Lockheed says US may take "fresh look" at its India F-16 plan

lcafanboy

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Lockheed says US may take "fresh look" at its India F-16 plan

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Trump has criticised US companies that have moved manufacturing overseas and which then sell their products back to the US.

US defence firm Lockheed Martin wants to push ahead with plans to move production of its F-16 combat jets to India, but understands President Donald Trump's administration may want to take a "fresh look" at the proposal.

With no more orders for the F-16 from the Pentagon, Lockheed plans to use its Fort Worth, Texas plant instead to produce the fifth generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter that the United States Air Force is transitioning to.

Lockheed would switch F-16 production to India, as long as the Indian government agrees to order hundreds of the planes that its air force desperately needs.

Trump has criticised US companies that have moved manufacturing overseas and which then sell their products back to the US. In his first few weeks in office, he has pushed companies, from automakers to pharmaceutical firms, to produce more in the United States.

In Lockheed's case, however, the plan is to build the F-16 to equip the Indian Air Force, and not sell them back into the United States.

Lockheed said it has been talking to Trump's transition and governance teams as well as the U.S. Congress for several months on its plans, including the proposed sale of F-16 planes to India, a spokesman told Reuters in Washington.

"We've briefed the Administration on the current proposal, which was supported by the Obama Administration as part of a broader cooperative dialogue with the Government of India," the spokesman said.

"We understand that the Trump Administration will want to take a fresh look at some of these programs, and we stand prepared to support that effort to ensure that any deal of this importance is properly aligned with US policy priorities."

ndia is expected to spend $250 billion on defence modernisation over the next decade, analysts say, and there is concern that a veto on making the F-16 in India would not only hit Lockheed, but also threaten other military contracts to come up in India for Boeing, Northrop and Raytheon.

The White House did not respond to requests for comment on the plan to build the plane in India.

No threat to US jobs
Lockheed has said that moving F-16 assembly to India would create 200 engineering jobs in the United States to help support the production line in India.

It has also said that about 800 workers in the United States making the non-Lockheed parts for the F-16 would keep their jobs if construction shifts to India.

"We are offering to make the F-16 Block-70 aircraft with a local partner in India. This is an offer exclusive to India," Randall L. Howard, head of F-16 business development, told Reuters ahead of India's biggest air show beginning in Bengaluru next week.

In India, the F-16 is up against SAAB's Gripen combat aircraft, which the Swedish firm has also offered to make locally, as Prime Minister Narendra Modi drives a Make-in-India campaign to build a domestic aerospace industry and reduce costly imports.

The Indian government is expected to decide this year on which company will build a single-engine fighter plane, in collaboration with a local partner. A defence official said the process was at a very early stage.

The Indian air force alone needs 200-250 fighters over the next 10 years, its former chief Arup Raha said before he left office in December.


Defence ties between India and the United States have grown rapidly, with U.S. arms sales of more than $4 billion in 2012-15, mostly under government-to-government foreign military sales, upstaging long-term supplier Russia and even Israel.

Lockheed's executive director for international business development, Abhay Paranjape, said his team has met with representatives from 40 defence and aviation firms in India to help build the ancillary network for the aircraft assembly programme.

"We want to be prepared, that's why we started the ground work," he said, adding Lockheed has also scouted possible factory sites in India. Lockheed has a joint venture with India's Tata Advanced Systems Ltd to make airframe components for the C-130J Super Hercules transport plane and the S-92 helicopter.

"The capability for building components exists here, it's been proven with the C-130s. The challenge now is to pick the right partners," Paranjape said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-its-india-f-16-plan/articleshow/57060607.cms

Looks like Lockheed has got the message no order for f-16 is coming from India. A perfect case of SOUR GRAPES.
 

Srinivas_K

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It is a good proposal.

The idea behind it is to drain Chinese economy.

Once f16 manufacturing moves to India, Pakistan needs to replace its major part of fleet with Chinese fighters. Because of spare part availability and other factors. There by making things difficult for china and Pakistan.

India should take this offer.

China can proliferate ICBMs to Pakistan but I am afraid they need to spend half of their defence budget in Himalayas and in Pakistan. That too 1000's miles from their main land and on a difficult terrain.
 

SilentKiller

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It is a good proposal.

The idea behind it is to drain Chinese economy.

Once f16 manufacturing moves to India, Pakistan needs to replace its major part of fleet with Chinese fighters. Because of spare part availability and other factors. There by making things difficult for china and Pakistan.

India should take this offer.

