LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Lonewolf]

This is horrible. We are still dependent on imports for such critical components? Doesn't BEL makes LRUs too?

Do u know what pru are ?

 

[THESIS THORON]

This is horrible. We are still dependent on imports for such critical components? Doesn't BEL makes LRUs too?

no one in the world makes fully indigenous fighter, somethings are always imported.

 

[Vikas Lohia]

Do u know what pru are ?

PRU?? No, I don't sir.

 

[Lonewolf]

PRU?? No, I don't sir.

Lru likh rha tha , repeat the question with lru ? Now tell me what are lru ?

 

[Vikas Lohia]

View attachment 130995

no one in the world makes fully indigenous fighter, somethings are always imported.

I know that sir. But I hear 10 FoC Tejas are ready to be delivered but waiting for just one critical component. Also, this is 2016 order. Why didn't HAL secure this LRU beforehand? Our MiGs are falling from sky like hailstorm and our braveheart pilots are forced to fly in coffins. We have 2 front threats yet our IAF's squadron strength is depleted. Is no one worried here? I get nightmares of Shenyang J-11B

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

@Super Flanker
I think a meteor missile costs more than any fighter aircraft Pakistan has
Firing a meteor on jf17 , Pakistani version of f16 or mirage 3/4 would be a loss as these aircrafts cost less than meteor itself

Kya bhai ek baar check kar liya karo....

Meteor cost:- 2-3 million.

F16 cost(brand new)-65 million
F16 cost(second hand)-15-20 million

Its cost effective by a wide margin.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Kya bhai ek baar check kar liya karo....

Meteor cost:- 2-3 million.

F16 cost(brand new)-65 million
F16 cost(second hand)-15-20 million

Its cost effective by a wide margin.

also qoute the version of f16
paf uses very old version only few are block 50

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

also qoute the version of f16

Bruh. no F16 is gonna sell for less than 3 mill.....

Quoted figure was for block 52 BTW.

 

[THESIS THORON]

I know that sir. But I hear 10 FoC Tejas are ready to be delivered but waiting for just one critical component. Also, this is 2016 order. Why didn't HAL secure this LRU beforehand? Our MiGs are falling from sky like hailstorm and our braveheart pilots are forced to fly in coffins. We have 2 front threats yet our IAF's squadron strength is depleted. Is no one worried here? I get nightmares of Shenyang J-11B

calm down.

first thing is that,
all of us here agree that there is problem with the induction of platform in iaf (as migs are getting overused).

second thing is that,

the 2 front war is inevitable,
so, lets discuss abt porkistan, you need to understand that pakis have very serious debt and forex reserve issue.
they are barely maintaining 19billion dollars, which is too low. their f16s are of blk 50 standards and the junk fighter (blk1 and 2 ) are even worse than our jaguars. they have very old mirage 5 they are also shitty.

now regarding jf 17blk3, it is good fighter but it is inferior to our tejas mk1a.


now abt china,
they will only do salami slicing and Indian army can give the ans regarding that (but there should be political will), we have also inducted rafales for countering j20.

 

[Vikas Lohia]

calm down.

first thing is that,
all of us here agree that there is problem with the induction of platform in iaf (as migs are getting overused).

second thing is that,

the 2 front war is inevitable,
so, lets discuss abt porkistan, you need to understand that pakis have very serious debt and forex reserve issue.
they are barely maintaining 19billion dollars, which is too low. their f16s are of blk 50 standards and the junk fighter (blk1 and 2 ) are even worse than our jaguars. they have very old mirage 5 they are also shitty.

now regarding jf 17blk3, it is good fighter but it is inferior to our tejas mk1a.


now abt china,
they will only do salami slicing and Indian army can give the ans regarding that (but there should be political will), we have also inducted rafales for countering j20.

You say 2 front war is inevitable and yet you also say China will only do salami slicing? Care to elaborate?

Regarding porkistan, Been hearing it will go bankrupt for last 10yrs, but it never goes bankrupt. Their financial numbers do not add up and they never have enough Forex yet they just placed orders for J-10c. Pakistan is too big to fail(read nukes), someone always come and bail them out in just nick of a time. We can't just sit and pray that Pak implode on its own, can we?

You also say JF-17 Block III is inferior to TejasMk1A. Remind me, how many Mk1A units are in service or will be in service by 2024 end?

While you are at it, kindly also remind me, What is our IAF's officially sanctioned squadron strength? What is our actual squadron strength currently? And in our current squadron strength, how many of them are MiG 21s? Bonus question, will we be able to replace all aging MiGs before they all crash? Does our IAF have enough AWACS for two front threat?

I'm sorry to bombard with so many questions, but these questions keeps me awake at night. I am afraid.

