LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

omaebakabaka

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Very different principle to an ejection seat in many ways, some similarities but mastering that doesn’t mean you can master the other necessarily

I recommend reading a noble anger by David Hill if you’re interested in this subject. It goes into great detail about the complexities and operations of ejection seats And MB in particular. It’s an incredibly niche and expert category of system that must be 100% trustworthy
I am not discounting their specilization or years of experience based on failures and field testingwhich is the key but there is no 100%, space shuttles were supposed to be all that but yet you know what happened....on the other hand Soyuz ejection worked 100%. I think there are many other complex systems than seat ejections that we learned, its just not the highest priority. I agree ISRO may be the first one to look at the technology necessary vs DRDO most likely.
 

MonaLazy

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@Roland55

China Out, HAL offers LCA `Tejas' Mk1A and trainer variant to Argentina
1662485799684.png

LCA Tejas


State owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) during its recent visit to Argentina has offered indigenous Light Combat Aircraft `Tejas’ Mark IA and 2 seater trainers.
Sources have confirmed to Financial Express Online: “Argentina will be looking to export from India two variants of the LCA Tejas. First would be its two-seater operational conversion trainer aircraft, akin to what might be with the Indian Air Force (IAF). The second would be the export variant, the LCA Tejas Mark 1A.”
HAL in Argentina
During meetings in Buenos Aires, the executives from HAL met with the Argentinean Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Julio Guardia, on August 31, 2022. Francisco Cafiero, Argentinean Secretary of International Affairs and Daniela Castro, Secretary of Defence Production, Ministry of Defence, also held talks with the HAL delegation the same day. On September 1, HAL met with General Guillermo Pereda, Chief of General Staff, Argentine Armed Forces. A meeting followed this up with Brigadier Xavier Julian Issac, the Chief of General Staff, Argentine Air Force.
On September 2, the HAL officials also had discussions with Mirta Iriondo, the President of Fábrica Argentina de Aviones, the foremost aircraft manufacturer in that country.
What is Argentina looking for?
Argentina has been scouting globally for fighter jets to replace its aging Air Force Fleet for a while. Among the possible winners have been the Chinese JF-17, the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, the South Korean FA-50 and the Lockheed Martin’s F-16s.
In the past month, between India and Argentina there have been several rounds of visits and meetings. Financial Express Online has reported earlier that external affairs minister Dr S Jaishankar was in Argentina as part of his three nation visit to the region. Light Combat Aircraft was discussed during his meetings with his counterpart and other senior officials.
Recently, along with the Indian Ambassador to Argentina Dinesh Bhatia, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) executives met with the Argentine Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force and other key stakeholders.
Partners, not providers: India’s defence diplomacy at its best
With the Malaysian deal expected to be closed soon, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has set itself apart from others to accommodate the countries. For Malaysia, HAL is set to provide services for their Russian fleets in addition to the LCA Tejas.
For Argentina, the company is open to accommodating the demands of their Air Force. The most challenging task had been replacing all UK-origin components in the LCA Tejas. “It is primarily due to the long-standing dispute of the Falkland Islands between the two,” explained a senior diplomat.
However, it is also a practical ask because HAL cannot go ahead with the sale without a green light from its global providers, including those in the UK. Based on the information in the public domain, in the past decade, Argentina’s efforts to purchase aircraft, including the Saab Gripen from Sweden and later the FA-50 trainer/light fighter from South Korea could not materialize. this was Due to the pressure from the government of Britain.
Argentine interest in HAL has been building positively over time. Reportedly, in March 2022, Argentine Brigadier General D Xavier Julian Issac, Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force, visited India along with a pilot. They clocked over 30 minutes in the LCA Tejas trainer variant at a HAL facility and were impressed by the indigenous fighter.
“A similar exercise was conducted by the Chinese, who flew their JF-17 aircraft to Argentina, where the Argentinean Air Force spent a month with the same. In 2021, there were reports of Argentina down selecting the Chinese offering. However, later on, any such development was denied by the officials. Apparently, the Argentine response was also positive for the JF-17, but the US was able to talk them out of considering the Chinese aircraft,” said an official who wished to remain anonymous.
How LCA Tejas stacks against competition?
Reports have indicated that the LCA Tejas will cost Argentina in the ballpark of USD 42 million per aircraft. The South Korean FA-50 would be several million less. However, FA-50, which the Argentine Air Force has already, comes without missiles, adding to the costs after the fact.
Expert view on what HAL is offering to Argentina
“For export, HAL offers the LCA Tejas Mark 1A, modified Mark 1 Tejas with improvements all around. The best upgrade is the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a state-of-the-art electronic warfare suite and a new digital flight control computer,” Girish Linganna, Aerospace & Defence Analyst explains to Financial Express Online.
“Tete-a-tete even with the same range as the FA-50 Golden Eagle, Tejas outshines with its more excellent service ceiling, greater maximum take-off weight, and a higher top speed,” he says.
On F-16 Vs LCA Tejas
According to Girish Linganna, “Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, has a comparable top speed to the LCA Tejas. However, it has a 1000 KM more range and has about 5000 KG more maximum take-off weight. Interestingly, F-16 has a larger footprint and a better engine to achieve this, but the service ceiling of LCA Tejas is more remarkable by over 1000 M. F-16 has nine hard points versus the eight on the LCA Tejas.
However, the F-16 sale to Argentina has been marred by London’s predicament over the Falkland Islands issue. Washington might push for second-hand F-16s to be sold to Argentina to check Beijing’s foothold in its backyard.”
About Air Force of Argentina
Argentina severely lacks modern combat aircraft. The size of the country requires a high level of air power to secure the airspace. Still, Argentina misses the opportunity to assert itself. Diplomacy has been a significant woe in the country’s attempts at equipping itself with modern fighters. After its Mirage fighters left, it chose the Israeli Kfir Block 60s to revive its supersonic fighter capability. However, this deal fell through when the US refused to grant the export license for the engine.
India’s self-reliance journey with HAL is a boon for Argentina, as it can reclaim military might with India and HAL as a partner.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Curious about the comparison in the above article. What says this forum on the comparison of F-16 to Tejas? Would like to know what this forum thinks of the above comparison.
Even Tejas Mk2 falls slightly short of the max payload and range of F-16. F-16, J-10 and maybe Tejas Mk2 can be considered to be in same class. But Tejas Mk1A is too small for direct comparison.
 