China can proliferate ICBMs to Pakistan but I am afraid they need to spend half of their defence budget in Himalayas and in Pakistan. That too 1000's miles from their main land and on a difficult terrain.
How its a good offer?
india should not go with F-16 or Grippen..
we now have 3 production lines for LCA (latest one got government nod)..

Pakistan can get its spare parts from turkey and FYI, pakistan is replacing its fleet with chinese planes, china always had large share in pak fleet. over 200 junk JF17 are planned. 70+ inducted.
Do u know the difference b/w indian and chinese economy? they spend close to $150 billion on defence and we only $50 billion, porkis have $15 billion spent on defence. So chinese giving thier old planes or junk planes and spend 5-10 billion $ to pakistan will hurt india.

Also, Porkis were left behind in SLBM and Anti- Ballistic missiles teck, so chinese came in, gave them or launch a missile from their own sub and porkis showed it as their own. Chinese economy will never drain by these tactic, reason is china is export powerhouse, as long as we keep on buying or USA keep on buying from them, china will keep on growing. china growing at 2-3% annually will keep it ahead us even if we grow at 8%.
 

Srinivas_K

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JF17 cannot replace F16's, it is the J10 which comes close.

Secondly LCA will be inducted into IAF in numbers as committed by IAF. Having a F16 manufacturing line will create jobs, transfer technologies, makes India a hub of aircraft maintenance.

Plus an edge on Pakistani airforce. Chinese are busy in ramping up their musle in scs and in their east, now they have to do the same in their south also. It is like stretching their defence spending and resources. Out of 200 billion and pakistans 15 billion, one needs at least 100 billion in Himalayan mountains and IOR to keep the edge. You are forgetting Indian navy.

Chinese are involving in India related matters and trying to chew more than what they can digest. Chinese dragon will be rattled and put in place.

India is just starting to ramp up the defence buildup.

How its a good offer?
india should not go with F-16 or Grippen..
we now have 3 production lines for LCA (latest one got government nod)..

Pakistan can get its spare parts from turkey and FYI, pakistan is replacing its fleet with chinese planes, china always had large share in pak fleet. over 200 junk JF17 are planned. 70+ inducted.
Do u know the difference b/w indian and chinese economy? they spend close to $150 billion on defence and we only $50 billion, porkis have $15 billion spent on defence. So chinese giving thier old planes or junk planes and spend 5-10 billion $ to pakistan will hurt india.

Also, Porkis were left behind in SLBM and Anti- Ballistic missiles teck, so chinese came in, gave them or launch a missile from their own sub and porkis showed it as their own. Chinese economy will never drain by these tactic, reason is china is export powerhouse, as long as we keep on buying or USA keep on buying from them, china will keep on growing. china growing at 2-3% annually will keep it ahead us even if we grow at 8%.
 

SilentKiller

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JF17 cannot replace F16's, it is the J10 which comes close.

Secondly LCA will be inducted into IAF in numbers as committed by IAF. Having a F16 manufacturing line will create jobs, transfer technologies, makes India a hub of aircraft maintenance.

Plus an edge on Pakistani airforce. Chinese are busy in ramping up their musle in scs and in their east, now they have to do the same in their south also. It is like stretching their defence spending and resources. Out of 200 billion and pakistans 15 billion, one needs at least 100 billion in Himalayan mountains and IOR to keep the edge. You are forgetting Indian navy.

Chinese are involving in India related matters and trying to chew more than what they can digest. Chinese dragon will be rattled and put in place.

India is just starting to ramp up the defence buildup.
Tranfer technology, what technology, old 80's tech?
why should india invest in a plane which USA will no longer keep..why should we take a old generation plane?
most countries that are flying F-16 are planning to retire them, few like italy, Israel have started getting F35. Some are moving to eurofighter, some moved or moving to rafale, others to grippen. so in next 5-10 years, F-16 will be mostly gone only turkey or porkis or some west asian countries will have them. Even if we select F16, its production from india will only start in next 3-4 years. Turkey already have manufacturing hub for F16. Porkis F-16 are getting upgraded by turkey.

invest in LCA MK1A, MK2 will we enough to create jobs in india.

also, if navy too wants 57 planes, why can't we have same platform for both navy and airforce.
for this best option are F-18, Rafale and F35.
out of these 3 india should go for rafale as IAF has placed orders for 36, 57 can go to navy, IAF can order 36 more and these numbers are enough to bring production to india. so this too can bring jobs, get technologies etc.
 

