Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[militarysta]

Interesting, it seems that American ERA is not pure ERA, but some sort of hybrid armor, that contains ERA + unspecified passive protection.


I think I got the answer, it seems that direcly behind cassette, there is something that looks like relaively thick armor plate, this is probably why cassettes after detonation does not completely disintegrates.

But here it does not look like a thick plate, hmmm, interesting design, perhaps there is a bulge for this passive element behind reactive elements.

Cermaics Damian.
Red - ERA tiles inside casette
Blue - ceramics layers
IMHO there is no many other options case to weight resons.
And take a notice how the soilder is carring ERA casette*. It can't weight more then ~20kg propably a lot less( IMHO max 10kg) (any data Damian?) RHA or HHS plate 40mm-thick weight to mucht, so propably there is something diffrent after part whit ERA tiles. Propably it's ceramic plate - quite effective against SC, and weight a lot less then RHA


*the way of carrying casette shownt that soilder use only right arm to hold whole casette. Left hand is only stabilizing and don't take ERA casette weight (supports the hand and wrist is not). So how many weight can this casette? Max 20kg, propably half of that.

 

[JBH22]

Defence Line Army's Battle With Arjun 23 June 2012 Part 1&2

 

[JBH22]

Please check out the videos specially Arjun lovers the "specialist" demolish the acquisition of Arjun on accounts of logistics which is fair imho.

One point a brigadier makes out how many derivatives Arjun has 0?
I agree only if sufficient numbers are to acquired then only the derivatives can be acquired but then too late can't afford two tank army

 

[Damian]

Cermaics Damian.
Red - ERA tiles inside casette
Blue - ceramics layers
IMHO there is no many other options case to weight resons.
And take a notice how the soilder is carring ERA casette*. It can't weight more then ~20kg propably a lot less( IMHO max 10kg) (any data Damian?) RHA or HHS plate 40mm-thick weight to mucht, so propably there is something diffrent after part whit ERA tiles. Propably it's ceramic plate - quite effective against SC, and weight a lot less then RHA


*the way of carrying casette shownt that soilder use only right arm to hold whole casette. Left hand is only stabilizing and don't take ERA casette weight (supports the hand and wrist is not). So how many weight can this casette? Max 20kg, propably half of that.

Well, in case of M19 ARAT-1 in path of shaped charge jet there are allways in most cases at least two ERA elements + that passive element, should be very efficent protection.

 

[volna]

Hello! Akim,
I'm very interested about these illustrations,could you please translate it?
Thanks!

 

[Akim]

I'm very interested about these illustrations,could you please translate it?

Possible concepts armor-modules frontal design of the tank:a) M1A1 b) M1A2 c) M1P1P
1. armor steel 2. elastic layer 3.ceramet 4, reinforced plastic 5 integrated RA 6, fusion steel and uranium.

 

[volna]

Possible concepts armor-modules frontal design of the tank:a) M1A1 b) M1A2 c) M1P1P
1. armor steel 2. elastic layer 3.ceramet 4, reinforced plastic 5 integrated RA 6, fusion steel and uranium.

Very interesting,thanks a lot!

 

[Damian]

Still remember that this are only concepts from the 80's.... one thing is interesting though, that integral ERA (Встроенная Динамическая Защита as written on the document scan), we know that British designers were experimenting with at least one single Burlington armor variant with integral ERA.... hmmmm



Here is one of Burlington variants during ballistic tests.

 

[STGN]

Look at picture of the blown ERA again that is not a armour plate, its a cut out so you can mount the ERA on the mounting rails.

In the lower left you can actually see the unexploded ERA title with the corner cut out, but other wise reaching the rear wall.
STGN

 

[Damian]

Look at picture of the blown ERA again that is not a armour plate, its a cut out so you can mount the ERA on the mounting rails.

In the lower left you can actually see the unexploded ERA title with the corner cut out, but other wise reaching the rear wall.
STGN

Yeah, still manufacturers says about some unspecified passive element, this makes me wonder what is this passive element, obviously not the cassette as it's walls are too thin.

