LOC, LAC & IB warfare

[Hiranyaksha]

China's PLA warns India: Learn lessons from 1962 defeat, stop clamouring for war http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/china-warns-india-to-remember-1962-stop-clamouring-for-war/story-SsjgL5nMONHpZ50dvdwuCP.html

Learn lessons from 1962 defeat, stop clamouring for war.
Classic Chinese statement.

China’s PLA warns India: Learn lessons from 1962 defeat, stop clamouring for war
China warned that the precondition for settling the current stand-off in the Sikkim sector is that India withdraws its troops immediately.
WORLD Updated: Jun 29, 2017 17:24 IST

• Old Indian bunker in Sikkim removed by China using bulldozer: Report

• 
  
  Amid China standoff, army chief Gen Rawat to visit Sikkim on Thursday

He said PLA troops responded to India troops trespassing into Chinese territory.

“The Indian border troop personnel have entered the Chinese territory in the Sikkim sector of the India-China borders. They tried to stop the normal activities of the Chinese border defence forces in the Donglang region. We carried out appropriate responses to halt these activities to safeguard our national sovereignty and territorial integrity,” Wu said.

When asked about the China-Bhutan boundary dispute in the Donglang area, Wu said it wasn’t true that PLA soldiers were operating in Bhutan.

“I have to correct you when you say that Chinese troops entered Bhutan territory.

“The personnel have been operating on the Chinese territory. We have made very clear to the Indian side that they should correct their wrong doing and withdraw their personnel from the Chinese territory,” he said.

The Donglang or Doklam area is located at the narrow but strategic tri-junction of India, China and Bhutan and not far from Nathu La pass. It is under Chinese control and lies within the TAR but is claimed by Bhutan. Thimphu doesn’t have diplomatic ties with Beijing, and the border dispute remains despite 24 rounds of negotiations between the two.

In separate press briefing, the foreign ministry said India must withdraw troops from the area to resolve the dispute.

“We urged the Indian side to withdraw troops... This is the precondition for the settlement of the incident and also the basis for us to conduct a meaningful dialogue,” spokesperson Lu Kang said.

Read more

• 
  
  India has ‘hidden agenda’, no one should interfere in our territory, says China
• 
  
  Bhutan issues demarche to Beijing, protests over India-China border row

Giving the briefing a touch of the dramatic, Lu briefly displayed a photograph of a map showing the Donglang area, saying it is part of Chinese territory.

“The Sikkim sector of the China-India border has a clear legal basis. There is solid legal evidence to support the delimitation of the Sikkim section of the China-India boundary. It is stated in Article One of the Convention Between Great Britain and China Relating to Sikkim and Tibet (1890) that “the boundary of Sikkim and Tibet shall be the crest of the mountain range separating the waters flowing into the Sikkim Teesta and its affluents from the waters flowing into the Tibetan Mochu and northwards into other rivers of Tibet,” he said.

Lu did not comment on Bhutan issuing a demarche to China, asking Beijing to stop construction in the Donglang area.

 

[hit&run]

What do you want the GOI to say, that IA has destroyed the road that violates Bhutans territorial integrity? Have you thought about the repercussions of such statement.
Or
How do you counter some foolish kid who is bringing in maps from 1890.
Also
Did you forget Modi's speech in Russia about China, about how not 1 single bullet has not been fired since 40 years. Perfect timing while IA was destroying chinese roads in bhutan.

No worries, I got your POV. Your read of the situation is different than me.
..............................................

The school I come from taught me that China turned Military defeat into Propaganda victory. The loss was so profound that Indians are still clueless how to deal with them.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikk...a-is-a-problem-of-our-own-making-3756621.html

Sikkim border standoff: India's Look East policy has utterly failed, China is a problem of our own making
IndiaFP StaffJun, 29 2017 13:34:32 IST
#Bri#Chamoli#China#Connectthedots#Cpec#India#Look east#Narendra modi#Newstracker#Obor#One belt one road#Pakistan#People's liberation army of china#Pla


In early June, two helicopters of the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA) hovered over Chamoli district. The act triggered concern in India's security establishment about the PLA. After all, this was their fourth incursion into Indian airspace since March 2017.