Blademaster

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Even Tejas Mk2 falls slightly short of the max payload and range of F-16. F-16, J-10 and maybe Tejas Mk2 can be considered to be in same class. But Tejas Mk1A is too small for direct comparison.
Maybe that's why IAF was so lukewarm on the Mk1 and Mk1A. It fell short of every mainstay single engine fighter out there. Well that's totally the fault of IAF. ADA, DRDO, & HAL designed and produced a plane that matched the specifications laid out by the IAF.
 

NutCracker

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Maybe that's why IAF was so lukewarm on the Mk1 and Mk1A. It fell short of every mainstay single engine fighter out there. Well that's totally the fault of IAF. ADA, DRDO, & HAL designed and produced a plane that matched the specifications laid out by the IAF.
LCA is not for eastern front. Similar to how Mig21 wasn't.

Its better than Paki jf17 , which they operate in most numbers (140).

And better than 140 porky Mirage 3 and Mirage 5 too.
 
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skunk works

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@Roland55

China Out, HAL offers LCA `Tejas' Mk1A and trainer variant to Argentina
View attachment 170705
LCA Tejas


State owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) during its recent visit to Argentina has offered indigenous Light Combat Aircraft `Tejas’ Mark IA and 2 seater trainers.
Sources have confirmed to Financial Express Online: “Argentina will be looking to export from India two variants of the LCA Tejas. First would be its two-seater operational conversion trainer aircraft, akin to what might be with the Indian Air Force (IAF). The second would be the export variant, the LCA Tejas Mark 1A.”
HAL in Argentina
During meetings in Buenos Aires, the executives from HAL met with the Argentinean Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Julio Guardia, on August 31, 2022. Francisco Cafiero, Argentinean Secretary of International Affairs and Daniela Castro, Secretary of Defence Production, Ministry of Defence, also held talks with the HAL delegation the same day. On September 1, HAL met with General Guillermo Pereda, Chief of General Staff, Argentine Armed Forces. A meeting followed this up with Brigadier Xavier Julian Issac, the Chief of General Staff, Argentine Air Force.
On September 2, the HAL officials also had discussions with Mirta Iriondo, the President of Fábrica Argentina de Aviones, the foremost aircraft manufacturer in that country.
What is Argentina looking for?
Argentina has been scouting globally for fighter jets to replace its aging Air Force Fleet for a while. Among the possible winners have been the Chinese JF-17, the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, the South Korean FA-50 and the Lockheed Martin’s F-16s.
In the past month, between India and Argentina there have been several rounds of visits and meetings. Financial Express Online has reported earlier that external affairs minister Dr S Jaishankar was in Argentina as part of his three nation visit to the region. Light Combat Aircraft was discussed during his meetings with his counterpart and other senior officials.
Recently, along with the Indian Ambassador to Argentina Dinesh Bhatia, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) executives met with the Argentine Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force and other key stakeholders.
Partners, not providers: India’s defence diplomacy at its best
With the Malaysian deal expected to be closed soon, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has set itself apart from others to accommodate the countries. For Malaysia, HAL is set to provide services for their Russian fleets in addition to the LCA Tejas.
For Argentina, the company is open to accommodating the demands of their Air Force. The most challenging task had been replacing all UK-origin components in the LCA Tejas. “It is primarily due to the long-standing dispute of the Falkland Islands between the two,” explained a senior diplomat.
However, it is also a practical ask because HAL cannot go ahead with the sale without a green light from its global providers, including those in the UK. Based on the information in the public domain, in the past decade, Argentina’s efforts to purchase aircraft, including the Saab Gripen from Sweden and later the FA-50 trainer/light fighter from South Korea could not materialize. this was Due to the pressure from the government of Britain.
Argentine interest in HAL has been building positively over time. Reportedly, in March 2022, Argentine Brigadier General D Xavier Julian Issac, Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force, visited India along with a pilot. They clocked over 30 minutes in the LCA Tejas trainer variant at a HAL facility and were impressed by the indigenous fighter.
