LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[johnj]

This is definitely one of the most "dumbest" Comparison charts till date.

According to this chart, Tejas is being offered to Malaysia at a price tag of 32 million dollars which is really hard to believe, even the Tejas which was sold to IAF was not that expensive. As far as I know, we have offered Malaysia the latest version of Tejas which is Tejas MK-1A, not Tejas MK-1. Mk-1 is an older version of Tejas. MK-1A is the newer version. When IAF had placed an order for 83 Tejas MK-1A, the per unit cost of per Aircraft was said to be 45-50 + Million dollars. No way that Tejas is that cheap and no way any of the aircrafts in this "Comparison infographic" are that cheap. Infact the truth is that they are way more expensive than depicted in this chart.

Lets take the Example of MiG-35, according to this "dumb" chart, the per unit price of a MiG-35 is 15-28 million dollars, in reality the MiG-35 cost is way higher than that. MiG-35 is a very capable plane, do you really think that an aircraft like the MiG-35 Which has improved avionics, new Phazotron Zhuk AESA which has the ability to detect multiple targets and is more resistant to electronic countermeasures then it's predecessors will cost less than 30 million dollars? In comparison to the MiG-29, the MiG-35 has higher weapons payload capacity, more powerful & fuel efficient engines, a higher fuel capacity, and & AESA radar which is both more powerful and harder to jam than the various passively scanned radars used by MiG-29 variants. There is no way in hell that you are getting something this Advanced in such a low price tag. The truth is that if these Planes were as cheap as this stupid chart depicts them to be then Malaysia would have considered a much more larger order, say like 50+.

Lets come to the cost of Tejas MK-1 (Not MK-1A). Indian Airforce bought Tejas MK-1s at a unit price of more than 45+ million dollars. Do you think that this price tag is anywhere near claimed by this retard author? Conclusion it's bogus and all also these articles saying that FA-50 will be choosen are just tabloids until they can be proven with official statements. It is like how Pakistanis were saying that Malaysia had selected JF-17 but we all know how it turned out to be fake.

Another thing that I would like to add here is that it is possible that we have done some modifications as to suit Malaysia's needs and therefore it is cheaper but I doubt that you can make Tejas any cheaper than 40 million. If we are offering Malaysia trainer version then it might be possible that this 32 million dollar is true but I find it very hard to believe that even a trainer version will be that cheap.

Consider bottom points, in the pic
1. mk1a - 65.5mil, 2. mig price- estimate.
None of the price is real, just fly away cost close to last sale, estimate.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

This is definitely one of the most "dumbest" Comparison charts till date.

According to this chart, Tejas is being offered to Malaysia at a price tag of 32 million dollars which is really hard to believe, even the Tejas which was sold to IAF was not that expensive. As far as I know, we have offered Malaysia the latest version of Tejas which is Tejas MK-1A, not Tejas MK-1. Mk-1 is an older version of Tejas. MK-1A is the newer version. When IAF had placed an order for 83 Tejas MK-1A, the per unit cost of per Aircraft was said to be 45-50 + Million dollars. No way that Tejas is that cheap and no way any of the aircrafts in this "Comparison infographic" are that cheap. Infact the truth is that they are way more expensive than depicted in this chart.

Lets take the Example of MiG-35, according to this "dumb" chart, the per unit price of a MiG-35 is 15-28 million dollars, in reality the MiG-35 cost is way higher than that. MiG-35 is a very capable plane, do you really think that an aircraft like the MiG-35 Which has improved avionics, new Phazotron Zhuk AESA which has the ability to detect multiple targets and is more resistant to electronic countermeasures then it's predecessors will cost less than 30 million dollars? In comparison to the MiG-29, the MiG-35 has higher weapons payload capacity, more powerful & fuel efficient engines, a higher fuel capacity, and & AESA radar which is both more powerful and harder to jam than the various passively scanned radars used by MiG-29 variants. There is no way in hell that you are getting something this Advanced in such a low price tag. The truth is that if these Planes were as cheap as this stupid chart depicts them to be then Malaysia would have considered a much more larger order, say like 50+.

