LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[abingdonboy]

There is reason for cautious optimism. Guys with inside sources like this handle that predicted the Mk2 announcement also endorses it



More or less by the end of year.

Now if you factor in the original timeline, Mk1As are supposed to start delivering by March 2024. So moving that forward to October - December 2023 ie advancing the schedule by 3-6 months is not unthinkable and nothing out of the ordinary.

There’s almost no chance they are bringing forward the induction rates. The original tweet is likely conflating roll out and induction

 

[abingdonboy]

I personally think they should give follow on orders when they start receiving mk1a
I know it's usually given after completion but or requirement is very urgent
If iaf is serious then they should give follow on and increase production rate to 40-45 by establishing other lines

That would be welcome if they are serious about the squadron shortage. However all their focus is on MRFA so they won’t be doing this

 

[jai jaganath]

That would be welcome if they are serious about the squadron shortage. However all their focus is on MRFA so they won’t be doing this

I am speaking in addition to mrfa
If GOI and iaf are serious about war fighting capabilities
Bcoz the current fleet is not enough for few days forget sustained long wars
A lots of fund needs to be released by GOI compromising in some or other way bcoz sab bad ne kar sakte hai jab desh rahega
But no socialist policies are need of the hour to come to power Abe agar desh rahega tab Jake na power ayega
Sorry guys pls consider as rant(might be without logic) just deep feelings mods can delete if they want

 

[DukeDoode]

I personally think they should give follow on orders when they start receiving mk1a
I know it's usually given after completion but or requirement is very urgent
If iaf is serious then they should give follow on and increase production rate to 40-45 by establishing other lines

Jai, Lot of sane people have been saying that additional orders for Tejas mk1/mk1a needs to be made right now since negotiations for 83 aircraft got dragged on and then covid delayed mk1, mk1a and mk2 progress.

I don't know whether everybody remembers that MMRCA had an option of additional 64 aircraft. "Some reports add an option for an additional 64 aircraft on the same terms, bringing the total to 190 aircraft." https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/mrf.htm The rafale deal had option for 18 more. But, Tejas mk1a did not have any. In IAF scheme of things, Tejas order is essentially a consolation prize for HAL for setting up new production lines and giving up MMRCA. Thats was the reason they balked at the price and dragged out negotiations till 2021. For mmrca, Air Marshal PK Barbora, Ex vice Chief of Air Staff said, "The Air Force is not looking at price. That's not our area of concern. What we want is QRs are focussed on technical aspects, latest technology. Lot is available in the market and there is potential for future growth." https://idsa.in/TWIR/4_2_2011_NationalDef . IAF leadership will not spare any of their capex for a fighter which it did not want in the first place.

A 40+ additional order will definitely help in setting up another production line in Nashik. The capacity is idle there since Su-30 order was completed. But It will cost extra money to set up an assembly line.However Penny pinching on set up cost will not help squadron numbers. The only way for additional orders to happen is exports. For new domestic orders, HAL can do a PR campaign by exhibiting flight trials of mk1a to PM or Defence minister. But they need to do it sooner than aero India 2023. IAF on its own will not be inclined to order additional mk1a.
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[jai jaganath]

Jai, Lot of sane people have been saying that additional orders for Tejas mk1/mk1a needs to be made right now since negotiations for 83 aircraft got dragged on and then covid delayed mk1, mk1a and mk2 progress.

I don't know whether everybody remembers that MMRCA had an option of additional 64 aircraft. "Some reports add an option for an additional 64 aircraft on the same terms, bringing the total to 190 aircraft." https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/mrf.htm The rafale deal had option for 18 more. But, Tejas mk1a did not have any. In IAF scheme of things, Tejas order is essentially a consolation prize for HAL for setting up new production lines and giving up MMRCA. Thats was the reason they balked at the price and dragged out negotiations till 2021. For mmrca, Air Marshal PK Barbora, Ex vice Chief of Air Staff said, "The Air Force is not looking at price. That's not our area of concern. What we want is QRs are focussed on technical aspects, latest technology. Lot is available in the market and there is potential for future growth." https://idsa.in/TWIR/4_2_2011_NationalDef . IAF leadership will not spare any of their capex for a fighter which it did not want in the first place.

A 40+ additional order will definitely help in setting up another production line in Nashik. The capacity is idle there since Su-30 order was completed. But It will cost extra money to set up an assembly line.However Penny pinching on set up cost will not help squadron numbers. The only way for additional orders to happen is exports. For new domestic orders, HAL can do a PR campaign by exhibiting flight trials of mk1a to PM or Defence minister. But they need to do it sooner than aero India 2023. IAF on its own will not be inclined to order additional mk1a.
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Kripya intro dijiye

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

That would be welcome if they are serious about the squadron shortage. However all their focus is on MRFA so they won’t be doing this

Even if MRFA does happen, its production is going to be no more than 12-14 jets per year cause if you look at it, 114 is not big enough of a number to warrant building 30 jets/year.

 

[johnj]

Jai, Lot of sane people have been saying that additional orders for Tejas mk1/mk1a needs to be made right now since negotiations for 83 aircraft got dragged on and then covid delayed mk1, mk1a and mk2 progress.

I don't know whether everybody remembers that MMRCA had an option of additional 64 aircraft. "Some reports add an option for an additional 64 aircraft on the same terms, bringing the total to 190 aircraft." https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/mrf.htm The rafale deal had option for 18 more. But, Tejas mk1a did not have any. In IAF scheme of things, Tejas order is essentially a consolation prize for HAL for setting up new production lines and giving up MMRCA. Thats was the reason they balked at the price and dragged out negotiations till 2021. For mmrca, Air Marshal PK Barbora, Ex vice Chief of Air Staff said, "The Air Force is not looking at price. That's not our area of concern. What we want is QRs are focussed on technical aspects, latest technology. Lot is available in the market and there is potential for future growth." https://idsa.in/TWIR/4_2_2011_NationalDef . IAF leadership will not spare any of their capex for a fighter which it did not want in the first place.