Flame Thrower

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@Srinivas_K

And we'll end up with 4++ gen fighters while China gets 5th gen fighters...

More over no tech transfer from US... No Aesa tech, no engine tech, but 100's f-16s.... Moreover our defense budget is not huge enough to spend more on another plane....

When we say buying F-16s, we'll buy weapons, spares, infrastructure for these new planes....

Does US agree if we want to integrate Aastra and Sudharshan....No Brahmos for sure... Since Russia won't allow it...

LM want to get rid of F-16 production and India seems a better opportunity, they want to milk even more..

If we agree to buy 100 planes.. then 6 - 8 yrs of production for our planes, then what about this production line...

You may say that even LCA is not good enough to counter 5th gen fighters right...Here comes the cost of the plane...

Having 120 LCAs at $ 30 - $35 million(note this is the cost per plane after development costs, but adding weapons and spares will bring it close to same value) F-16s will come no less than $ 70 million, add spares, weapons & infrastructure...

Buying F-16s will eat away our 5th gen funds.... Major chunk of AMCA funds for sure and might affect no of FGFAs too...

I am ok to have f-16 plant in India, but no F-16's in IAF

Since the above deal is not possible right now..... Let's wait for few years more and if LM/Us is ok to setup F-16 plant with no F-16s in India then it's ok else not ok with the plant

Please list the TOTs in the thread as per your post #8

How are you going to use f-16 Aesa radar without us approval....Post #7

Can u pls explain why AMCA or FGFA funds will not get affected due to f-16s in IAF
 
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Srinivas_K

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F16 I mean the latest block. The same technologies India can use in LCA.

LCA will progress no issue of F16 blocking the development of LCA as this project will form the base for AMCA.

As I have mentioned earlier it will help India become a maintenance hub. Regarding Pakistan this move will definitely rattle PAF and china.

Turkey only license produce F16's but India will get entire supply chain and eco system.

Tranfer technology, what technology, old 80's tech?
why should india invest in a plane which USA will no longer keep..why should we take a old generation plane?
most countries that are flying F-16 are planning to retire them, few like italy, Israel have started getting F35. Some are moving to eurofighter, some moved or moving to rafale, others to grippen. so in next 5-10 years, F-16 will be mostly gone only turkey or porkis or some west asian countries will have them. Even if we select F16, its production from india will only start in next 3-4 years. Turkey already have manufacturing hub for F16. Porkis F-16 are getting upgraded by turkey.

invest in LCA MK1A, MK2 will we enough to create jobs in india.

also, if navy too wants 57 planes, why can't we have same platform for both navy and airforce.
for this best option are F-18, Rafale and F35.
out of these 3 india should go for rafale as IAF has placed orders for 36, 57 can go to navy, IAF can order 36 more and these numbers are enough to bring production to india. so this too can bring jobs, get technologies etc.
 
Last edited:

Srinivas_K

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US is ready to transfer most of the technologies.

Secondly India also has AMCA project, we can get help from LM.

@Srinivas_K

And we'll end up with 4++ gen fighters while China gets 5th gen fighters...

More over no tech transfer from US... No Aesa tech, no engine tech, but 100's f-16s.... Moreover our defense budget is not huge enough to spend more on another plane....

When we say buying F-16s, we'll buy weapons, spares, infrastructure for these new planes....

Does US agree if we want to integrate Aastra and Sudharshan....No Brahmos for sure... Since Russia won't allow it...

LM want to get rid of F-16 production and India seems a better opportunity, they want to milk even more..

If we agree to buy 100 planes.. then 6 - 8 yrs of production for our planes, then what about this production line...

You may say that even LCA is not good enough to counter 5th gen fighters right...Here comes the cost of the plane...

Having 120 LCAs at $ 30 - $35 million(note this is the cost per plane after development costs, but adding weapons and spares will bring it close to same value) F-16s will come no less than $ 70 million, add spares, weapons & infrastructure...

Buying F-16s will eat away our 5th gen funds.... Major chunk of AMCA funds for sure and might affect no of FGFAs too...

I am ok to have f-16 plant in India, but no F-16's in IAF

Since the above deal is not possible right now..... Let's wait for few years more and if LM/Us is ok to setup F-16 plant with no F-16s in India then it's ok else not ok with the plant
 

Tactical Frog

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US defence firm Lockheed Martin wants to push ahead with plans to move production of its F-16 combat jets to India, but understands President Donald Trump's administration may want to take a "fresh look" at the proposal.
The whole point is that under the new Trump administration, Lockheed realizes it may never get the green light for moving the F-16 line to India.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the strength of Lockheed's proposal was to offer India becoming a production hub for all F-16's spare parts. A huge market for at least the next 20 years with so many F-16 s in service. I really doubt that Trump will buy the idea. And remember, Trump does not read long, complex notes . He only gets very simple ideas ... American jobs, made in America parts .
 

