LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

tsunami

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It's 150km+ mate for a target of 2m2, that guy regularly messes up data, why such needs to be repeated everytime someone starts vomiting on twitter?

View attachment 124026

Radars of MWF, Super Sukhoi, which has been confirmed that Sukhoi and Fulcrum will sport Uttam aesa will be more powerful with higher range.

Please don't repeat the same nonsense again and again, do a google search before getting carried away,

Amit made a vide on it recently, go through it if you want more details (It's in inthi).

Also, for uttam aesa radar we have dedicated thread, use that not this one.
Sorry bro... but my question was more of a answer in itself for people getting confused. What I meant to say is 200Km range of 2052 and 100km range of Uttam are against different sized targets, so comparing two without getting full picture is useless.
 

cannonfodder

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Can you mix and match some AC in squadron with different AESA radars. I mean if keep few ELTA and majority with Uttam in squadron; it wont reduce capability that much in that case and save top dollars.

Between I think Uttam should not be that behind ELTA.
 

MirageBlue

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If we are planning to deploy the Meteor on Tejas and other fighters with Uttam, we need the detection range to be in excess of 150km.

No?
And here i am talking about an object with rcs of 5m2.
Meteor won't be used on Tejas Mk2 or Mk1A. MBDA refused to share the source code to allow integration of the Meteor with the Elta 2052 earlier and for the Indian radar, they wanted India to share quite a bit of data related to the radar itself. As things stand, once the SFDR based Astra Mk3 will be ready, it will be integrated on the Tejas Mk1A and Mk2.
 

IndianHawk

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Meteor won't be used on Tejas Mk2 or Mk1A. MBDA refused to share the source code to allow integration of the Meteor with the Elta 2052 earlier and for the Indian radar, they wanted India to share quite a bit of data related to the radar itself. As things stand, once the SFDR based Astra Mk3 will be ready, it will be integrated on the Tejas Mk1A and Mk2.
French objection was regarding Israeli radar. They are open to offer meteor for indian aesa. Anyway by that time sfdr will be here .

It's 150km+ mate for a target of 2m2, that guy regularly messes up data, why such needs to be repeated everytime someone starts vomiting on twitter?

View attachment 124026

Radars of MWF, Super Sukhoi, which has been confirmed that Sukhoi and Fulcrum will sport Uttam aesa will be more powerful with higher range.

Please don't repeat the same nonsense again and again, do a google search before getting carried away,

Amit made a vide on it recently, go through it if you want more details (It's in inthi).

Also, for uttam aesa radar we have dedicated thread, use that not this one.
Also regarding meteor range . NEZ of meteor is about 100km . This is where it is most likely to be fired against fighter jets. Rest of range is useful against tankers/ awacs etc.

So lca can exploit most of meteor advantage.
 

IndianHawk

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Can you mix and match some AC in squadron with different AESA radars. I mean if keep few ELTA and majority with Uttam in squadron; it wont reduce capability that much in that case and save top dollars.

Between I think Uttam should not be that behind ELTA.
16 mk1a will be with elta radar rest will get uttam. Uttam is a step ahead of elta offered to india. ( Israel's own elta may be more polished).
 

arkos

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16 mk1a will be with elta radar rest will get uttam. Uttam is a step ahead of elta offered to india. ( Israel's own elta may be more polished).
What's the source for this ? What will they do with rest of radars ?
 

IndianHawk

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What's the source for this ? What will they do with rest of radars ?
This from HT article.

The first 16 Tejas MK 1A aircraft will be fitted with Israeli ELM 2052 AESA radars and the remaining will be fitted with the indigenous Uttam AESA radar, HT has learnt. “The radar has already been tested on two Tejas fighters as well as Hawker Siddeley 800 executive jet for over 250 hours. The radar will be finally demonstrated in a flight this month with the force multiplier ready for production. Only the US, the EU, Israel, and China have AESA radar capability,” Seshagiri said.


What other radars??
 

indiatester

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I wouldn't Think Like That. Yes Tejas Mk1a is superior to JF 17 block 3 but Saying That JF 17 BLOCK 3 is nowhere near Tejas mk1a is foolish in my opinion to say the least. JF 17 block 3 is a pretty decent Aircraft in my opinion.
I find this thought process odd amongst our elite.
We are proud that our Mig21 was able to cap an F-16 but try to ignore that a supposedly inferior aircraft can hit ours.
Someone said Quantity has a quality all its own. That should never be ignored. The force we employ should be a mix of both quality and quantity after critical analysis.
 
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Spitfire9

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FA 50 is the most matured and established platform out of all the competiti. It shares most of the weaponry with FA-18s that are already in service with Malaysia. So it will be the easiest to integrate. Its most likely MRO facilites for FA 50 can be operated by Malaysians themselves which is big positive since Mig 29s and Hawks of Malaysian airforce suffer heavily due to lack of service. Also KAI is rhe only one that can deliver aircrafts from 2024-25. All in all you get a matured and reliable aircraft. M346 has similar positives with only later delivery time.