Lets come to the cost of Tejas MK-1 (Not MK-1A). Indian Airforce bought Tejas MK-1s at a unit price of more than 45+ million dollars. Do you think that this price tag is anywhere near claimed by this retard author? Conclusion it's bogus and all also these articles saying that FA-50 will be choosen are just tabloids until they can be proven with official statements. It is like how Pakistanis were saying that Malaysia had selected JF-17 but we all know how it turned out to be fake.

Another thing that I would like to add here is that it is possible that we have done some modifications as to suit Malaysia's needs and therefore it is cheaper but I doubt that you can make Tejas any cheaper than 40 million. If we are offering Malaysia trainer version then it might be possible that this 32 million dollar is true but I find it very hard to believe that even a trainer version will be that cheap.

why is the FA-50 even considered in the same breath as the Tejas ?
Tejas was designed as a multirole fighter, the FA-50 is a glorified trainer with a low weapons load and a garbage radar that fights now and then when you insist hard enough. MiG prices always start low for gouging later on. If the Malaysians can rub two braincells together, they'd pick Tejas.

 

[Super Flanker]

Consider bottom points, in the pic
1. mk1a - 65.5mil, 2. mig price- estimate.
None of the price is real, just fly away cost close to last sale, estimate.

Consider bottom points, in the pic

Oh yes, I didn't read that at first, I just typed everything like a "MADMAN"

Spoiler

None of the price is real, just fly away cost close to last sale, estimate.

Yes, but that does not mean that the price of Tejas Mk-1 is "true", I really doubt that even Tejas MK-1 will be That cheap.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

This is definitely one of the most "dumbest" Comparison charts till date.

According to this chart, Tejas is being offered to Malaysia at a price tag of 32 million dollars which is really hard to believe, even the Tejas which was sold to IAF was not that expensive. As far as I know, we have offered Malaysia the latest version of Tejas which is Tejas MK-1A, not Tejas MK-1. Mk-1 is an older version of Tejas. MK-1A is the newer version. When IAF had placed an order for 83 Tejas MK-1A, the per unit cost of per Aircraft was said to be 45-50 + Million dollars. No way that Tejas is that cheap and no way any of the aircrafts in this "Comparison infographic" are that cheap. Infact the truth is that they are way more expensive than depicted in this chart.

Lets take the Example of MiG-35, according to this "dumb" chart, the per unit price of a MiG-35 is 15-28 million dollars, in reality the MiG-35 cost is way higher than that. MiG-35 is a very capable plane, do you really think that an aircraft like the MiG-35 Which has improved avionics, new Phazotron Zhuk AESA which has the ability to detect multiple targets and is more resistant to electronic countermeasures then it's predecessors will cost less than 30 million dollars? In comparison to the MiG-29, the MiG-35 has higher weapons payload capacity, more powerful & fuel efficient engines, a higher fuel capacity, and & AESA radar which is both more powerful and harder to jam than the various passively scanned radars used by MiG-29 variants. There is no way in hell that you are getting something this Advanced in such a low price tag. The truth is that if these Planes were as cheap as this stupid chart depicts them to be then Malaysia would have considered a much more larger order, say like 50+.

Lets come to the cost of Tejas MK-1 (Not MK-1A). Indian Airforce bought Tejas MK-1s at a unit price of more than 45+ million dollars. Do you think that this price tag is anywhere near claimed by this retard author? Conclusion it's bogus and all also these articles saying that FA-50 will be choosen are just tabloids until they can be proven with official statements. It is like how Pakistanis were saying that Malaysia had selected JF-17 but we all know how it turned out to be fake.

Another thing that I would like to add here is that it is possible that we have done some modifications as to suit Malaysia's needs and therefore it is cheaper but I doubt that you can make Tejas any cheaper than 40 million. If we are offering Malaysia trainer version then it might be possible that this 32 million dollar is true but I find it very hard to believe that even a trainer version will be that cheap.

if dumb person had to do some comparison its this. barring F18, Mig 35 and Tejas rest all are trainer jets converted into a makeshift combat jet. Comparison is illogical.

 

[Super Flanker]

why is the FA-50 even considered in the same breath as the Tejas ?
Tejas was designed as a multirole fighter, the FA-50 is a glorified trainer with a low weapons load and a garbage radar that fights now and then when you insist hard enough. MiG prices always start low for gouging later on. If the Malaysians can rub two braincells together, they'd pick Tejas.