File image of Narendra Modi and Xi Jinping. Reuters

China defended the act, saying it had a territorial dispute with India in the eastern section of their boundary and that the Chinese military carry out regular patrolling in the relevant areas.

Interestingly, the incident occurred just days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Russia, stated that not a single bullet had been fired at the India-China border in the last 40 years despite the simmering boundary dispute between the two neighbours.

Where some might see coincidence, others say this is just the latest example of China testing India and the failure of its Look East policy, which was introduced under PV Narasimha Rao and endorsed by the Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh governments and later rebranded as "Act East" policy by Modi (which focused on North East).

What is the Look East/Act East policy?

According to Institute for Defence Analyses experts Rajorshi Roy and Sampa Kundu, the Look East policy aimed at reducing India’s isolation in international affairs and boosting India’s involvement with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in order to benefit from the advantages of regional cooperation. ASEAN comprises 10 countries: Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

China, the real danger

However, some argue India's focus on the Look East/Act East policy, overlooked the real threat to India, namely China.

Experts have been sounding the alarm bells with respect to the Dragon as far back as 2009, when in the aftermath of the 2008 Mumbai attacks, former prime minister Manmohan Singh government had been focusing its attention on Pakistan.

Then Indian Air Force chief Fali Homi Major said: "China is a totally different ballgame compared to Pakistan," he said. "We know very little about the actual capabilities of China, their combat edge or how professional their military is…they are certainly a greater threat."

Writing for the South Asia Monitor, Delhi-based strategic analyst Jai Kumar Verma argued in late 2016: "The real danger to India is however, an expansionist China; it is member of United Nations Security Council with veto power, and has lot of surplus funds which it spends on poor countries to gain their support. China is much ahead of India in military power; it has bigger armed forces, more and better nuclear warheads and is modernising its armed forces at a much faster pace than India, especially in cyber and space."

The BBC quoted India's former eastern army chief of staff Lieutenant General JR Mukherjee as saying, "China has vastly beefed up its military infrastructure in Tibet and we are only catching up. Unless we do that, China will always arm-twist us on the border and try to impose a solution on its terms."

Writing for The Times of India, Indrani Bagchi said: "China is playing the same game in South China Sea and PoK (Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir) – inch forward, but altering the ground situation irrevocably on the way. In fact, the PLA’s frequent incursions/ transgressions (whatever you will) also have the same aim of marking territory. China is using both infrastructure and political tools to make Pakistan 'own' PoK."

China's String of Pearls and India's response

Writing for India Today, Prabhash K Dutta argued that by asserting its control over Pakistan's Gwadar port, China seems to have completed its String of Pearls — which refers to the number of civilian and military projects in Strait of Malacca, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, the Maldives, the Strait of Hormuz, Somalia, Bangladesh and Myanmar and which may, in the near future, allow China a foothold in the Indian Ocean region and some day become a Blue Water Navy — Dutta argued that China has been strategically cultivating relationships to encircle and isolate India.

But all is not lost. Dutta argued: "India has invested a lot diplomatically and entered into multiple pacts with countries like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Mongolia - all surrounding China. Besides, India has good old friends in Japan, South Korea and Russia."

India's muddled approach to One Belt One Road initiative

Soon after he took office, Modi told world leaders his government accorded high priority to turn India's erstwhile "Look East" policy into an "Act East" policy.

However, the truth is that the prime minister's efforts have been inconsistent at best.

Take the Dragon's greatest and most controversial gambit: One Belt One Road initiative (OBOR), which comprises various infrastructure projects surrounding the establishment of rail and road communication links between Gwadar on Pakistan’s Makran coast to Kashgar in China’s Xinjiang province.

India boycotted China's high-profile Belt and Road Forum, protesting the fact that the Chinese-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) traversed through Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir (PoK). While some declared it as a "moral victory" and praised India for taking the high ground, others assailed India for giving in to China.

Writing for The Indian Express, former Union minister Manish Tewari described India's abstention from OBOR as the grandest failure of Indian foreign policy. "By boycotting the summit rather than showing up and making our voice heard loud and clear in the comity of nations, India has in fact sent out a message that it will make proforma noise on this issue but actually acquiesce to the fait accompli," Tewari wrote.

