LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Covfefe

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
4,214
Likes
28,467
Country flag
..maybe because you do not grasp the enormity of the problem. Integration with Tejas is very easy to say but then you have to see there's the 2032/MMR, 2052/AESA & Uttam/AESA- so thrice the work! From a July 13, 2021 article-



How worthy is the 2032 MMR on the IOC and FOC? @MonaLazy
 

Super Flanker

Aviation and Defence Enthusiast
New Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
5,106
Likes
12,244
Country flag
..maybe because you do not grasp the enormity of the problem. Integration with Tejas is very easy to say but then you have to see there's the 2032/MMR, 2052/AESA & Uttam/AESA- so thrice the work! From a July 13, 2021 article-




Come to think of it- integrating just Astra Mk1/2/3 means 9 rounds of integration and testing on the three radars! Same with other missiles and armaments. Isn't it better then to just stick with Uttam for all Tejas ie upgrade IOC & FOC to Mk1A asap? Will do wonders for interoperability.
I agree with what you have Just written. I just want to see Astra Be Fired from Tejas , that's all that I wish to happen. It will be so good for us because Tejas will have Very Good BVR capability and it will be Indigenous in origin. I am hoping that gradually as Time passes ,The Weopons which will be carried by Tejas will be Indigenised. I want to see Indigenous BVR capability with Astra on Tejas. I want to see Indigenous Bombs like SAAW ,and other bombs in The Aircraft be indian. It will make me feel proud. I love Tejas because it has a Special Place In my heart that's why!
.
Anyways, there is a possibility that Astra has been already Integrated with Tejas and we don't just know about it. Such things are Mostly not made public except after a Few months. Like we saw with DRDO swift Testbed in which the video of Taxing Trials of Swift was shown Recently buy the Actual reality is that the Trials had taken Place many months back but the Footage has been now Itself. Same could be the Case with Astra and our other Crucial Defence Projects. Anyways let's hope for the best.
Good day mate !
 

IndianHawk

New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,675
Country flag
Very much! Stand alone it is pretty good..

View attachment 124299

I was talking more from the PoV of the pain of adding new weapons on Tejas in future. Each new integration actually means the weapon must work with three different radars! o_O
All lca mk1 will be upgraded to mk1a in due time. So there will only be two radars to work with elta on some and uttam on most .
 

IndianHawk

New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,675
Country flag
I agree with what you have Just written. I just want to see Astra Be Fired from Tejas , that's all that I wish to happen. It will be so good for us because Tejas will have Very Good BVR capability and it will be Indigenous in origin. I am hoping that gradually as Time passes ,The Weopons which will be carried by Tejas will be Indigenised. I want to see Indigenous BVR capability with Astra on Tejas. I want to see Indigenous Bombs like SAAW ,and other bombs in The Aircraft be indian. It will make me feel proud. I love Tejas because it has a Special Place In my heart that's why!
.
Anyways, there is a possibility that Astra has been already Integrated with Tejas and we don't just know about it. Such things are Mostly not made public except after a Few months. Anyways let's hope for the best.
Astra tests on tejas could take place very soon. Taxi trails have been ongoing.
 

IndianHawk

New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,675
Country flag
For guiding Meteors, we need to share Uttam's technical data and blueprints with NATO allies. What that does is puts a risk as Global espionage is a big reality. Better to make and integrate Astra MK3 instead and keep Uttam's tech a secret. We already have 36 Rafales(more in future) for firing Meteors.
Not really . Missiles are integrated with dedicated interface . We have previously integrated russian missiles with French jets and Israeli missiles too.
 

Super Flanker

Aviation and Defence Enthusiast
New Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
5,106
Likes
12,244
Country flag
Astra tests on tejas could take place very soon. Taxi trails have been ongoing.
Hopefully what you say is true. Hopefully we see a Test of Astra From Tejas Aircraft. I guess by now must have been Integrated because in around July of 2021 ,I heard some articles mentioning that Astra Mk1 Integration with Tejas is nearing completion so I am Guessing that after many months passed after That News, Astra Mk1 is already Integrated with Tejas Aircraft.
 

Covfefe

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
4,214
Likes
28,467
Country flag
Very much! Stand alone it is pretty good..