 

[Austin]

What do you mean about approximate figures?

dimensions?
performance?
or what?

should have been more clear here

Length of the Penetrator
Length and Weight of Entire Round
DU or Tungsten with designation of the round
The muzzle velocity these rounds are fired at.

Any link which is reliable read is also fine , Thanks

 

[militarysta]

should have been more clear here

Length of the Penetrator
Length and Weight of Entire Round
DU or Tungsten with designation of the round
The muzzle velocity these rounds are fired at.

Any link which is reliable read is also fine , Thanks

Data given by my You have here in this topic on previous pages ;-)
If You are looking any links then here you have quite good, but there are IMHO some mistakes:
Das Panzerdetail - US-Munition für die 120 mm Kanone von Rheinmetall
Das Panzerdetail - Munition der 120 mm Kanone von Rheinmetall
Танковые боеприпасы США

 

[militarysta]

................................

 

[militarysta]

BTW -Austin - here You have my own mesurment:

(clon M332)

for DM53 mesurment are based on other (and definetly better then photos ) sources - unfortunatly unavaible to post.


btw: when we compare modern APFSDS we can see what kind of monster is M829A3...

 

[militarysta]

BTW for Svinets-1 diamension are
total projectile lenght: ~750mm
total penetrator lenght: ~710mm
rod lenght: ~625mm (maybe 630mm)

 

[Austin]

Thanks @militarysta for posting those

M829A3 figures are certainly impressive although I am sure those figures might varry when it comes to dealing with Composite Armour or Heavy ERA+Composite armour. L ratio is certainly not the last word when it comes to effective penetration values against range of composite or ERA/Composite armour a better engineered Sabot or advancement in materials or combination of both might give you better values all things being equal , I am sure German or Russian or some one else might be thinking along those lines because in the end you cant keep increasing the length of the round ,

As far as Svinets-1 goes i have heard of different value so not sure what to make out unless they disclose the picture and some of its capabilities we can better judge it , there is also Svinets-2 i believe perhaps a non-DU stuff

 

[Damian]

M829A3 figures are certainly impressive although I am sure those figures might varry when it comes to dealing with Composite Armour or Heavy ERA+Composite armour. L ratio is certainly not the last word when it comes to effective penetration values against range of composite or ERA/Composite armour a better engineered Sabot or advancement in materials or combination of both might give you better values all things being equal , I am sure German or Russian or some one else might be thinking along those lines because in the end you cant keep increasing the length of the round ,

1. Of course L/D ratio is not the only important thing when it comes to ammunition capabilities, important is overall design, materials, their quality etc.
2. Of course there are some limits in ammunition lenght, although NATO did significant increase of ammunition lenght for their 140mm guns, see below.

Lenght of these US and UK APFSDS ammunition is more than 1,000mm, it is two piece ammunition, it was reported that Swiss counterpart was capable to penetrate more than 1,000mm RHA.

 

[Austin]

The problem with bigger rounds be it single or two rounds is that you end up with bigger /heavier tanks for the same/more number of ammo to be carried or can carry less number of ammo ... I doubt we would see any jump from 120 mm MG for tanks any time soon.....although I suspect newer design like Armata might have provision to uprate their guns if required although I dont think that would happen soon. Probably we might see more development on Gun Launched Missile front

 

[Damian]

There were some developments, like ECT guns. However AFAIK that American prototype named "Thumper" had approx 30-40 rounds capacity, just like in case of of 120mm guns. Object 195 also had a space for approx 30-40 rounds of 152mm calliber. It is not that big problem. Railguns are not an option for the nearest future untill their powersources will be small enough and efficent enough.

 

[Austin]

Railgun needs huge amount of power and the current GT or Diesel engine cannot sustain those kind of power , They can perhaps fit such gun on Naval Ships that dont have limitation of size and power to it. I dont know much about O 195 as most features have been classified till date.