“A similar exercise was conducted by the Chinese, who flew their JF-17 aircraft to Argentina, where the Argentinean Air Force spent a month with the same. In 2021, there were reports of Argentina down selecting the Chinese offering. However, later on, any such development was denied by the officials. Apparently, the Argentine response was also positive for the JF-17, but the US was able to talk them out of considering the Chinese aircraft,” said an official who wished to remain anonymous.
How LCA Tejas stacks against competition?
Reports have indicated that the LCA Tejas will cost Argentina in the ballpark of USD 42 million per aircraft. The South Korean FA-50 would be several million less. However, FA-50, which the Argentine Air Force has already, comes without missiles, adding to the costs after the fact.
Expert view on what HAL is offering to Argentina
“For export, HAL offers the LCA Tejas Mark 1A, modified Mark 1 Tejas with improvements all around. The best upgrade is the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a state-of-the-art electronic warfare suite and a new digital flight control computer,” Girish Linganna, Aerospace & Defence Analyst explains to Financial Express Online.
“Tete-a-tete even with the same range as the FA-50 Golden Eagle, Tejas outshines with its more excellent service ceiling, greater maximum take-off weight, and a higher top speed,” he says.
On F-16 Vs LCA Tejas
According to Girish Linganna, “Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, has a comparable top speed to the LCA Tejas. However, it has a 1000 KM more range and has about 5000 KG more maximum take-off weight. Interestingly, F-16 has a larger footprint and a better engine to achieve this, but the service ceiling of LCA Tejas is more remarkable by over 1000 M. F-16 has nine hard points versus the eight on the LCA Tejas.
However, the F-16 sale to Argentina has been marred by London’s predicament over the Falkland Islands issue. Washington might push for second-hand F-16s to be sold to Argentina to check Beijing’s foothold in its backyard.”
About Air Force of Argentina
Argentina severely lacks modern combat aircraft. The size of the country requires a high level of air power to secure the airspace. Still, Argentina misses the opportunity to assert itself. Diplomacy has been a significant woe in the country’s attempts at equipping itself with modern fighters. After its Mirage fighters left, it chose the Israeli Kfir Block 60s to revive its supersonic fighter capability. However, this deal fell through when the US refused to grant the export license for the engine.
India’s self-reliance journey with HAL is a boon for Argentina, as it can reclaim military might with India and HAL as a partner.
We can beat the Viper on price, I am sure.
 

omaebakabaka

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LCA is not for eastern front. Similar to how Mig21 wasn't.

Its better than Paki jf17 , which they operate in most numbers (140).

And better than 140 porky Mirage 3 and Mirage 5 too.
Plus good enough for BD, Myanmar and in south to keep an eye in Indian Ocean and SL. Other than US navy, its good enough in southern ocean. With enough numbers, this one will qualify for quantity over quality and size even against F-16
 

Aditya Ballal

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Iirc for mk2 they have given up on retractable probe to save time . It will instead have a non - retractable probe just like rafale. But it will be removable for when it's not required. So a plug and play type system.
Don’t think so, as per the DDR video on MK2, the refuelling probe will be a fixed one for the initial prototype and the rest will all feature retractable one’s. Even the initial prototype will also be retrofitted with the retractable one once it’s development and integration is complete.
 

samsaptaka

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Did you know that Goodrich which makes ejections eats for Boeing warplanes copied the design from NPP Zvezda? Martin Baker may be good but my point remains is that since no other Indian fighter jet uses Martin Baker ejection seats, why go for Martin Baker seats as it introduces a different product and more complexity to the logistic chain? They could, the very least, copy the design from NPP Zvezda and make it their own as Boeing/Goodrich did.
They wanted to be safe and not give an excuse to UNAF to find fault. "The Tejas is a badly designed 3d world fighter which doesn't meet our primary requirement of being capable of ejecting the pilot to the moon"
 

Dark Sorrow

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Don’t think so, as per the DDR video on MK2, the refuelling probe will be a fixed one for the initial prototype and the rest will all feature retractable one’s. Even the initial prototype will also be retrofitted with the retractable one once it’s development and integration is complete.
Can you post the video?
 