Time for a new look

In December 2016, this Firstpost article argued that India is in dire need of a new China policy. The article credited the signing of the Border Peace and Tranquility Agreement in 1993 as the reason for the relationship between the countries stabilising after the 1962 India-China war, and opined that while it allowed for peace and focus on developing their economies, it was time for a new look.

"The strategy has served India well for at least a quarter of a century, a surprisingly long time considering the dynamic nature of foreign policy, but not anymore. There are increasing signs now that the balance of power between India and China has changed. There is now less equilibrium between both nations who may not yet be on a path of direct confrontation but find themselves frequently locking horns on several issues on their divergent paths towards emerging as new 21st century powers... From India's point of view, the time is ripe for a re-engagement based on mutually agreeable interests. Peace with a China is imperative if India is to pursue its own trajectory to greatness."

Only time will tell if India can tame the Dragon.

 

[ezsasa]

Philippines just received 3000 assault rifles and 6 million ammunition, don't know where their loyalties lie.

http://www.rappler.com/nation/174190-china-military-aid-guns-ammunition-philippines-marawi-terrorism

America also sent 150m dollar worth arms and ammo last month to them.

 

[Mikesingh]

By importing $5 worth of goods from China for every $1 worth of exports to it, India not only rewards Chinese belligerence but also foots the bill for Beijing’s encirclement strategy.

Beijing’s annual trade surplus with India is large enough for it to finance one China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) every calendar year and still have a few billion dollars to spare. India’s most powerful weapon against China is trade.

Given China’s proclivity to deploy trade as a political weapon, as against South Korea in the latest case, why doesn’t India take a page out of the Chinese playbook? We need to stop the flow of Chinese goods to reduce the massive trade imbalance of nearly $60 billion in favor of China.

But as usual, we will do nothing of the sort. We'll keep 'fiddling while Rome burns'!

 

[Suryavanshi]

By importing $5 worth of goods from China for every $1 worth of exports to it, India not only rewards Chinese belligerence but also foots the bill for Beijing’s encirclement strategy.

Beijing’s annual trade surplus with India is large enough for it to finance one China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) every calendar year and still have a few billion dollars to spare. India’s most powerful weapon against China is trade.

Given China’s proclivity to deploy trade as a political weapon, as against South Korea in the latest case, why doesn’t India take a page out of the Chinese playbook? We need to stop the flow of Chinese goods to reduce the massive trade imbalance of nearly $60 billion in favor of China.

But as usual, we will do nothing of the sort. We'll keep 'fiddling while Rome burns'!

Is bar diwali me no Chinese Cracker

 

[Hiranyaksha]

By importing $5 worth of goods from China for every $1 worth of exports to it, India not only rewards Chinese belligerence but also foots the bill for Beijing’s encirclement strategy.

Beijing’s annual trade surplus with India is large enough for it to finance one China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) every calendar year and still have a few billion dollars to spare. India’s most powerful weapon against China is trade.

Given China’s proclivity to deploy trade as a political weapon, as against South Korea in the latest case, why doesn’t India take a page out of the Chinese playbook? We need to stop the flow of Chinese goods to reduce the massive trade imbalance of nearly $60 billion in favor of China.

But as usual, we will do nothing of the sort. We'll keep 'fiddling while Rome burns'!

We can't do it overnight. Will take us ages . Till then "Rome" must not be burnt.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikk...a-is-a-problem-of-our-own-making-3756621.html

Sikkim border standoff: India's Look East policy has utterly failed, China is a problem of our own making
IndiaFP StaffJun, 29 2017 13:34:32 IST
#Bri#Chamoli#China#Connectthedots#Cpec#India#Look east#Narendra modi#Newstracker#Obor#One belt one road#Pakistan#People's liberation army of china#Pla


In early June, two helicopters of the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA) hovered over Chamoli district. The act triggered concern in India's security establishment about the PLA. After all, this was their fourth incursion into Indian airspace since March 2017.


File image of Narendra Modi and Xi Jinping. Reuters

China defended the act, saying it had a territorial dispute with India in the eastern section of their boundary and that the Chinese military carry out regular patrolling in the relevant areas.

