Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

Railgun needs huge amount of power and the current GT or Diesel engine cannot sustain those kind of power , They can perhaps fit such gun on Naval Ships that dont have limitation of size and power to it.

For now, however new solutions in power storage and use can bring us new solutions. Question when, not if.

I dont know much about O 195 as most features have been classified till date.

IMHO it depends on ammunition storage arrangement in the loading mechanism. It is not immposible to fit the same ammount or even higher ammount of ammunition of bigger calliber in vehicle with reasonable size and weight.

Also we shoyld remember that progress in materials will probably provide us with penetrator materials which will permitt to stay withing resonable lenght for ammunition.

BTW, promising as composite armor component.

 

[methos]

In case of the NATO 140 mm rounds, the size was mainly increased to reach a higher muzzle velocity and not to allow using longer rods.
The NATO 140 mm gun doesn't really allow the use of longer projectiles; the size of the upper part of a 140 mm round and that of an unitary 120 mm round is nearly equal, this means that the APFSDS length only increases a little due to the lack of a primer in the upper part of the 140 mm round.
The upper part of the the 140 mm round is about 5% longer than a complete 120 mm DM43 round.

 

[Damian]

Well, I think it is possible to place there M829A3 penetrator and have even better penetration capabilities.

 

[methos]

Well, I think it is possible to place there M829A3 penetrator and have even better penetration capabilities.

Sure, because the M829A3's penetrator would exit the 140 mm's muzzle at a much higher velocity. But the 140 mm gun is not really designed to allow longer penetrators.

 

[Austin]

It appears Boomerang , Kurgnets-25 and Armata samples will be shown in September at Tagil

Tula armourers represent a single fighting unit for armored vehicles

"Combat units must be manufactured, assembled, configured and put fire in the dash in the middle of summer," - said the chief designer of the direction of the PCU Leo Shvets.

"Having a single unit will greatly facilitate its production, operation and training of the crew - this is a common view and the customer, and the prime contractor. This module installed a brand new fire control system ensuring automatic combat work with different kind of weapons. Complex weapons in combat potential exceeds all Foreign Aids, including Puma (Germany) and Bradley (USA). And in Russia, of course, our system will be the best "- leads the company words of the designer.

According to the CBI, the presentation of new armament armored vehicles in September at the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil.

 

[average american]

Its kind of hard to believe until recently 2010 that Russian Tanks even the T90 did not have thermal sights due to lack of Russian Technology, they do now but Russia had to buy the rights to build thermal sights from the French. Russia to start licensed production of foreign military equipment | Defense | RIA Novosti

And in Russia, of course, our system will be the best "- leads the company words of the designer.

 

[Damian]

Its kind of hard to believe until recently 2010 that Russian Tanks even the T90 did not have thermal sights due to lack of Russian Technology, they do now but Russia had to buy the rights to build thermal sights from the French. Russia to start licensed production of foreign military equipment | Defense | RIA Novosti

And in Russia, of course, our system will be the best "- leads the company words of the designer.

T-90 and some variants of T-80U and T-80UD had thermal sights, article says that they are starting licence production of new thermal sight Catherine-FC.

Seriously, learn to read with understanding, there is plenty of photos of T-xx tanks made in Russia and Ukraine from 90's with thermal sights, Most sights made in Russia had not very good image quality, this is why Russians decided to purchase French thermal sights,

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

even the cathreine thermal sights from thales put on t90s faced problems during operation parakram in 2001-2002.

 

[Damian]

Which is strange. NATO tanks and their components are tested both in rough arctic and desert conditions (mostly in USA and Canada). However as far as I remember, French made products had some problems in difficult conditions, like Leclerc during trails in deserts of middle east,

 

[Austin]

The T-90MS uses French Catherine-XP and Catherine-FC ( like Indian T-90 Bishma ) for Commander and Gunner.

But Russia will hence forth wont use French TI sights becuase they built a one that is as good at the French one , there was an artilce on gurkhan sight on the new sight .

The French are really good when it comes to TI and IIR sensors and are world leaders in this field.

 

[Austin]

even the cathreine thermal sights from thales put on t90s faced problems during operation parakram in 2001-2002.

Those were initial teething problems with TI sights due to lack of adequate cooling and T-90 lacked an AC as a result the failure rate on TI sights in extreme heat of Rajasthan was very high.

Since then a lot of effort has gone to solve the problem and now T-90 has no issues with Catherine TI sights , Part of the upgrade for T-90 Bishma is addition of AC which is basicly there for crew comfort but then I think it will also help the electronics , All modern electronics these days needs cooling even if its military ruggedish types.

 

[average american]

Can you back that up that the Russians wont be using the French sight which they bought the license to produce in 2010.
M1A1/2 Abrams Main Battle Tank, United States of America « Robert's Fool

Does any one then me see any inconsistancy in the fact that Russia is suppose to build effect IRST for the T 50 and PAK FA but has difficulty building a thermal sight for tanks.