IndianHawk

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Don’t think so, as per the DDR video on MK2, the refuelling probe will be a fixed one for the initial prototype and the rest will all feature retractable one’s. Even the initial prototype will also be retrofitted with the retractable one once it’s development and integration is complete.
I learnt it much later than that video.
Retractable probe eats lots of space in nose and includes complex mechanism.

And if IAF's most prized warrior rafale has a fixed probe mk2 can also live with it. It doesn't affect rcs that much specially when heavy weapons are involved ( precisely when you will need refueling in air). And for missions that don't require it they will simply take it out. We are anyways short of refueling tankers .

Rest we shall find out soon.
 

abingdonboy

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I learnt it much later than that video.
Retractable probe eats lots of space in nose and includes complex mechanism.

And if IAF's most prized warrior rafale has a fixed probe mk2 can also live with it. It doesn't affect rcs that much specially when heavy weapons are involved ( precisely when you will need refueling in air). And for missions that don't require it they will simply take it out. We are anyways short of refueling tankers .

Rest we shall find out soon.
It’ll have a retractable probe by production. End of story .
 

abingdonboy

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Plus good enough for BD, Myanmar and in south to keep an eye in Indian Ocean and SL. Other than US navy, its good enough in southern ocean. With enough numbers, this one will qualify for quantity over quality and size even against F-16
To make exports happen you need geopolitical heft and leverage. MEA should see their job as being salesmen of Indian products- not just defence stuff too. India gave BD a $500m line of credit to use by 2029 on Indian origin defence equipment and they are struggling to even spend this because of all the red tape involved

Chinese know how to get business done especially in these small nations. JF-17 probably has a better chance for BD/SL. It’s absurd that ALH didn’t get pushed on BD and SL
 

Super Flanker

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This is definitely one of the most "dumbest" Comparison charts till date.

According to this chart, Tejas is being offered to Malaysia at a price tag of 32 million dollars which is really hard to believe, even the Tejas which was sold to IAF was not that expensive. As far as I know, we have offered Malaysia the latest version of Tejas which is Tejas MK-1A, not Tejas MK-1. Mk-1 is an older version of Tejas. MK-1A is the newer version. When IAF had placed an order for 83 Tejas MK-1A, the per unit cost of per Aircraft was said to be 45-50 + Million dollars. No way that Tejas is that cheap and no way any of the aircrafts in this "Comparison infographic" are that cheap. Infact the truth is that they are way more expensive than depicted in this chart.

Lets take the Example of MiG-35, according to this "dumb" chart, the per unit price of a MiG-35 is 15-28 million dollars, in reality the MiG-35 cost is way higher than that. MiG-35 is a very capable plane, do you really think that an aircraft like the MiG-35 Which has improved avionics, new Phazotron Zhuk AESA which has the ability to detect multiple targets and is more resistant to electronic countermeasures then it's predecessors will cost less than 30 million dollars? In comparison to the MiG-29, the MiG-35 has higher weapons payload capacity, more powerful & fuel efficient engines, a higher fuel capacity, and & AESA radar which is both more powerful and harder to jam than the various passively scanned radars used by MiG-29 variants. There is no way in hell that you are getting something this Advanced in such a low price tag. The truth is that if these Planes were as cheap as this stupid chart depicts them to be then Malaysia would have considered a much more larger order, say like 50+.

Lets come to the cost of Tejas MK-1 (Not MK-1A). Indian Airforce bought Tejas MK-1s at a unit price of more than 45+ million dollars. Do you think that this price tag is anywhere near claimed by this retard author? Conclusion it's bogus and all also these articles saying that FA-50 will be choosen are just tabloids until they can be proven with official statements. It is like how Pakistanis were saying that Malaysia had selected JF-17 but we all know how it turned out to be fake.

Another thing that I would like to add here is that it is possible that we have done some modifications as to suit Malaysia's needs and therefore it is cheaper but I doubt that you can make Tejas any cheaper than 40 million. If we are offering Malaysia trainer version then it might be possible that this 32 million dollar is true but I find it very hard to believe that even a trainer version will be that cheap.
 
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