LOC, LAC & International Border skirmishs

[Bornubus]

Is this an escalation from the Chinks in terms of rhetoric? Correct me if I'm wrong but looks like the previous warnings were not coming from the army but from mouth pieces. This is the defense ministry spokesman talking.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...er-the-cost/story-51We6X8d3294lCqzwCxiaO.html

Sikkim standoff: Chinese army warns India not to harbour illusions over Doklam, says will defend territory at all costs
The People’s Liberation Army said its capability to protect China’s territory was “indomitable” and it was ready to step up deployment on the plateau.

they are showing India as an aggressor

they are building a similar situation where India tells pakistan to behave and move back.
India should give a strong message that Chinese need to behave

Unprecedented ! Can't remember when was the last time when high ranking PLA spokesman brief media on India China standoff.


This PLA officer who made the press statement was official spokesperson i think, can't say about his rank though.


That reminds me of Kargil war. Such similar press briefings and warnings use to be issued by our high ranking officials at that time and in the same tone.


Gen JJ Sikhs was DGMO at that time, Gen Bikram Singh was Col and spokesperson (if i remember it correct) and one more Sikh in MEA.


These 3 Sikh gentleman used to brief joint press conferences. That video is still on YT

 

[Kshatriya87]

DISPATCH FROM DOKLAM: INDIANS DIG IN FOR THE LONG HAUL IN STANDOFF WITH CHINA

Indian soldiers on the border say they are quickly closing the capability gap with China and will not leave Bhutan to its fate

BY SUBIR BHAUMIK

24 JUL 2017

As I travel up from eastern India’s Bagdogra airport to Gangtok and then to Indian army’s Nathang base near the fraught Doklam area, I count at least six military convoys heading in the direction of Sikkim’s border with China.

At Nathang, a few kilometres from Doklam in the now-famous “tri-junction” of Tibet, Bhutan’s Doklam plateau and Sikkim’s Chumbi valley, the theatre of the ongoing stand-off between Indian and Chinese forces , the build-up is even more palpable, even though vehicles carrying artillery pieces and light tanks slither through the night to avoid public attention.

New bunkers are being built, the ground is being mined to pre-empt Chinese attack, machine-gun nests are being placed at strategic points, and soldiers are performing battle drills at least twice a day. But restraint is still the buzzword.

An Indian soldier stands guard at the Nathu La border crossing between India and China in Sikkim state. Handout photo

“We are under clear orders not to exacerbate the tensions, so we won’t provoke a scuffle, certainly not a firefight, but we are ready for a suitable response if the Chinese get aggressive,” says a young captain of India’s famous “Black Cats” division at Nathang. The cheerful-looking captain, in his late 20s, can’t be named as he is not authorised to speak to the media. The media isn’t even supposed to be here. The Indian Army isn’t embedding reporters as yet.

Nathang serves as a base to reinforce India’s forward outpost of Lalten in the tri-junction. Lalten is located in higher ground that gives the Indians a clear view of the Chinese movements in Tibet’s Yadong zone that is part of the Chumbi Valley between Indian and Bhutanese hill territory. This part of the Chumbi Valley, at a height of 3,000 metres (9,800 ft) is likened to a broad dagger aimed at the so-called “Chicken’s Neck”, a narrow corridor that connects Indian mainland to its remote Northeast.

Chinese troops hold a banner which reads ‘You’ve crossed the border, please go back’ in Ladakh, India. China is insisting that India withdraw its troops from a disputed Himalayan plateau. Photo: AP

India is paranoid about the Chicken’s Neck for its potential vulnerability. But this is also where the Indian army has terrain and tactical advantages of higher ground and a clear vantage point in the event of a border clash. “It’s important for us to stop the Chinese here because if we fail, they will roll on to the Chicken’s Neck and can cut off our northeast,” says the captain.

At Lalten, says a lieutenant colonel, the Chinese troops crossed into Indian-held ground in June and smashed two bunkers built by the Black Cats. “We restrained our troops with some difficulty, we ensured nobody fired but we finally pushed back the Chinese physically.”

A Indian national flag is flown next to the Chinese national emblem during a welcome ceremony for visiting Indian officials outside the Great Hall of the People in Beijing. Photo: AP

The captain says the Indian army is determined to stop construction of the C40 road (capable of carrying a 40-tonne load) that the Chinese have been trying to build through Bhutan’s Doklam plateau from Yadong to connect to the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) forward post opposite Lalten.

Under its treaty obligations to Bhutan, India must come to the Buddhist kingdom’s aid in times of military need, and the Chinese efforts to build the road in this undemarcated region was seen as such a provocation. Bhutan joined India in boycotting May’s Belt and Road Summit in Beijing, which is said to have provoked China. Indian analysts believe the Chinese decided to start building the C40 road through Doklam after the summit to test India’s special relations with Bhutan.

“They are trying to show Bhutan who calls the shots in the Himalayas. So we have to ensure we are capable of defending Bhutan’s territorial integrity,” says Maj-Gen Gaganjit Singh, who commanded a division in India’s Northeast before retiring as the deputy chief of the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA). “We have to prove we can defend Bhutan and we are determined not to lose the current terrain and tactical advantage we have in Chumbi Valley.”

