Light tanks for Indian Army

[Kunal Biswas]

Why do we require Light Tanks?

They have no chance on the battlefield.

The only chance they have is in COIN, but would we use tanks in such a situation? Goes against the policy.

@Sir,
We require Light tanks at High Altitude Areas above 3,000m, these Light tanks are needed for destroying soft skin and bunker at ranges over 3000ms, further these tanks are capable enough to move through narrow space where T-72/55 cannot, Presently BMP-2 are stationed there but the are no match for our rival`s armored vehicles likePTL02 and more,Army RFI for 200 wheeled Guns system and 100 tracked Light tanks, Anders is part of tracked system..

Karu: One more mechanised infantry regiment of the Indian Army is to come up soon, comprising light infantry combat vehicles. As of now, only 52 such vehicles ( BMP-2 ) are manning the Sino-Indian border in Karu.

North Sikkim: The Indian Army plans to increase its armoured presence in this area. Most likely to be moved: the 66th Armoured Regiment.


PLA`s Expected Strategy:
PLA intend to use fully mechanized forces through LAC ( As per Mountain terrain )ALSO USING OF Airborne troops with Mech forces are part of Rapid Reaction Units

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR LIGHT TANKS WHEELED AND
TRACKED FOR INDIAN ARMY

1. The Indian Army is in the process of acquiring light tanks for use in semi
mountainous and mountainous regions in the North and North East, developed and
semi developed terrain in the Western borders and in the island territories.

2. The requirement is of approximately 200 light tanks (wheeled) and
approximately 100 light tanks (tracked). The information may please be provided in
detail in reply to the Request for Information:-

(a) Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) status of the equipment.

(b) Names of the firms, if any, that have been authorised by the OEM to
deal with the Indian MoD.

(c) Level of technology that the firm would be willing to transfer to a firm
that will be nominated by Indian MoD.

(d) Any other relevant inputs.



3. Two questionnaires giving specific inputs for the light tank wheeled and
tracked are given in Appendix A and B respectively. A Performa to be filled by the
vendors is attached as Appendix C.

4. The vendors are requested to respond to the RFI by 30 October at the
address given below:-

Director General of Weapons and Equipment (WE-8/9),
General Staff Branch,
Room No 208G, South Block,
IHQ of MoD (Army)
DHQ PO, New Delhi -110011

5. Inputs can be provided by Fax on No 0091-11-23793274 and by email ID:
[email protected].


http://indianarmy.nic.in/rfi/rfi300909.pdf

Full Detail:
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=5839&page=2


http://www.hindustantimes.com/Light-tanks-to-be-deployed-on-China-border/H1-Article1-461120.aspx
http://www.8ak.in/8ak_india_defence...es-to-face-chinas-continued-provocations.html
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/04/army-to-deploy-light-tank-along-chinese-border.htm

Thread:

PTL02:
The PTL02 assault gun is the WZ551 equipped with the 100mm Type 86 high velocity smoothbore cannon with a six slotted muzzle brake, fume evacuator and a thermal sleeve. Nothing like the the German and Russian assault guns of the Second World War, it can be compared to the M1128 Mobile Gun System, which is part of the Stryker LAV family. There are three 76mm smoke grenade dischargers either side of the turret and a cupola mounted QJC 88 12.7 x 108mm heavy machine gun. For an assault gun the vehicle is also very thinly armoured, but consistent when a turret is added to an armoured personnel carrier. The sharply angled turret front can only defeat a 12.7mm standard, not armour-piercing (AP), projectile at 100m and a 7.62mm AP projectile at 200m. The chassis front can stop a 7.62mm AP projectile at 100m, the sides of the vehicle at 200m and the rest of the vehicle is proof against standard ball rounds. Besides the traditional cavalry roles of flank protection, rear area security, and pursuing a defeated enemy, the PLA envisage it using to exploit a break though of enemy defences.

PLA Mountain Mech Infantry:
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=17068

Also this is a recent release of new pics:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?194227-Mysterious-PLA-mountain-units-soldiers


PLA Hard-wares Over Mountain terrain:
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=16694&page=1

PLA mechanized Airborne Infantry:
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=17029&page=1

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Only Wheeled Gun System with 120mm Cannon..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B1_Centauro

 

[Ray]

@ bengalrider
we are seeking only 100 Tracked light tanks
but 200 Wheeled light tanks, so pls get me the best wheeled tanks info which can suit India.

Any idea where it will be operative and in what role?

If we are going in for Light tanks, why did we discontinue with the PT 76, which was not only a light tank, but also amphibious.

 

[Ray]

India last used Light Tanks are PT-76, these were famous and created history,
they were one the main reasons to win 1971 war against pakistan.

