've come across WaffenSS style, lippy morons, on the internet before. It is a generalisation, and you're right to call me out for it.But it does strike me as a very Indian thing. I'm on a whole lot of message boards and the ones with Indian content/ users do seem to have a huge amount of users who will never admit they're wrong. This is only the internet, so that's sort of OK. But, a lot of the worst "I'm always correct" posters also have no idea what they are talking about. This forum is reasonable in that regard, ignoring a few users. But, there's another Indian defence site, which is a total waste of bandwidth.

And seriously, convict descent? I wish... My family hasn't been in Australia that long. Are you from Zaire ? You know that's not "Zaire's" name anymore, right? I do banter as well as the next guy. But, DR Congo... people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You're too easy, I wont be doing country based banter with you.

Both: Javelin and Spike are TOP-ATTACK but as diving not flying above. It's big adavantage.
ATGMs. Both wil hit in thinest place - tank roof. Both will kill corca 50% crew or destoryed tank (or both). Javelin have slighty bigger warhed whit better penetration value (circa 800mm RHA) but Spike is giuded and can be ai direct into crew hatch or in other weak spot.

What would be a "better" choice for the Indian Army? Javelin or Spike?

 

[Damian]

What would be a "better" choice for the Indian Army? Javelin or Spike?

It depends what you preffer, longer range and a bit more precission, then Spike, larger warhead, then Javelin.

The thing is however that US finally started further development of Javelin with new missile that have extended range, from approx 2000m to 4000m, so Javelin will probably replace TOW in nearest future both as infantry and vehicle mounted ATGM.

 

[TrueSpirit]

Damien and Militarysta,
What would a Javelin do to a Abrams, Leo II, Chally II ?

Oh, and ignore WaffenSS. Indians are never wrong, ever, about anything. It's quite annoying/ pointless trying to talk to an Indian who happens to be stupid.

And here is the biggest Indo-phobe @apple, hiding, lurking, & occasionally re-surfacing around DFI: the epitome of Sino-philia, perpetually in Sino-arse-licker mode. His inferiority complex is exemplary & irredeemable, as each of his post indicates.

 

[angeldude13]

Aren't you the internet hardman? Got anything to add to the thread? Or are you just Ishant Sharma i.e. all mouth and no substance?

It was you who generalized all Indians.
Yes i've nothing to say on this thread because i am still a novice and i only know basic things about tanks like armor,speed,suspension and firepower.
I am still learning so you won't find any comment.
I don't watch cricket
you generalizing all Indian on the bases of waffen ss quotes is like me calling all australian as white apes and filthy racists

 

[apple]

And here is the biggest Indo-phobe @apple, hiding, lurking, & occasionally re-surfacing around DFI: the epitome of Sino-philia, perpetually in Sino-arse-licker mode. His inferiority complex is exemplary & irredeemable, as each of his post indicates.

I love you too, sweety.

Your 0/3 on my character. I don't hate(/nor like particularly) either India (apart from Harbahjan Singh and the BCCI, which isn't very important), or China (except for their backing of Pol Pot, Mugabe and some current African/ Arab lunatics vs. their food and ladies are awesome) and you reckon I have an inferiority complex??? That's comedy gold, cause champ, there's never been, nor will there ever be anyone as awesome as me.

The claims of your post and too ridiculous to even be offensive, and I'd never get offended by a no one like you, particularly on the internet.

Keep on trucking, winner.

It was you who generalized all Indians.
Yes i've nothing to say on this thread because i am still a novice and i only know basic things about tanks like armor,speed,suspension and firepower.
I am still learning so you won't find any comment.
I don't watch cricket
you generalizing all Indian on the bases of waffen ss quotes is like me calling all australian as white apes and filthy racists

Sort of, except "white apes and filthy racists" is deeply offensive while I offered a personal explanation, and acknowledged, my stereotype which was about 2% as offensive (if it was offensive at all) as what you've just written about Australians.

You ought to get over your hate, it not that useful.

Don't think any watcher of cricket, outside the IPL, will ever be seeing Ishant Sharma again so I understand why you might not know who he is

 

[angeldude13]

Sort of, except "white apes and filthy racists" is deeply offensive while I offered a personal explanation, and acknowledged, my stereotype which was about 2% as offensive (if it was offensive at all) as what you've just written about Australians.

You ought to get over your hate, it not that useful.

Don't think any watcher of cricket, outside the IPL, will ever be seeing Ishant Sharma again so I understand why you might not know who he is

As i said i don't watch cricket.
It's a boring game and lots of match are fixed.
IMO cricket game is sh8t and IPL is nothing but a cheap rip off of EPL and other football leagues

 

[Damian]

Ekhm, I know that this is damn interesting discussion, but please, let's stay on topic.

Meanwhile at AUSA 2013, GDLS presented modernized, diesel powered M1A2SEP tank hull.

 

[Damian]

Looks like Challenger 1 with special armor inserts removed.