 

[THESIS THORON]

You say 2 front war is inevitable and yet you also say China will only do salami slicing? Care to elaborate?

I meant, china will not engage with us in war until they capture taiwan. as they know that india will never be an aggressor.

So, they will do salami slicing for now or will keep us engaged to safeguard pok recapturing.

 

[Covfefe]

I meant, china will not engage with us in war until they capture taiwan. as they know that india will never be an aggressor.

So, they will do salami slicing for now or will keep us engaged to safeguard pok recapturing.

That's a very strong assumption, IMHO.

 

[Vikas Lohia]

I meant, china will not engage with us in war until they capture taiwan. as they know that india will never be an aggressor.

So, they will do salami slicing for now or will keep us engaged to safeguard pok recapturing.

We do not have any more Salami slices to offer. So far Chinese have taken advantage of the dubious definition of LAC. The "Perception of LAC" game has reached its conclusion. As per my understanding, Chinese only captured the territory which we both used to consider disputed, which we both used to patrol and which we both never occupied before. So if Chinese now want more slices, they will have to invade our perception of LAC. We will not tolerate this silently, and now our LAC is a highly militarized zone. Any stunt by Chinese will immediately attract retaliation from our troops.

 

[MonaLazy]

I know that sir. But I hear 10 FoC Tejas are ready to be delivered but waiting for just one critical component. Also, this is 2016 order. Why didn't HAL secure this LRU beforehand? Our MiGs are falling from sky like hailstorm and our braveheart pilots are forced to fly in coffins. We have 2 front threats yet our IAF's squadron strength is depleted. Is no one worried here? I get nightmares of Shenyang J-11B

Seen in the context of mig 21s falling from the skies and the fact that the order was placed 5-6 years ago and that this is the final batch so there are no unknowns any delay now is indeed depressing. HAL should have planned better since that's all they are doing now- planning the production pipeline, ordering components and putting the plane together. We can only take some heart from the fact that a foreign vendor is to blame. And once they get their act together the planes may yet be delivered on time.

 

[Covfefe]

Seen in the context of mig 21s falling from the skies and the fact that the order was placed 5-6 years ago and that this is the final batch so there are no unknowns any delay now is indeed depressing. HAL should have planned better since that's all they are doing now- planning the production pipeline, ordering components and putting the plane together. We can only take some heart from the fact that a foreign vendor is to blame. And once they get their act together the planes may yet be delivered on time.

How would we know if a foreign vendor is to blame? Ordering cycle from HAL also matters, and it's not that the CMD will himself say that we screwed up in placing orders with the vendors. Blaming vendors for the delay is a standard tactic in the industry
The fact that their LRUs are so delayed that they are hampering the assembly schedule points to 1) fault from vendor's end 2) shitty planning from HAL 3) some really cutting edge Variant/critical improvement was made in the LRU so as to wait for the improvement to be imbibed in the production

 

[MonaLazy]

How would we know if a foreign vendor is to blame?

It's published in a national newspaper that's why & the top boss has been very specific- could have obfuscated by saying "some" vendor is delaying to leave us guessing who it could be. I don't think HAL can get away with such a huge lie. The Israeli embassy will raise a storm if unfairly targeted.

Ordering cycle from HAL also matters, and it's not that the CMD will himself say that we screwed up in placing orders with the vendors. Blaming vendors for the delay is a standard tactic in the industry
The fact that their LRUs are so delayed that they are hampering the assembly schedule points to 1) fault from vendor's end 2) shitty planning from HAL 3) some really cutting edge Variant/critical improvement was made in the LRU so as to wait for the improvement to be imbibed in the production

1 & 2 (2 less so) are definite possibilities. 3 would have been a good excuse in 2017, not now when the standard of preparation is sealed.

Interview with HAL CMD: ‘No frozen standard of preparation of LCA… that’s where delays are coming’

"We have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year," said HAL CMD T Suvarna Raju

indianexpress.com

 

[Kharavela]

You also say JF-17 Block III is inferior to TejasMk1A. Remind me, how many Mk1A units are in service or will be in service by 2024 end?

To get answer of this question, you must ask the Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force Whether Tejas got even 10% of the support JF-17 got from PAF ?
It's because of late Manohar Parrikar and determination of LCA Team, we are seeing induction of Tejas in IAF.

While you are at it, kindly also remind me, What is our IAF's officially sanctioned squadron strength? What is our actual squadron strength currently? And in our current squadron strength, how many of them are MiG 21s?

If Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force are so worried about official sanctioned squadron strength and lives of our braveheart pilots, why didn't they ordered 360 MK1A (20 squadrons) instead of 83 ? Why they are so eager to import and scuttle Tejas program ? Why they are again planning for MMRCA 2.0 ?