I still don't understand, what exactly does Malaysia want under this "lead-in-trainer" tender? What are their Requirements? Do they want only a LCA trainer or do they want an LCA which is capable of combat? (Ability to fire missiles, bombs etc).

Now to be honest, we should just wait for the official confirmation from the Malaysians themselves, let's see what they select. This competition is pretty much now only between FA-50 and LCA Tejas.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

I still don't understand, what exactly does Malaysia want under this "lead-in-trainer" tender? What are their Requirements? Do they want only a LCA trainer or do they want an LCA which is capable of combat? (Ability to fire missiles, bombs etc).

Now to be honest, we should just wait for the official confirmation from the Malaysians themselves, let's see what they select. This competition is pretty much now only between FA-50 and LCA Tejas.

imagine if a country is looking for a trainer then why it will consider a F 18 or Mig 35? I dont think even Malaysians are sure as to what they want. Trainer that can do Combat or an Aircraft that can do both with a flip of a switch.

 

[johnj]

why is the FA-50 even considered in the same breath as the Tejas ?
Tejas was designed as a multirole fighter, the FA-50 is a glorified trainer with a low weapons load and a garbage radar that fights now and then when you insist hard enough. MiG prices always start low for gouging later on. If the Malaysians can rub two braincells together, they'd pick Tejas.

lol. FA-50 uses same engine & similar radar[elm 2032]. major diff b/w both - one is fighter & other trainer by design, both are highly advanced jet with 100km bvr missile/pgms/sow etc.

 

[Super Flanker]

imagine if a country is looking for a trainer then why it will consider a F 18 or Mig 35? I dont think even Malaysians are sure as to what they want. Trainer that can do Combat or an Aircraft that can do both with a flip of a switch.

Also if we take a closer look at the list of aircrafts participating in this tender, then we will see that the list includes the Chinese Hongdu L-15, According to the Malaysians, they want to buy an aircraft From China to use against China. inshort according to the Malaysians, they want to buy an aircraft from the same country whom they will use the aircraft against. I mean seriously? What nonsense is this? This tender is literally hilarious.

We should probably try our luck with Argentina, Malaysians are a funny case to me.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Also if we take a closer look at the list of aircrafts participating in this tender, then we will see that the list includes the Chinese Hongdu L-15, According to the Malaysians, they want to buy an aircraft From China to use against China. inshort according to the Malaysians, they want to buy an aircraft from the same country whom they will use the aircraft against. I mean seriously? What nonsense is this? This tender is literally hilarious.

We should probably try our luck with Argentina, Malaysians are a funny case to me.

Yes its funny. Its not making any sense to me.

 

[johnj]

Yes, but that does not mean that the price of Tejas Mk-1 is "true", I really doubt that even Tejas MK-1 will be That cheap.

Lca initial around 28 mil[1.5 decade ago]. jut fly away cost, estimate from last know purchase price, not from malaysian tender. No one sell fighter in fly away cost initially. All price are wrong. All jets cost extra, fighter jet cost 2x or 3x.

 

[johnj]

I still don't understand, what exactly does Malaysia want under this "lead-in-trainer" tender? What are their Requirements? Do they want only a LCA trainer or do they want an LCA which is capable of combat? (Ability to fire missiles, bombs etc).

Now to be honest, we should just wait for the official confirmation from the Malaysians themselves, let's see what they select. This competition is pretty much now only between FA-50 and LCA Tejas.

mig 35 as jet trainer, a big joke. Yak 130 used for that purpose. I unable to understand, what malaysia want - pure fighter [lca/mig35] or trainer with attack capability.

 

[Super Flanker]

if dumb person had to do some comparison its this. barring F18, Mig 35 and Tejas rest all are trainer jets converted into a makeshift combat jet. Comparison is illogical.

Most of the planes which are participating in this tender are of light weight category that Effectively makes this an "LCA Tender'. But I wonder how MiG-35 which is a medium weight plane is participating in this tender? To me this seems like another flaw in this tender.

 

[Super Flanker]

Yes its funny. Its not making any sense to me.

We should try our luck with countries like Argentina or Egypt, they might buy Tejas but Still let's see the final decision by the Malaysians.