View attachment 124299

I was talking more from the PoV of the pain of adding new weapons on Tejas in future. Each new integration actually means the weapon must work with three different radars! o_O
A2A any idea? Because their primary role is interception and CAPs
 

IndianHawk

New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,675
Country flag
A2A any idea? Because their primary role is interception and CAPs
Now the new quartz nose cone supplied by Cobham replaces an indigenous one and is expected to help the Mk-I's multi-mode radar (MMR) (which has an indigenous antenna and scanner but an Elta EL/M-2032 processing back end) achieve 60 per cent more range than with the latter. The indigenous nose cone has of course already been fully qualified for all modes of the MMR but the current loss through this composite part limits the MMR's detection range to around 50 kms for a fighter sized target and this is expected to increase to more than 80 kms with the new quartz nose cone.

This is old data. Remember this is still just speculative range . In actuality it should be able to detect fighter size target in access of 100+ km.
 

Spitfire9

New Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
1,197
Likes
2,845
Country flag
Wouldn't it have been simpler to put ELTA 2032 in Mk1A until UTTAM turned up then later refit the ELTA 2032-equipped aircraft?
 

Covfefe

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
4,214
Likes
28,467
Country flag
Wouldn't it have been simpler to put ELTA 2032 in Mk1A until UTTAM turned up then later refit the ELTA 2032-equipped aircraft?
IAF's aspersions over the linkage of timely delivery of Uttam to Mk1A. They want to use that fighter for frontline A2A roles, hence the dissociation from another project risk maybe
 

MonaLazy

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Messages
1,321
Likes
7,898
Wouldn't it have been simpler to put ELTA 2032 in Mk1A until UTTAM turned up then later refit the ELTA 2032-equipped aircraft?
The Mk-1A variant will come with digital radar warning receivers, external self-protection jammer pods, AESA radar, advanced beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles and significantly improved maintainability.

This was a halfway solution negotiated by erstwhile Defence Minister Late Shri Manohar Parrikar between IAF & HAL/DRDO.. While the IAF was keen on moving up to a bigger fighter after IOC/FOC production run (essentially relegating MK1 to a technology demonstrator) with a 1-metre plug inserted into Mk1 fuselage, F414 engine, AESAR and EW. As a side note, the requirements from 30 years ago called for a mig-21 sized fighter (& strictly no longer) to be able to use the hardened aircraft shelters created on border hugging airforce bases.

Mk1A was aimed to make the best of Mk1 airframe- a capable fighter at a low cost, with imported components if needed. Since AESAR was non-negotiable by IAF, there is no chance the MMR would have made its way into Mk1A. In fact, the original plan was for all of Mk1A to be 2052/AESAR but Uttam started to show incredible promise- hence got a lateral entry into the program.
 

Tridev123

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
898
Likes
3,160
Country flag
A topic which certainly worries me about India and also our defense industry.

We don't even produce passive components like resistors, capacitors and inductors for use in commercial and defense applications. Japanese and Koreans dominate this sector. Chinese haven't been successful at beating them. In PCB's Chinese dominate it. I am not sure where we are in this area. There are certain PCB makers in India, whether they are fully self reliant is something I could not ascertain. And I don't have to tell about chips. We don't even manufacture small Micro chips.

Our electronics and semiconductor sector alone requires 1 lakh crore infusion every year until 2040 if we have to become self reliant. We have the talent who are unfortunately working for big American companies who in turn sell the tech developed by Indians to us at marked up price. AMD, Qualcomm, Intel, Texas Instruments, Analog devices derive lot of R & D from India. AMD and Qualcomm has more open positions to fill in India next only to USA. We need a dedicated city like Shenzhen for hardware. PLI schemes are not going to cut it. It is unfortunate we are not thinking of building an entire city just for this sectors alone given the importance it has to national security. We need to get at least a mature node 14nm fab going to make FPGA's, Microcontrollers and specialized chips in Embedded applications. With our volatile democracy I highly doubt it will happen anytime soon.
Good that you have put the spotlight on the deficiency.
Even now as far as electronic components go, we import quite a lot.
God forbid if tomorrow the US and the Western block decides to embargo India we would be in hot waters. The only readily available option is Russia. But Russia is probably a half or one full generation behind the West in high tech electronics.