Chumbi Valley is among the few areas in India’s Sikkim state – adjoining the theatre of conflict – in the 3,500km-long disputed border between India and China.

After jettisoning its traditional, defensive “just-hold-the-border” strategy, India has spent the last four years raising a mountain strike corps of about 80,000 for a new limited offensive doctrine in the event of a war.

Young Buddhist monks attend the Buddhist Summer Council at the Diskit monastery in the Nubra Valley in India's Ladakh region near the Chinese border. Photo: AFP

“That worries the Chinese PLA, now that we have better infrastructure and a much better strategic airlift capability, with many advance landing grounds in the Himalayas for the newly inducted giant US-built transport aircrafts to operate from,” says Maj-General Apurba Bardalai, who has commanded the Indian Military Training Team in Bhutan and brigade formations in India’s northeast. “With every passing day, we are closing the gap with the Chinese in terms of capabilities.”

And that is exactly what may be fueling the hostilities. “Failing to build the road will undermine the PLA’s domination strategy in the disputed Himalayan border. It will pour water over Chinese attempts to draw Bhutan into its fold by undermining its special relations with India,” says Subir Dutta, a former Intelligence Bureau officer specialising in China.

India has called for resolving the issue through dialogue, but China insists the Indian army must pull back first. “But the moment we vacate our forward posts, the Chinese will build the road through Bhutanese territory. We can’t allow that,” says a brigadier at the Black Cats headquarters.

Vehicles travel along a mountain road near the Nathula Pass, an open trading post in the Himalayas between India and China, in Sikkim, India. Photo: Bloomberg

With so much at stake on both sides, a resolution is unlikely anytime soon. At least that’s what the Black Cats think. “We would love peace to return. We want normal relations with the Chinese in maintaining tranquillity on the border. But we are digging in for a long haul because there’s no let-up in the aggression on the other side,” says the brigadier, who also cannot be identified.

As I am speaking with the brigadier in a tent, the buzz of activity seems to be picking up outside. Soldiers constructing bunkers and building other fortifications try to complete their assignment, racing against time as the sun sets on a cloudy day. “Speed up guys,” barks an officer supervising the construction.

“We don’t want war, but we are prepared for it and this is not 1962. Diplomacy should work and normal relations should be restored, but we are not going to be cowed down by threats,” the brigadier says.

China conducted military exercises in Tibet just after the Doklam stand-off began and its official media has threatened teaching a lesson to the Indian army if it doesn’t pull back from Bhutanese territory.

“But those are routine exercises, so we are not perturbed,” says the brigadier. “We are not leaving Bhutan to its fate, come what may.”

Bhutanese graziers at Jigme Kesar nature reserve just behind the Doklam plateau, however, don’t seem to mind being left alone. “We don’t want war between two large armies like India and China. That won’t be good for Bhutan,” says grazier Pema Namgyal.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Some reports are stating that PLA deliberately escalated this on request from Pak army as casualties of pak army for 2017 has crossed 60 and are being hidden from public. This includes huge fire assaults on April 17, May 9 and July 19 each of which claimed at least 10-15 soldiers. My belief is lets withdraw from Doklam and prepare for full scale 2 front war by signing emergency weapons pact with US, not a limited war. Any limited war with China would suit the Pakis the most as we will loose few thousand soldiers for nothing and may even loose Doklam.

Tu paki hai.

Why the hell should we withdraw? This has already been cleared time and again. Don't keep repeating your stupid rants here.

Once we withdraw, where is the question of losing Dolam? Dolam is already lost.

We will lose thousands of soldiers in a war with pakistan? Tu paki hi hai sale..

 

[Kshatriya87]

just a rhetoric
pakis r telling them what to speak lol

Pakis begging everyday to chini.. "saar, saar please yeh wala statement release karo na saar."

 

[Kshatriya87]

Ok how many threats more before we massacre those slant eyes gooks?

Looks like these rants will kill us before the bullets do.

 

[square]

Some reports are stating that PLA deliberately escalated this on request from Pak army as casualties of pak army for 2017 has crossed 60 and are being hidden from public. This includes huge fire assaults on April 17, May 9 and July 19 each of which claimed at least 10-15 soldiers. My belief is lets withdraw from Doklam and prepare for full scale 2 front war by signing emergency weapons pact with US, not a limited war. Any limited war with China would suit the Pakis the most as we will loose few thousand soldiers for nothing and may even loose Doklam.

what happened to your new id neth123 ?

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

@Kshatriya87 bhai what are these sub script thingys in this report? are they your inputs? or are they reporters
's?... no matter how you see them they are exxtremely., blatantly anti india...

 

[Flame Thrower]

Geelani and his six sons arrested...

I hope this is relevant thread to post. If not, mods please move it.

 

[Kazah]

Tu paki hai.

Why the hell should we withdraw? This has already been cleared time and again. Don't keep repeating your stupid rants here.

Once we withdraw, where is the question of losing Dolam? Dolam is already lost.