 

[Super Flanker]

Lca initial around 28 mil[1.5 decade ago]. jut fly away cost, estimate from last know purchase price, not from malaysian tender. No one sell fighter in fly away cost initially. All price are wrong. All jets cost extra, fighter jet cost 2x or 3x.

mig 35 as jet trainer, a big joke. Yak 130 used for that purpose. I unable to understand, what malaysia want - pure fighter [lca/mig35] or trainer with attack capability.

To be fair, this entire competition is actually between Tejas and FA-50 as thess two have the highest chance of getting selected. Other planes in the tender like YAK-130, L-15 etc have very low chance of getting selected.

 

[Roland55]

https://www.financialexpress.com/defence/china-out-hal-offers-lca-tejas-mk1a-and-trainer-variant-to-argentina/2657125/

@Roland55

China Out, HAL offers LCA `Tejas' Mk1A and trainer variant to Argentina
View attachment 170705
LCA Tejas


State owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) during its recent visit to Argentina has offered indigenous Light Combat Aircraft `Tejas’ Mark IA and 2 seater trainers.
Sources have confirmed to Financial Express Online: “Argentina will be looking to export from India two variants of the LCA Tejas. First would be its two-seater operational conversion trainer aircraft, akin to what might be with the Indian Air Force (IAF). The second would be the export variant, the LCA Tejas Mark 1A.”
HAL in Argentina
During meetings in Buenos Aires, the executives from HAL met with the Argentinean Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Julio Guardia, on August 31, 2022. Francisco Cafiero, Argentinean Secretary of International Affairs and Daniela Castro, Secretary of Defence Production, Ministry of Defence, also held talks with the HAL delegation the same day. On September 1, HAL met with General Guillermo Pereda, Chief of General Staff, Argentine Armed Forces. A meeting followed this up with Brigadier Xavier Julian Issac, the Chief of General Staff, Argentine Air Force.
On September 2, the HAL officials also had discussions with Mirta Iriondo, the President of Fábrica Argentina de Aviones, the foremost aircraft manufacturer in that country.
What is Argentina looking for?
Argentina has been scouting globally for fighter jets to replace its aging Air Force Fleet for a while. Among the possible winners have been the Chinese JF-17, the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, the South Korean FA-50 and the Lockheed Martin’s F-16s.
In the past month, between India and Argentina there have been several rounds of visits and meetings. Financial Express Online has reported earlier that external affairs minister Dr S Jaishankar was in Argentina as part of his three nation visit to the region. Light Combat Aircraft was discussed during his meetings with his counterpart and other senior officials.
Recently, along with the Indian Ambassador to Argentina Dinesh Bhatia, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) executives met with the Argentine Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force and other key stakeholders.
Partners, not providers: India’s defence diplomacy at its best
With the Malaysian deal expected to be closed soon, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has set itself apart from others to accommodate the countries. For Malaysia, HAL is set to provide services for their Russian fleets in addition to the LCA Tejas.
For Argentina, the company is open to accommodating the demands of their Air Force. The most challenging task had been replacing all UK-origin components in the LCA Tejas. “It is primarily due to the long-standing dispute of the Falkland Islands between the two,” explained a senior diplomat.
However, it is also a practical ask because HAL cannot go ahead with the sale without a green light from its global providers, including those in the UK. Based on the information in the public domain, in the past decade, Argentina’s efforts to purchase aircraft, including the Saab Gripen from Sweden and later the FA-50 trainer/light fighter from South Korea could not materialize. this was Due to the pressure from the government of Britain.
Argentine interest in HAL has been building positively over time. Reportedly, in March 2022, Argentine Brigadier General D Xavier Julian Issac, Chief of Staff, Argentinian Air Force, visited India along with a pilot. They clocked over 30 minutes in the LCA Tejas trainer variant at a HAL facility and were impressed by the indigenous fighter.
“A similar exercise was conducted by the Chinese, who flew their JF-17 aircraft to Argentina, where the Argentinean Air Force spent a month with the same. In 2021, there were reports of Argentina down selecting the Chinese offering. However, later on, any such development was denied by the officials. Apparently, the Argentine response was also positive for the JF-17, but the US was able to talk them out of considering the Chinese aircraft,” said an official who wished to remain anonymous.
How LCA Tejas stacks against competition?
Reports have indicated that the LCA Tejas will cost Argentina in the ballpark of USD 42 million per aircraft. The South Korean FA-50 would be several million less. However, FA-50, which the Argentine Air Force has already, comes without missiles, adding to the costs after the fact.
Expert view on what HAL is offering to Argentina
“For export, HAL offers the LCA Tejas Mark 1A, modified Mark 1 Tejas with improvements all around. The best upgrade is the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a state-of-the-art electronic warfare suite and a new digital flight control computer,” Girish Linganna, Aerospace & Defence Analyst explains to Financial Express Online.
“Tete-a-tete even with the same range as the FA-50 Golden Eagle, Tejas outshines with its more excellent service ceiling, greater maximum take-off weight, and a higher top speed,” he says.
On F-16 Vs LCA Tejas
According to Girish Linganna, “Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, has a comparable top speed to the LCA Tejas. However, it has a 1000 KM more range and has about 5000 KG more maximum take-off weight. Interestingly, F-16 has a larger footprint and a better engine to achieve this, but the service ceiling of LCA Tejas is more remarkable by over 1000 M. F-16 has nine hard points versus the eight on the LCA Tejas.
However, the F-16 sale to Argentina has been marred by London’s predicament over the Falkland Islands issue. Washington might push for second-hand F-16s to be sold to Argentina to check Beijing’s foothold in its backyard.”
About Air Force of Argentina
Argentina severely lacks modern combat aircraft. The size of the country requires a high level of air power to secure the airspace. Still, Argentina misses the opportunity to assert itself. Diplomacy has been a significant woe in the country’s attempts at equipping itself with modern fighters. After its Mirage fighters left, it chose the Israeli Kfir Block 60s to revive its supersonic fighter capability. However, this deal fell through when the US refused to grant the export license for the engine.
India’s self-reliance journey with HAL is a boon for Argentina, as it can reclaim military might with India and HAL as a partner.