Mikesingh

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Wow! Lockheed seems to be under the impression that they will be able to palm off their F-16 production facilities to India which will accept the deal with open arms!

Having said that, I daresay that the F-16 blk 70/72 is a next gen 4++ fighter with all the gizmos required of a fighter having the latest cutting edge technology. It is a generation ahead of what the Pakis have. Producing them in India is going to be pretty cost effective too.





There are 4500 F-16s of various blocks being operated by air forces around the world. India could become the hub for their ORM (Overhaull/Repair/Maintenance) which will benefit us tremendously. Countries would also prefer to induct the block 70/72 as these have the latest on board technology and extremely cost effective. Stealth is the only asset it lacks. However modern radar technology is making stealth passe!

However, it seems Lockheed Martin has no plans to take the 100 per cent foreign direct investment route for the programme. If the deal gets through, It is likely to co-produce the F-16s blk 70/72 in collaboration with the Tata Advanced Systems Ltd., which has been its partner for other defence and aerospace programmes such as the C-130.



Thus, manufacture and ORM in India could likely be a win win situation for us.

My two bits.
 
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Alok Arya

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So, After we opened up 2nd and 3rd production line of Tejas, US feels its needs to review its proposal ..
Yes , very right move by mod . Main tot of engine which we will getting through France . And second of aesa , we getting it from Israel in miniaturisation of GaN module , and second is of air to ground mode of Uttam which facing difficulties, now getting rectified with the help of France . Other major technologies of ew suites , in which India making progress with the help of Israel . But if f 16 come with major tot of engine , aesa , actuators , ew suit suits , advance composite etc etc it can cut sort the time period and also make India a mro facility , upgradation center for 4500 fighter for next 30 year , it is good for us as well as USA . USA gain a stretegic hand in Indian defence arena , which is a long term plan of USA .
 

Tarun Kumar

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Where is USD18bn for the F16V prodn line. I dont know how GOI plans to get the money. better to buy more Su 30, few more squads of rafale and focus on LCA. We dont need gravy train for Tyagi type corrupt Air force officials
 

Mikesingh

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Where is USD18bn for the F16V prodn line. I dont know how GOI plans to get the money. better to buy more Su 30, few more squads of rafale and focus on LCA. We dont need gravy train for Tyagi type corrupt Air force officials
Think of the long term benefits in having an F-16 production/ORM line here.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Who is making rumor that french are putting their nose in every Indian program .. ?

They are only involve in Kaveri engine program to some extend ..

Yes , very right move by mod . Main tot of engine which we will getting through France . And second of aesa , we getting it from Israel in miniaturisation of GaN module , and second is of air to ground mode of Uttam which facing difficulties, now getting rectified with the help of France . Other major technologies of ew suites , in which India making progress with the help of Israel . But if f 16 come with major tot of engine , aesa , actuators , ew suit suits , advance composite etc etc it can cut sort the time period and also make India a mro facility , upgradation center for 4500 fighter for next 30 year , it is good for us as well as USA . USA gain a stretegic hand in Indian defence arena , which is a long term plan of USA .
 

Alok Arya

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Who is making rumor that french are putting their nose in every Indian program .. ?

They are only involve in Kaveri engine program to some extend ..
You may be right but I think there are several other tot including tvc of metero for air to air missile , and completion of Uttam aesa in rafale deal .
 

asianobserve

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USAF has lost 3 F-16s since October... I wouldn't be looking at that death trap.
It shows more the tempo of F-16 use than mechanical reliability. F-16 in the right hands is one of the safest and still one of the most lethal fighters. No wonder Belarus is benchmarking Russian SU30 against it.
 

Armand2REP

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It shows more the tempo of F-16 use than mechanical reliability. F-16 in the right hands is one of the safest and still one of the most lethal fighters. No wonder Belarus is benchmarking Russian SU30 against it.
Who is a more capable operator than USAF? If they can't keep the crash rate down no one can.

Belarus is a dictatorship, they aren't benchmarking anything much less considering F-16s. The source is Regnum which considers Lushenko and Putin as "facist occupiers."
 

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