A 40+ additional order will definitely help in setting up another production line in Nashik. The capacity is idle there since Su-30 order was completed. But It will cost extra money to set up an assembly line.However Penny pinching on set up cost will not help squadron numbers. The only way for additional orders to happen is exports. For new domestic orders, HAL can do a PR campaign by exhibiting flight trials of mk1a to PM or Defence minister. But they need to do it sooner than aero India 2023. IAF on its own will not be inclined to order additional mk1a.
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Necessity & requirement are two different things, foreign relations, warfare tactics, gov. polices etc affect requirement on the other hand necessity mainly depends on survival.
Since you considered IAF only, why not consider PAF & PLAAF also, PAF having requirement of 150~200 f16 , 36 f15/su 35 and love some 50 F 35, but they can only afford jf17 in numbers and with Russian engines, In case of PLAAF, they like to have some EU jets, US 5th gen etc.
IAF is dreaming, and living in fantasy world like children, betting 150 plus rafale earlier/now & people with brains knows it is not going to happen in India's terms, only future proof aircraft IAF can get is lca tejas & with US engines. IAF only wanted 40 lca, now buying 83 more, becz its the only option available now, and in near future, if mrfa or lca mk2 causes delay.
Additional order don't help to setup new production line, but help to add more years to production line run.
Su 30 production line is utilized for upgradation, overhaul of mki. Its does matter what IAF wants but what they can gets, and fighter jets not so cheap & easy to buy & brought by GoI snail process, ''option for additional'' also comes under same GoI snail process & very hard to achieve due to inflation.

 

[johnj]

Even if MRFA does happen, its production is going to be no more than 12-14 jets per year cause if you look at it, 114 is not big enough of a number to warrant building 30 jets/year.

Its depend on production itself. 30 jets/year is possible for assembly/knock down kits.
MRFA -- 2032/33 HAL manufacturer AMCA mk1, LCA mk2 & TEDBF when MRFA production starts ? or when MRFA selection, deal sign going to happen ?

 

[Vamsi]

 

[abingdonboy]

Its depend on production itself. 30 jets/year is possible for assembly/knock down kits.
MRFA -- 2032/33 HAL manufacturer AMCA mk1, LCA mk2 & TEDBF when MRFA production starts ? or when MRFA selection, deal sign going to happen ?

IAF’s MRFA RFI specifies 14/yr as induction rate

 

[abingdonboy]

Sometimes the cribbing is a little too much. If it’s this or another few years of importing BVRAAMs what’s the fuss? No one said import substitution was going to be an overnight process. At least india is making to specs and not merely reverse engineering Russian standards

 

[johnj]

IAF’s MRFA RFI specifies 14/yr as induction rate

Under ToT, SP model may be with maximum indigenous content.
Thank for the info 14/yr.

 

[MonaLazy]

what is holding up Tejasmk1 gun certification? Any ideas?

My guess, fbw logic needs to be added, mature and proven for gun firing in air. It's an unstable plane and firing does impart significant impulse force and can pitch and yaw the plane. Low priority for now, will get done in due course. Different from statically stable plane.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Indian Air Force will have 35 -36 combat squadrons by mid 2030s says IAF Chief

 

[Indx TechStyle]

New Weapon Systems Branch for IAF with new Camo

Air Force Day: All IAF systems under one roof, Govt clears dedicated branch

Tomorrow’s conflicts can’t be fought with yesterday’s mindset: IAF chief

indianexpress.com

New weapon systems Branch will keep specialized operators separately for weapons.

• Weapon systems operators in twin-seat/multicrew aircraft.
• Crew to pilot drones.
• Image analysts, information warfare specialists, observers for UAV systems.
• Mission commanders and operators for SAMs, CIWS and SSMs.

Damn, they didn't have it earlier.

 

[jai jaganath]

New Weapon Systems Branch for IAF with new Camo

Air Force Day: All IAF systems under one roof, Govt clears dedicated branch

Tomorrow’s conflicts can’t be fought with yesterday’s mindset: IAF chief

indianexpress.com

New weapon systems Branch will keep specialized operators separately for weapons.

• Weapon systems operators in twin-seat/multicrew aircraft.
• Crew to pilot drones.
• Image analysts, information warfare specialists, observers for UAV systems.
• Mission commanders and ooeratirsoperators for SAMs, CIWS and SSMs.

Damn, they didn't have it earlier.

Officers wear full shirts and airmen wear t shirts
Is this the convention or I have some misunderstanding

 

[shankyz]

 

[VIP]

The capex and opex of IAF doesn't allow the induction of 45 jets per year. Even if money comes magically somehow, trained manpower-both air and ground crew cannot be built overnight. This is not a video game

Kaise dhire dhire kaam ho raha hai.

 

[Whitecollar]

Is it just me or Tejas is taking far sharper turns and performing more vigorously now? The vortices generated at lateral wings now are also better than what I'd seen in airshows before. I guess they've opened Tejas's flight envelop to max.

 

[MirageBlue]

Is it just me or Tejas is taking far sharper turns and performing more vigorously now? The vortices generated at lateral wings now are also better than what I'd seen in airshows before. I guess they've opened Tejas's flight envelop to max.

It is taking sharper turns because the FCS is now fully opened up to 8G maneuvers. Even at LIMA airshow, the Tejas display was limited to 6G turns.