Bonus question, will we be able to replace all aging MiGs before they all crash? Does our IAF have enough AWACS for two front threat?

Am I correct to say that Tejas FOC is far better than Mig 21 on any parameter ? If yes, then Why the Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force didn't go for 144 (8 squadrons) Tejas FOC ?
Your Chair Marshalls have made a zoo of aircrafts. I am not aware of any other prominent airforce having such diversity in active fighter jet category. Just imagine the logistical nightmare of maintaining required spares.

 

[mist_consecutive]

To get answer of this question, you must ask the Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force Whether Tejas got even 10% of the support JF-17 got from PAF ?

What support from PAF? Do you mean painting it in green color or attaching door-hinges bought from Lahore flea market ?

If Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force are so worried about official sanctioned squadron strength and lives of our braveheart pilots, why didn't they ordered 360 MK1A (20 squadrons) instead of 83 ? Why they are so eager to import and scuttle Tejas program ? Why they are again planning for MMRCA 2.0 ?

Because Tejas is designed as a light fighter. Ordering 20 squadrons of Tejas Mk1/1A will be making it the backbone of our airforce. A healthy air force should have a mix of light, medium and heavy fighters.

Am I correct to say that Tejas FOC is far better than Mig 21 on any parameter ? If yes, then Why the Chair Marshalls of Imported Air Force didn't go for 144 (8 squadrons) Tejas FOC ?
Your Chair Marshalls have made a zoo of aircrafts. I am not aware of any other prominent airforce having such diversity in active fighter jet category. Just imagine the logistical nightmare of maintaining required spares.

On any parameter? No, not really. There are multiple things Tejas (still) falls short of Mig-21, some are critical. Tejas FOC as of last year (when Derby was integrated) was falling short of A2A capabilities (no BVR). Astra is yet to be integrated. It did not have an autocannon, (You should see how HAL mad lads cut the paneling under Tejas to accommodate the gun in such a crude manner as if it is a Lorry), as well.

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See, you desi fanboys don't understand how an air force operates, what are the capabilities of the platform, and just scream murder when everything homemade is not accepted immediately in the forces.

I am not denying corruption is not present in defense forces, but don't slander them with false claims.

Tejas as a platform is still a work in progress. A lot of its systems are continuously being tested and improved. That includes its FBW, weapon system(s), avionics, radar and self-protection system.

 

[vishnugupt]

What support from PAF? Do you mean painting it in green color or attaching door-hinges bought from Lahore flea market ?

The principle Support, where PAF brought J17 almost zero subsystems. No FBW, No BVR/WVR missile, no EWS, I doubt even without Radar. Though UNAF also do the same but ONLY for import weapons.

A healthy air force should have a mix of light, medium and heavy fighters.

So according to you, All air forces around the world is suffering from Malnutrition as none operate like IAF.

On any parameter? No, not really. There are multiple things Tejas (still) falls short of Mig-21, some are critical. Tejas FOC as of last year (when Derby was integrated) was falling short of A2A capabilities (no BVR). Astra is yet to be integrated. It did not have an autocannon, (You should see how HAL mad lads cut the paneling under Tejas to accommodate the gun in such a crude manner as if it is a Lorry), as well.

Was Tejas was not intended to achieve FOC ?? Or IAF was unaware about term FOC?? How can you compare anything with unfinished product ?
If we apply your logic even F-35 is inferior to mig-21 because it wasn't carrying internal cannon in 2010 or some of even today (Gun pod)
"Dadi ko nakli muchh laga Dene se vo dada nhi ban jata". Mig-21 is a second generation jet and do not have effective BVR capability. If you believe then call Hawk trainer also a bomber as they can carry bombs.

See, you desi fanboys don't understand how an air force operates, what are the capabilities of the platform, and just scream murder when everything homemade is not accepted immediately in the forces.

See, You Import fanboys often don't understand how UN armed forces place impossible GSQR and Never involve in project ab initio and take decades of trials. which effectively make upcoming product nonviable. Don't forget Rafale yet to be upgraded.

Tejas as a platform is still a work in progress. A lot of its systems are continuously being tested and improved. That includes its FBW, weapon system(s), avionics, radar and self-protection system.

"The Desperation" of Import fanboys to excel their argument where it is impossible to even negotiate.
If Tejas is improving so did Mig-21 and so do others it doesn't mean it is inferior.

By the Way, How Mig-21's FBW is working??

No doubt Tejas is not sufficient but adequate for its role, performance and well fit into IAF's healthy combination.

 

[India Super Power]

@vishnugupt I am really in support of your posts
We are literally suffering due to imports
But sir today suddenly Ani reported pm is serious about indigenous programs
I know it won't have any effect on MoD and gernails but still do u think there is any particular reason for a sudden tweet(any major step)