Interestingly, the incident occurred just days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Russia, stated that not a single bullet had been fired at the India-China border in the last 40 years despite the simmering boundary dispute between the two neighbours.

Where some might see coincidence, others say this is just the latest example of China testing India and the failure of its Look East policy, which was introduced under PV Narasimha Rao and endorsed by the Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh governments and later rebranded as "Act East" policy by Modi (which focused on North East).

What is the Look East/Act East policy?

According to Institute for Defence Analyses experts Rajorshi Roy and Sampa Kundu, the Look East policy aimed at reducing India’s isolation in international affairs and boosting India’s involvement with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in order to benefit from the advantages of regional cooperation. ASEAN comprises 10 countries: Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

China, the real danger

However, some argue India's focus on the Look East/Act East policy, overlooked the real threat to India, namely China.

Experts have been sounding the alarm bells with respect to the Dragon as far back as 2009, when in the aftermath of the 2008 Mumbai attacks, former prime minister Manmohan Singh government had been focusing its attention on Pakistan.

Then Indian Air Force chief Fali Homi Major said: "China is a totally different ballgame compared to Pakistan," he said. "We know very little about the actual capabilities of China, their combat edge or how professional their military is…they are certainly a greater threat."

Writing for the South Asia Monitor, Delhi-based strategic analyst Jai Kumar Verma argued in late 2016: "The real danger to India is however, an expansionist China; it is member of United Nations Security Council with veto power, and has lot of surplus funds which it spends on poor countries to gain their support. China is much ahead of India in military power; it has bigger armed forces, more and better nuclear warheads and is modernising its armed forces at a much faster pace than India, especially in cyber and space."

The BBC quoted India's former eastern army chief of staff Lieutenant General JR Mukherjee as saying, "China has vastly beefed up its military infrastructure in Tibet and we are only catching up. Unless we do that, China will always arm-twist us on the border and try to impose a solution on its terms."

Writing for The Times of India, Indrani Bagchi said: "China is playing the same game in South China Sea and PoK (Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir) – inch forward, but altering the ground situation irrevocably on the way. In fact, the PLA’s frequent incursions/ transgressions (whatever you will) also have the same aim of marking territory. China is using both infrastructure and political tools to make Pakistan 'own' PoK."

China's String of Pearls and India's response

Writing for India Today, Prabhash K Dutta argued that by asserting its control over Pakistan's Gwadar port, China seems to have completed its String of Pearls — which refers to the number of civilian and military projects in Strait of Malacca, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, the Maldives, the Strait of Hormuz, Somalia, Bangladesh and Myanmar and which may, in the near future, allow China a foothold in the Indian Ocean region and some day become a Blue Water Navy — Dutta argued that China has been strategically cultivating relationships to encircle and isolate India.

But all is not lost. Dutta argued: "India has invested a lot diplomatically and entered into multiple pacts with countries like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Mongolia - all surrounding China. Besides, India has good old friends in Japan, South Korea and Russia."

India's muddled approach to One Belt One Road initiative

Soon after he took office, Modi told world leaders his government accorded high priority to turn India's erstwhile "Look East" policy into an "Act East" policy.

However, the truth is that the prime minister's efforts have been inconsistent at best.

Take the Dragon's greatest and most controversial gambit: One Belt One Road initiative (OBOR), which comprises various infrastructure projects surrounding the establishment of rail and road communication links between Gwadar on Pakistan’s Makran coast to Kashgar in China’s Xinjiang province.

India boycotted China's high-profile Belt and Road Forum, protesting the fact that the Chinese-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) traversed through Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir (PoK). While some declared it as a "moral victory" and praised India for taking the high ground, others assailed India for giving in to China.

Writing for The Indian Express, former Union minister Manish Tewari described India's abstention from OBOR as the grandest failure of Indian foreign policy. "By boycotting the summit rather than showing up and making our voice heard loud and clear in the comity of nations, India has in fact sent out a message that it will make proforma noise on this issue but actually acquiesce to the fait accompli," Tewari wrote.