Im sorry for the late response, for some reason the page didnt show any alerts for me in these days...

its pretty interesting to see HAL come forward with a more than capable offer, but i must say, the current situation is a bit complex...if the funds are allocated, we could see an Argentine Air Force delegation visiting HAL to evaluate the Mk.1A, but as far as i know, its gonna take some time. like i said quite a few times...well see after 2023/24 (change in gov)

 

[AnantS]

lol. FA-50 uses same engine & similar radar[elm 2032]. major diff b/w both - one is fighter & other trainer by design, both are highly advanced jet with 100km bvr missile/pgms/sow etc.

True. Mate Can you compare Range, Payload,Avionics, Max G Load between two? Shall give prespective

 

[jai jaganath]

Im sorry for the late response, for some reason the page didnt show any alerts for me in these days...

its pretty interesting to see HAL come forward with a more than capable offer, but i must say, the current situation is a bit complex...if the funds are allocated, we could see an Argentine Air Force delegation visiting HAL to evaluate the Mk.1A, but as far as i know, its gonna take some time. like i said quite a few times...well see after 2023/24 (change in gov)

I think the interest of Argentina on tejas is bcoz that they want to make the deal competitive i.e pressuring China to reduce the price of JF-17

 

[Blademaster]

I think the interest of Argentina on tejas is bcoz that they want to make the deal competitive i.e pressuring China to reduce the price of JF-17

Nah after the recent reports of RD-33 engines (chinese made) cracking and half of the fleet being grounded, I think nobody wants to touch it with a ten foot pole.

 

[jai jaganath]

Nah after the recent reports of RD-33 engines (chinese made) cracking and half of the fleet being grounded, I think nobody wants to touch it with a ten foot pole.

They don't have much use what they need is small amt of fighters as their usage us low they don't require serviceability and all so jf-17 is good cheap option

 

[MonaLazy]

I think the interest of Argentina on tejas is bcoz that they want to make the deal competitive i.e pressuring China to reduce the price of JF-17

JF-17 has already been offered at rock bottom prices- China is even willing to take a loss to win this one! This was reported some time back. Only pressure from USA to not have Chinese influence in its backyard is preventing Argentina from going ahead. Otherwise, no problem.

https://www.financialexpress.com/defence/china-out-hal-offers-lca-tejas-mk1a-and-trainer-variant-to-argentina/2657125/

Apparently, the Argentine response was also positive for the JF-17, but the US was able to talk them out of considering the Chinese aircraft,” said an official who wished to remain anonymous.