Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[militarysta]

And another question, can somebody translate from that artcle:
Gur Khan attacks!: Продолжая критику «Ð‘улата»…
value form table: "Удельная мощность МТО"??
Akim? Lidsky?

 

[Akim]

value form table: "Удельная мощность МТО"??

This attitude. So how much h.p. accounts for 1kub. meter of engine.
P.S. Him all numbers written "from a fool".

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Japanese Type-90 turret side armor or tool box?

 

[Damian]

Japanese Type-90 turret side armor or tool box?

Side armor seems to be approx ~150-200mm in thickness near the front armor joining welds, and then decrease to approx ~50mm in the rear.

Looking at weld lines I suspect that sort of composite protection is in the sides over crew compartment but turret bustle is protected by simple homogeneous or very simple spaced array. So nothing special, but this is typical design solution for that region, probably to reduce weight.



However without interior photos, especially from factory, it will be difficult to say where armor really ends inside, where are backplates.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Type-90 is a smart design, Japanese noticed about the sight issue at front.

 

[Damian]

Type 90 have some good design solutions. It's strongest point are electronics, for it's times had very advanced FCS. Although terrain on Japanese islands force designers to sacrifice some protection so tanks can be used there.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Side armor seems to be approx ~150-200mm in thickness near the front armor joining welds, and then decrease to approx ~50mm in the rear.

Looking at weld lines I suspect that sort of composite protection is in the sides over crew compartment but turret bustle is protected by simple homogeneous or very simple spaced array. So nothing special, but this is typical design solution for that region, probably to reduce weight.


However without interior photos, especially from factory, it will be difficult to say where armor really ends inside, where are backplates.

Looks like a tool box, look at the handles on the side. Thats not an armour.

and what software are you useing for the blue and red highlight?

 

[Damian]

@Godless-Kafir

Where do you see handles? :shocked:

Ok but explain me, how do you want to open a "tool box" when there is not even a single hinge for the door to open?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Japanese_Type_90_Tank_-_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Japanese_Type_90_Tank_-_1.jpg

These small things on the sides these are not handles.

Look at these high res photos, you can see these small things on whole tank. Hmmm yeah I know what their purpose is, they are used to attache camouflage.

I use gimp, easy to use.

 

[militarysta]

Hey guys I made few mistake about AGT-1500 power

First - there is difrence between european HP (HP) ans bitish horse power (HP)
1HP = 0,9863 HP (bristish)

It's fist mistake. Second is mucht heavier.

In short explain about HP in tank. We have:
"shaft power" from which we subtract:
- loss at the air inlet
- loss on the exhaust / muffler
= and we have "net power" from which we subtract:
- loss in transmission
- power absorbed by the auxiliaries (ex cooling system)
= "power on drive sprockets"

In our "old" AGT-1500 it is (in european HP unit -like for 6TD-1, MB873 etc):

net power: 1105HP
- 257HP (loss in transmission)
-153HP power absorbed by the auxiliaries but it's maximal value. It's range between 0HP to 153HP
So finnaly "power on drive sprockets" for AGT-1500 in M1 Abrams is between 695-848HP

all is based on this greate pdf: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a234998.pdf

Seens to be small value? Not so fast in judge please.
power on drive sprockets for other engines looks that:
6ТД-1: 580HP
MB873 : 884HP
and as I said:
AGT1500 : 695-848KM

BTW: power absorbed by the auxiliaries in gas turbines is generally lower then in diesel engines.

 

[Damian]

Do you have for modernized AGT-1500?

Still it is comparable with MB873, both are preaty much comparable engines.

 

[militarysta]

Do you have for modernized AGT-1500?

Yes for improved AGT1500 and X1100-3B it is:
1358 hp net power - 261 hp (loss in transmission) - max 156 HP power absorbed by the auxiliaries but it's maximal values = 968HP but in british unit, in European HP it is: 968 x 0.9863 = 954HP

 

[Damian]

Not bad. Hmmm however I consider something else also. You know that AGT-1500 have a software that governs it's power, I heard that when software is disabled or driver turns on SHAFTS system, the power increase significantly, of course the trade off is that transmission might have shorter service life time.

So perhaps in case of AGT-1500 the power transferred on drive sprockets is more fluid issue if you know what I mean.

Question, do MB873 have also software that governs it's power transferred on to transmission and drive sprockets?

 

[militarysta]

So perhaps in case of AGT-1500 the power transferred on drive sprockets is more fluid issue if you know what I mean.

Im not so sure. All transmision have max power avaible to transmite. This part is unkown for me.

Question, do MB873 have also software that governs it's power transferred on to transmission and drive sprockets?

Yes, all MB873 is dovngraded form 1800HP to only 1500HP due to service life time. But the problem is diffrent - maximum input power for Renk transmision (in it's "typical Leo-2 version" is 1100kW. so ~1500 european HP. So using smth like "SHAFTS system" in typical leopard-2 is pointless.
In newest leo-2: Strv.122, Leo-2A6HEL, E, 2A7, Renk transmission have slighty better "maximum input power" value -so iti's consider whit 1800HP in Strv.122

 

[Damian]

Hmmm, pity that we do not have access to the full documentation for these powerpacks. I doubt that DTIC have this, but perhaps?

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a440545.pdf

BTW @militarysta, check this link, a very interesting system developed for M1A2.

 

[volna]

Yes, all MB873 is dovngraded form 1800HP to only 1500HP due to service life time.

So,how is the service life of MB-873 when it reted at 1800HP?

 

[militarysta]

So,how is the service life of MB-873 when it reted at 1800HP?

Well in fact I haven't idea, becouse I haven't data for other then MB873 "normal" engine. The other problem is that Germans give engine lifetime in kg used fuel, not in hours, so it's more complicated to recount it, becouse kg used fuel are more "fluent" then motor hours.

BTW - I find another Andriej Tarasenko vel Herkonnen, vel andriej_bt ordinary lies -this time about angines and HP in engines.
Сравнение «Леопард-2А4» и Т-64Б (БМ «Булат») in table "Ориентировочные значения потерь мощности в системах шасси."
I offer a quiz - how many lies is consider in this table?

 

[Akim]

@militarysta
What do you mean?

 

[militarysta]

@militarysta
What do you mean?

Well, I'm prepering smthing special to explaint that

But what I can say now - ukrainian tank industry have many serious brilliant technology or products, but trying to promote them by using lies and fake arguments and to blame other construction is bad way and...uneffective.

In my opinnion there is no single man called "Tarasenko" Andriej_BT" "Harkonnen" etc. Thea are few peapols coneccted whit SBU and tank industry. This whole blog and articles posted on btvt are just bad marketing. The same this stupid "holly war" betwen UVZ and CHarkiv.

Lest later.

 

[militarysta]

Later I will prepare compare AGT-1500, MB873 and 6TD-1.

In fact power on drive sprockets for them looks like that:
6ТД-1: 580HP
MB873 : 884HP
AGT1500 : 695-848HP

 

[Akim]

@militarysta
Understand that all of these stories that they write to the "tank" sites designed for you and me are the many others who either had never her serve in the army, or served in the rank positions. II'm 8 years is not associated service. I had to leave because of a spinal injury. Do you think I much remember by heart? Although for me almost 12 years of qualifying. . And ask that, who served two years of a soldier. He and the correct order of disassembly of the AK-74 will not name correctly . But if will take him in hands, then "mechanical memory" will tell you. So with the tanks only too. Those who arranges a tender is not read only by mathematical characteristics. They study the tank from all its "sides".