Eastern Command's thrust into East Pakistan. India had one T-55 tank regiment in the northern sector supporting the XXXIII Corps' offensive in the Hilli-Bogra area, with one PT-76 regiment in the western area supporting the II Corps' thrust.

t least thirty PT-76 tanks were destroyed or damaged, another four T-55s had their tracks blown up over mines. The high loss rate among the PT-76 tanks was due to the fact that this type of tank had very thin armour plating to help assist its amphibious capabilities and was an easy target for mines. However all, but eleven, of the PT-76s were repaired after the war.

Pakistani armoured force of a regiment of M-24 Chafees in the Bogra area, countering India's T-55 regiment and two squadrons of Chafeee tanks supporting the west and Dacca sectors.

When full scale hostilities began, half the tanks were either knocked out or captured by the time the Indian troops were on the outskirts of Dacca.

 

[Blackwater]

The Only Wheeled Gun System with 120mm Cannon..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B1_Centauro

looks impressive on desert soil.

 

[black eagle]

This is concept 'Light Tank' on BMP-2 by DRDO at DEFXPO-10. Though i am not sure, may be picture owner Sayareakd can put some light on it.

pic copyright Sayareakd(DFI)

Even by the look of this , it looks outdated.. waiting for specification though...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

wouldn't it be wise to use our namica's instead of "light tanks" at lac.the namica's equipped with nag is an overkill even of chinese type-99 mbt let alone these lightly armoured whelled gun and bunkers.the namica can be armoured to the level of protection required by era panels developed by drdo for t-72.also can the arjun gun be mounted of mpv chassis which are and armoured whelled rakshak's used by the army?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

why can't the army order abhay icv for this requirement of light tank?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

wouldn't it be wise to use our namica's instead of "light tanks" at lac.the namica's equipped with nag is an overkill even of chinese type-99 mbt let alone these lightly armoured whelled gun and bunkers.the namica can be armoured to the level of protection required by era panels developed by drdo for t-72.also can the arjun gun be mounted of mpv chassis which are and armoured whelled rakshak's used by the army?

The problem is ATGM works better on open field, Also do note once fired ATGM takes time given the Enemy tank crew enough time to react ( Dispersing smoke granades and also creating thermal ), Thats why Namica is 100% good over flat terrain..

Arjun Gun is too Heavy and produce very high recoil its not suitable for Light tanks and Light Armored vehicles..
The Only 120mm Gun which can be mounted over Light Tanks and Wheeled armored vehicles are produce by GIAT..

Anders have same with certian modifications..

 

[bhramos]

Even by the look of this , it looks outdated.. waiting for specification though...

I didnt no its the same tank or not but got some info on DRDO's 105mm gun based on BMP-II.

105 mm Light Tank

DRDO has developed a light tank based on BMP-II chassis with 105 mm turret (GIAT industries, France). This
vehicle is aimed to carry high caliber weapons without sacrificing the strategic or tactical mobility. Mechanical
integration of turret with chassis, stability during firing, and compatibility of 105 mm Indian Armour Piercing Fin
Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) ammunition with turret have been established during the trials.




Salient Features
3 men crew for turret
105 mm semiautomatic main
gun with muzzle brake
Capable of firing APFSDS, APDS
(Armour Piercing Discarding
Sabot), HESH (High Explosive
Squash Head) ammunition
COTAC semiautomatic Fire
Control System (FCS)
Accurate ranging by LRF
Low-light level TV for
commander and gunner
Panoramic sight for
Commander
Al alloy turret with 12.7 AP
protection level
Amphibian capabilities
Stowing capability: Main gun�42 rounds; turret�10 rounds; ammunition compartment�32 rounds

http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf

more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_light_tank

 

[black eagle]

105 mm Light Tank

DRDO has developed a light tank based on BMP-II chassis with 105 mm turret (GIAT industries, France). This
vehicle is aimed to carry high caliber weapons without sacrificing the strategic or tactical mobility. Mechanical
integration of turret with chassis, stability during firing, and compatibility of 105 mm Indian Armour Piercing Fin
Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) ammunition with turret have been established during the trials.




Salient Features
3 men crew for turret
105 mm semiautomatic main
gun with muzzle brake
Capable of firing APFSDS, APDS
(Armour Piercing Discarding
Sabot), HESH (High Explosive
Squash Head) ammunition
COTAC semiautomatic Fire
Control System (FCS)
Accurate ranging by LRF
Low-light level TV for
commander and gunner
Panoramic sight for
Commander
Al alloy turret with 12.7 AP
protection level
Amphibian capabilities
Stowing capability: Main gun�42 rounds; turret�10 rounds; ammunition compartment�32 rounds

http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf

I am not sure if both the systems are same. coz the turret on both the BMP-II looks different from each other...
http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any idea where it will be operative and in what role?