We will lose thousands of soldiers in a war with pakistan? Tu paki hi hai sale..

what happened to your new id neth123 ?

It's better not to quote him and give him attention. Let him come here daily and spend his regular "India should move back" replies and go.

He is a part of daughter selling brigade who sell their wives & daughters to invaders just to save themselves

 

[Kshatriya87]

@Kshatriya87 bhai what are these sub script thingys in this report? are they your inputs? or are they reporters
's?... no matter how you see them they are exxtremely., blatantly anti india...

They are part of the article. They are links to other articles. Not my inputs.

I removed them.

 

[square]

Pakis begging everyday to chini.. "saar, saar please yeh wala statement release karo na saar."

i think now chinese calling pakistani posters to repeat after their media .....coz chinese citizens not intrested !!!

 

[square]

It's better not to quote him and give him attention. Let him come here daily and spend his regular "India should move back" replies and go.

they are repeating after their masters.....

boolo bachoo.....

A for......apple........B for.....

 

[Screambowl]

This PLA officer who made the press statement was official spokesperson i think, can't say about his rank though.


That reminds me of Kargil war. Such similar press briefings and warnings use to be issued by our high ranking officials at that time and in the same tone.


Gen JJ Sikhs was DGMO at that time, Gen Bikram Singh was Col and spokesperson (if i remember it correct) and one more Sikh in MEA.


These 3 Sikh gentleman used to brief joint press conferences. That video is still on YT

Bull's eye

GOI needs to send back the same statement.

There is no question of talk unless until Chinese pull back.

......................................................................

 

[Tarun Kumar]

India will loose few thousand soldiers in limited war with China not Paki. And I am not a Paki. Limited war with China is madness. We must build to wage full scale war on both fronts not a limited war.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

India will loose few thousand soldiers in limited war with China not Paki. And I am not a Paki. Limited war with China is madness. We must build to wage full scale war on both fronts not a limited war.

Kiddo in war death is inevitable.

India lost 9 good men this month alone. Yet we still move on.

 

[mahesh]

India will loose few thousand soldiers in limited war with China not Paki. And I am not a Paki. Limited war with China is madness. We must build to wage full scale war on both fronts not a limited war.

then what do you say about the limited wars which already happened in history between china and india which favored us.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

Which 11 bridges is he talking about?

It seems COAS Bipin Rawat will not sit quiet and sacrifice his men as cannon fodder.

Once the threshold is punctured,
WE WILL ATTACK FIRST.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

Kiddo in war death is inevitable.

India lost 9 good men this month alone. Yet we still move on.

Yes death is inevitable but it must serve some strategic purpose. Pakis regularly sacrifice dozens of soldiers on LOC, did it shake LOC by one inch. But they are an army ruling a country and soldiers are dispensable and casualties hidden (60+ this year alone). Their army needs bogey of India threat to justify its existence. We can forestall Chinese advance across LOC but defending doklam or even other northern areas of Bhutan in a limited war will be next to impossible. On top of that loss of thousands of soldiers just to defend our own turf will pull Bhutan and nepal inexorably out of our orbit, will lead to massive stock crash and economic crash coupled with regional insurrections. This will weaken us irreparably. We need 10 years to prepare for a full scale 2 front war and need energy for that. A wise player knows that strategic games are like chess not street fight with 56 inch chest. Abuse me as much as u may, but I will be proved right. Finally this limited war will be a precursor to a full scale war in 2024 except that India will be much weaker then to fight a multi front war that is coming. I will not post on this forum any more due to constant abuse but rest assured I am certain what is coming this year will set the stage for something much bigger later where we will suffer a lot till restoration happens under a new crop of soldier kings led by the king of kings.

 

[indus]

India will loose few thousand soldiers in limited war with China not Paki. And I am not a Paki. Limited war with China is madness. We must build to wage full scale war on both fronts not a limited war.

If we would lose few thousand soldiers in a limited war itself can you not fathom how many more would we lose in a full scale war. How does your argument helps India then..???

What you write is completely bereft of any logic. From withdraw from DokLam to full scale war with China you have done a complete 180 degree turn on your arguments. There are a lot of levels before it war reaches full scale level. This kind of stupid thinking held us back from attacking Pakistan coz it would result in war and nukes flying over Delhi & Slumbad. Its not so trivial as you think. And btw lets leave war planning to the Generals.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

If we would lose few thousand soldiers in a limited war itself can you not fathom how many more would we lose in a full scale war. How does your argument helps India then..???

What you write is completely bereft of any logic. From withdraw from DokLam to full scale war with China you have done a complete 180 degree turn on your arguments. There are a lot of levels before it war reaches full scale level. This kind of stupid thinking held us back from attacking Pakistan coz it would result in war and nukes flying over Delhi & Slumbad. Its not so trivial as you think. And btw lets leave war planning to the Generals.

When a full scale war will come (7-10 years from now) there wont be any calculations on casualties or calculations. That will set the chain of events leading to mega global war but at least we will be better prepared. Right now going for a limited war will make us loose both doklam and thousands of soldiers on top of that our economy and military buildup. China will suffer little but we will suffer much more loosing our momentum when the real test comes.