Huawei was brought to its knees by the US led embargo on components supply.
China is unfortunately ahead of India in electronics at present but were very susceptible to pressure. It needed talks between the heads of state to persuade the US to relax the embargo.

It is not an easy task to achieve full self sufficiency in the entire range of electronic components. But I hope that the Government at least has an action plan to guide us.

One sad fact is that many indigenous weapons rely to an significant extent on imported components. But its OK. Because we don't have an alternative at present and most other countries are in a similar position. But it is an weakness which should be remedied if we want to escape any future blackmail. Also there are theories that some countries incorporate kill switches in these components. Probably not true.

The bitter truth is that the West seems to have almost an monopoly on many areas of high technology. Without Western MNC's cooperation establishing an Semiconductor FAB in India will be an uphill task.

Unless true high quality indigenous R & D really takes off in India and our Universities and Colleges become international level centres of excellence. Even then it may take a couple of decades to match the output of the West.

Nothing is impossible and probably we may surprise the world sooner than later.
 

Concard

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
1,282
Likes
9,726
Country flag
Good that you have put the spotlight on the deficiency.
Even now as far as electronic components go, we import quite a lot.
God forbid if tomorrow the US and the Western block decides to embargo India we would be in hot waters. The only readily available option is Russia. But Russia is probably a half or one full generation behind the West in high tech electronics.

Huawei was brought to its knees by the US led embargo on components supply.
China is unfortunately ahead of India in electronics at present but were very susceptible to pressure. It needed talks between the heads of state to persuade the US to relax the embargo.

It is not an easy task to achieve full self sufficiency in the entire range of electronic components. But I hope that the Government at least has an action plan to guide us.

One sad fact is that many indigenous weapons rely to an significant extent on imported components. But its OK. Because we don't have an alternative at present and most other countries are in a similar position. But it is an weakness which should be remedied if we want to escape any future blackmail. Also there are theories that some countries incorporate kill switches in these components. Probably not true.

The bitter truth is that the West seems to have almost an monopoly on many areas of high technology. Without Western MNC's cooperation establishing an Semiconductor FAB in India will be an uphill task.

Unless true high quality indigenous R & D really takes off in India and our Universities and Colleges become international level centres of excellence. Even then it may take a couple of decades to match the output of the West.

Nothing is impossible and probably we may surprise the world sooner than later.
China is a threat to the West. Deng Xiaoping said to hide your strength and bide your time. However the lunatic moron Xi Jinping has undone all of that previous hard work of Chinese rulers. Now USA and EU are slowly coming to terms with China. They will fight tooth and nail to make sure they won't have their way like before.

What India has to do is get rid of Leftist scum in our country who have kept this country poor for 70 years. And then invest massively in infrastructure and Universities of excellence. Until we reach per capita income of $40,000 we should not give an hint of world domination or whatever the heck it is. What the Western media says is irrelevant. Just make sure you get what you want from the West in areas of technology and geopolitical support. This is hard to do with Democracy. We at least need a single party government like BJP at the center for 30 years. There can be state elections so that people know we aren't authoritative dictatorship where their voice doesn't count. Once in a while the steam and frustration is let off from the people. But we should abolish Central elections until 30 years and fully focus on our economy while simultaneously upgrading our military. I am no fan of BJP but they are the only one who can take decisive actions on economy and national security. A family run party will run India to the ground like what Congis did to India.

If we want faster development this is the only route. The present democratic set up is a boon for Anti-nationals to put obstacles in the path of development in every step of the way. What we need is a quasi dictatorship without any limits to criticism of the government. Just give them a free hand for 30 years. Let there be a set of goals to be fulfilled every 5 years. Target modest GDP growth of 8% with 2% inflation for 30 years. After 30 years you will see a different India.
 

pipebomb

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
567
Likes
1,176
Country flag
No, There is a change in Aerodynamic and drag reduction by 6%. This has improved its top speed by 2% and Transsonic acceleration by 20%. STR will also improve so as AOA. With light weight, it can carry more weapons.
Could you share your source on this.
 

pipebomb

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
567
Likes
1,176
Country flag
Read the section titled "The initial road to the Mk2"

Read the section titled "The initial road to the Mk2"

Are you sure about this because It says nothing about any aerodynamic improvements on mk1a.
 

Articles

Top