If we are going in for Light tanks, why did we discontinue with the PT 76, which was not only a light tank, but also amphibious.

@Sir,
As its said It probably will be used over NE as a fire-support Vehicle along with BMP-2, Also its said it can be used for Amphibious operations..

Its True that PT-76 was discontinued Coz:

1.
After 71 war better tanks like T-55 replaced PT-76, T-55 had superior Armour better firepower and bigger engine it was better

2.
As Eastern front collapsed the Amphibious capability was considered less or not required anymore..

3.
Now we have a small Amphibious Force, Back in days we didnt have any Vision of such Force, Otherwise we could have seen PT-76 with a Bigger Gun today..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am not sure if both the systems are same. coz the turret on both the BMP-II looks different from each other...
http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf

Its a 105mm Howitzer ( Saya Sir`s Pic ), Simple its one of the most advance 105mm SPGH in the world with a 105mm Field Gun..

The Next is a BMP-2 with Nexter 105MM cannon for using against tanks as well as Infantry..

IA dropped DRDO light tank concept in favor of 120mm Gun system which can hit targets at 3000m where 105mm cannot..

 

[bhramos]

I am not sure if both the systems are same. coz the turret on both the BMP-II looks different from each other...
http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/2009/aug09.pdf

BMP-I Light Tank

An expenditure of Rs 26.79 lakh was incurred in modifying BMP (BOEVYA MACHINA PEKHOTA) vehicle as Light Tank with 90 mm turret, without properly assessing availability of BMP chassis for production. It was also stated that the expenditure being incurred on development of Light Tank with 105 mm turret would also prove infructuous as the Army did not have any requirement for the Light Tank either with 90mm or 105mm turret. Despite this DRDO continued with the project for another seven years and closed it in August 1996 after successful trails, incurring a total expenditure of Rs 4.53 crore.

Based on a GSQR projected by the Army in 1976, a project for 'Design and Development of Light Tank on BMP-I' was sanctioned in 1983 at an estimated cost of Rs 2.54 crore. In July 1985, the Army reassessed their requirement and held that no light tank on BMP was necessary. Nevertheless, the development of light tank continued. Furthermore, notwithstanding their earlier stand, the Army continued to be associated with the project. Based on suggestions of Army authorities, in October 1988, CVRDE (Combat Vehicle Research and development Establishment) amended the contract agreement, replacing 90mm turrets with 105mm turrets.

In April 1992, the project was transferred to VRDE, Ahmednagar from CVRDE. In May 1993, eight years after they had first so stated, the Army categorically reiterated that there was no requirement for light tank. In spite of SA to RM (Scientific advisor to Raksha Mantri) also recommending closure of the project in February 1994, the Establishment went ahead with firing trials for another two years. Finally, in August 1996, 10 years after the original PDC (Probable date of completion) and having incurred an expenditure of Rs 4.53 crore including foreign exchange of Rs 2.91 crore, the project was closed.

R&D HQ stated in November 2000 that cancellation of the contract for 105 mm turret was found not economical and hence the project was continued to take it to a logical conclusion. However the fact remained that R&D efforts and money was spent on an equipment the need for which had ceased to exist.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/bmp-t.htm

i am trying to dig more of the simillar image but with little hope, may be only saya could help us!!!

 

[pmaitra]

Question: Would non-tracked armoured vehicles, such as, BTR-70/80, qualify as a light tank?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Question: Would non-tracked armoured vehicles, such as, BTR-70/80, qualify as a light tank?

No, Even if some one mounted a 105mm the vehicle is not deigned to take such blow-backs..

 

[pmaitra]

No, Even if some one mounted a 105mm the vehicle is not deigned to take such blow-backs..

^^ Just for semantics sake, would you consider a German Panzer to be a tank?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

would you consider a German Panzer to be a tank?

BTR50/60/80 are more likely IFV / APCs

 

[pmaitra]

BTR50/60/80 are more likely IFV / APCs

That is a very subjective definition and one may or may not agree with calling BTR-70/80 a tank. Wikipedia states 'A Panzer (English pronunciation: /ˈpænzər/) is a German tank. Attributively, the term also refers to armoured military forces, as in panzer divisions or panzer battles.'. Panzer is the short form of 'Panzerkampfwagen', which means an armoured fighting vehicle. Hence, BTR-70/80 can also be called tanks. Same thing with any APC.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer

 

[bhramos]

Question: Would non-tracked armoured vehicles, such as, BTR-70/80, qualify as a light tank?

yes.........
they could be qualified as light Tanks but tracked have more potential and could be called as Light Tanks, but may be BTR-T [class] could be Tank supporting Vehicles .......