Time for a new look

In December 2016, this Firstpost article argued that India is in dire need of a new China policy. The article credited the signing of the Border Peace and Tranquility Agreement in 1993 as the reason for the relationship between the countries stabilising after the 1962 India-China war, and opined that while it allowed for peace and focus on developing their economies, it was time for a new look.

"The strategy has served India well for at least a quarter of a century, a surprisingly long time considering the dynamic nature of foreign policy, but not anymore. There are increasing signs now that the balance of power between India and China has changed. There is now less equilibrium between both nations who may not yet be on a path of direct confrontation but find themselves frequently locking horns on several issues on their divergent paths towards emerging as new 21st century powers... From India's point of view, the time is ripe for a re-engagement based on mutually agreeable interests. Peace with a China is imperative if India is to pursue its own trajectory to greatness."

Only time will tell if India can tame the Dragon.

What a complete waste of my time reading this trash.
We get it India is no match to China , you do not have to say it 7 times!!!.

LOL and finally articles ends with quote from Manish tiwari.

 

[hit&run]

By importing $5 worth of goods from China for every $1 worth of exports to it, India not only rewards Chinese belligerence but also foots the bill for Beijing’s encirclement strategy.

Beijing’s annual trade surplus with India is large enough for it to finance one China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) every calendar year and still have a few billion dollars to spare. India’s most powerful weapon against China is trade.

Given China’s proclivity to deploy trade as a political weapon, as against South Korea in the latest case, why doesn’t India take a page out of the Chinese playbook? We need to stop the flow of Chinese goods to reduce the massive trade imbalance of nearly $60 billion in favor of China.

But as usual, we will do nothing of the sort. We'll keep 'fiddling while Rome burns'!

I think we are making it more complicated

The amount/ deficit (multiple) you mentioned is not pure profit but total trade and the money transactions are circular.

Also clash at the Borders is not going to affect the investment both countries have already made.

Trade embargo is not a potent weapon.

The simple way to deal with this situation is to show our intent to escalate. Kill few of them launch full scale propaganda/initiative to put forth our POV to rest of the world. Play victim and Leave it for China to escalate it further.

 

[kstriya]

Most in pak are /were not dalits. Most were forcefull conversions you can easily make out. Dalits converted but very few compared to forcefull conversions.

Our dalit brothers had balls to resist the conversion..

 

[ezsasa]

At China Foreign Ministry today, spokesperson Lu Kang holds up pictures saying 'they prove India trespassed'

 

[Kunal Biswas]

For first time China is asking India to pull back its troops from its part of the territory ..

 

[mayfair]

My point was countering narrative that China is building by accusing India when they are the one who are changing the status Quo.

Furthermore China is not accusing Bhutan but India directly. The reaction from GoI is warranted.

That I agree with. India need to counter by saying that China is attempting to grab what it does not own and as it often does

 

[Akshay Fenix]

Tweet reply from raviraj3578.
And the 123 massacred the 3000 Chinese. But our own people ignorant, will watch 300 and be in awe not knowing we have had our 'spartan' heros!

 

[lcafanboy]

At China Foreign Ministry today, spokesperson Lu Kang holds up pictures saying 'they prove India trespassed'

Actually it's better to do incursion frequently and lay counter claim s and dispute border as this will force Chinese pigs to settle the border permanently as if they don't they will have to deploy troops or if it goes to war then the message should be clear it will be nuclear MAD which they too are not ready for.

 

[airtel]

. .

 

[Mikesingh]

For first time China is asking India to pull back its troops from its part of the territory ..

But that territory is disputed between Bhutan and China!!

. .

Doklam is a disputed area in Bhutan, not a legal part of China! So what right have they to build a road out there? It's just like the CPEC being built in disputed territory.

 

[Bornubus]

They are unarmed Indian troops making a human chain with an old Bulldozer.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Tweet reply from raviraj3578.
And the 123 massacred the 3000 Chinese. But our own people ignorant, will watch 300 and be in awe not knowing we have had our 'spartan' heros!

Its like the movie 300
Salute to you sir

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its what Chicom press said ..

Btw, We have military bases in Bhutan too ..

They don`t have a large standing Army, They chose us instead of China ..

But that territory belongs to Bhutan!!