 

[Damian]

Austin, but for example US and UK tanks even without AC cooling units, never had problems with their electronics and thermal sights in very high temperatures of Saudi Arabian, Kuwaiti and Iraqi deserts. IMHO the main problem could have been with thermal sight itself,

Does any one then me see any inconsistancy in the fact that Russia is suppose to build effect IRST for the T 50 and PAK FA but has difficulty building a thermal sight for tanks.

T-50 and PAK-FA are on and the same thing,,,

Also designing and building aircraft is sometimes simpler than designing and building tank withing the requirements both tactical, technical and quality ones,

 

[Austin]

Austin, but for example US and UK tanks even without AC cooling units, never had problems with their electronics and thermal sights in very high temperatures of Saudi Arabian, Kuwaiti and Iraqi deserts. IMHO the main problem could have been with thermal sight itself,

Even Arjun did not face such problem because TI working in extereme heat has been catered for in design stage but T-90 had to address this issue as in extereme heat the Catherne FC faced high failure rate so they had to rework and cater to TI cooling adequately to solve this issue

Temperature inside T-90 tank in extereme heat of Thar can go to more than 60 degrees and sensitive electronics like TI needs to be adeqately catered for cooling issues .....T-90 also has lower internal volume compared to Western tanks so unless they did not cater to it in design stage then it would be a problem as space is always a premium in tanks.

T-50 and PAK-FA are on and the same thing,,,

Also designing and building aircraft is sometimes simpler than designing and building tank withing the requirements both tactical, technical and quality ones,

Aircraft are a far complicated subject unless you are talking of bi planes but designing a tank and aircraft have their own challenges and needs experts and industry to solve those problems.

 

[Austin]

Can you back that up that the Russians wont be using the French sight which they bought the license to produce in 2010.
M1A1/2 Abrams Main Battle Tank, United States of America � Robert's Fool

Its there on gurkhan blog including the pictures of Russian made TI but going thought his blog and finding using translator is not for the faint hearted , if you can do so then you will find it or may be try asking on mp.net some one will post it.

 

[average american]

Even Arjun did not face such problem because TI working in extereme heat has been catered for in design stage but T-90 had to address this issue as in extereme heat the Catherne FC faced high failure rate so they had to rework and cater to TI cooling adequately to solve this issue

Temperature inside T-90 tank in extereme heat of Thar can go to more than 60 degrees and sensitive electronics like TI needs to be adeqately catered for cooling issues .....T-90 also has lower internal volume compared to Western tanks so unless they did not cater to it in design stage then it would be a problem as space is always a premium in tanks.



Aircraft are a far complicated subject unless you are talking of bi planes but designing a tank and aircraft have their own challenges and needs experts and industry to solve those problems.

Another big differance is when a tanks fails its on the ground when an aircraft fails the chances are is its in the air, big big differance.

 

[Damian]

Even Arjun did not face such problem because TI working in extereme heat has been catered for in design stage but T-90 had to address this issue as in extereme heat the Catherne FC faced high failure rate so they had to rework and cater to TI cooling adequately to solve this issue

Temperature inside T-90 tank in extereme heat of Thar can go to more than 60 degrees and sensitive electronics like TI needs to be adeqately catered for cooling issues .....T-90 also has lower internal volume compared to Western tanks so unless they did not cater to it in design stage then it would be a problem as space is always a premium in tanks.

IMHO it is problem with French electronics, I know that Leclerc also have problems with it's electronics in desert trails, despite being a bigger vehicle that in theory should have better air circulation inside.

 

[darklabor]

IMHO it is problem with French electronics, I know that Leclerc also have problems with it's electronics in desert trails, despite being a bigger vehicle that in theory should have better air circulation inside.

Are you refering to the first S2?
If so, I manage to gather some informations about that.

Till the first S2 tanks, the Leclerc had a temperature threshold too low for it's turret motorisation. So every time the turret was stabilised for too long in the desert, the tank itself reduced the rotation speed to cool down. With some testings in Qatar, they changed the threshold and everything is fine.
Regarding the electrical components in the turret, the main problem in desert conditions was the old cooling device wich was obsolete. It consisted in a regular cooling fan for computer. That device ensure the extraction of the hot air within the bottom of the turret where all electronical box are. Now the regular fan is replaced by a much power system wich is much more noisy within the turret. You can hear it on some videos.
The very big problem of the Leclerc is more the lack of maintenance. But that's another story... (

 

[militarysta]

Leclerck have weak PR and it's only real disadvantage of this greate tank. And Vartisla fuel compsumption - like in AGT-1500, but apar that Leclerc is very, very good tank...

 

[Damian]

I heard that there were problems with Leclerc, even with software. There were some serious accidents.