Mig 35s are unlikely because of CAASTA and MH-18 shootdown. So its a big political risk. Tejas Mk1A as of now is on paper and its important components and armament comes from Israel which Malaysia doesn't even recognize so politically its unlikely to go ahead. Add to that first fully certified Mk1A will only fly in 2025 and even if HAL offers to replace Israeli components with French or American ones testing and certification for such MK1As won't be completed till 2027 atleast. Also HAL will have to set up MRO facilities in Malaysia which will be time consuming and given HALs horrible record with it, Ecuadorian Dhruv saga, Tejas is just not a reliable bet.
I read with interest your reply. Yes, there seems to be a number of factors weighing against Tejas. I was optimistic that Tejas will get the deal but I am not any more.
 

Whitecollar

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In real world uttam can not only guide astra / mk1/ mk2 / Derby ER. But it can also guide meteor successfully too. No one will disclose true range but published ranges are very very conservative.

Performance equivalent to Rafale aesa could be realised in MWF sized aesa itself.
For guiding Meteors, we need to share Uttam's technical data and blueprints with NATO allies. What that does is puts a risk as Global espionage is a big reality. Better to make and integrate Astra MK3 instead and keep Uttam's tech a secret. We already have 36 Rafales(more in future) for firing Meteors.
 

Spitfire9

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For guiding Meteors, we need to share Uttam's technical data and blueprints with NATO allies. What that does is puts a risk as Global espionage is a big reality. Better to make and integrate Astra MK3 instead and keep Uttam's tech a secret. We already have 36 Rafales(more in future) for firing Meteors.
OK, Meteor use is available through Rafale. By the accounts I have read, this missile has the best NEZ by a long chalk of any AA missile. Can Astra Mk3 come close and how many years for it to be developed and integrated with UTTAM?
 

MiG-29SMT

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Tejas Mk1a is a good Fighter Aircraft and it will be enough to Handle Pakistan Airforce. To be honest I agree with you that atleast 150 MK1a should be added in the Inventory of the Indian Airforce in order to Fight a 2 front war. Maybe minimum of 120-130 will be enough. And I guess The Rest of The Requirements would be Fullfilled with Tejas Mk2. Tejas mk1a should be Inducted in numbers of atleast 120-130 at maximum in my personal opinion.
View attachment 123835
this is really nice fighter, looks like a Mirage 2000 with Hornet pedigree
 

Super Flanker

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this is really nice fighter, looks like a Mirage 2000 with Hornet pedigree
Thanks a lot man. If I am not wrong. Tejas was inspired from The Mirage 2000 to some extent but it was mostly an Indigenous design to say the least. It is very Similar to the Mirage 2000 in many ways. Some of the Data of Mirage was used in it if I am not wrong though.
 

Super Flanker

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I like it is is simple, light and beautiful, I hope we could buy some in Latin America, it would be ideal to most air forces there.
It will be good for countrie who cannot afford very expensive Aircrafts and Don't have intentions to operate high end Aircrafts like F-35, F-15 , F-16 and so and so. For example countries like Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia etc are such countries.
Sure it's a bit expensive to be honest buts it's a very Aircraft. Probably the Best Light Combat Aircraft in the World or in the Top 5 best light combat Aircraft in the world. It's really good for it's category.
20211208_055049.jpg
 

Super Flanker

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For guiding Meteors, we need to share Uttam's technical data and blueprints with NATO allies. What that does is puts a risk as Global espionage is a big reality. Better to make and integrate Astra MK3 instead and keep Uttam's tech a secret. We already have 36 Rafales(more in future) for firing Meteors.
Better wait for UTTAM Radar and Astra Mk3 to come. We already have Rafale which can fire it. 36 rafale is enough with appropriate stock of Meteor Missiles.
There is no way we can Risk Sharing Technical Data and Blueprints and Other info about UTTAM Radar with NATO Countries and allies.
In the Future if these countries turn Against us(in an Hypothetical scenario) They might have Advantage over us in Many Scenarios.
Also if we share this type of info With NATO Countries and allies, than i fear it might go to Turkey and Turkey inturn will transfer the Info to Our Enemies like Pakistan and China. Can't risk it.
Better wait for UTTAM and Astra Mk3 to come and stay on The Safe side to say the least in my opinion.
 

Whitecollar

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OK, Meteor use is available through Rafale. By the accounts I have read, this missile has the best NEZ by a long chalk of any AA missile. Can Astra Mk3 come close and how many years for it to be developed and integrated with UTTAM?
We are already developing a dual pulse Astra MK2 after gathering sll the learnings from our successful MK1. Most probably MK2's testing should be done in 2022. So by the time Uttam gets operational on MK1A(2025-6 onwards), we shall hear about SFDR MK3's entering trials onboard Sukhoi. Also we have Meteors with us now. It's not like our scientists are not gonna find it hard to open that up and study the detail design of insides, seeker head, chambers, fuel composition, etc

I'll be fully convinced and contempted if Astra MK2 gets cleared for usage with Tejas MK1A. Don't need anything else.
 

Super Flanker

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We are already developing a dual pulse Astra MK2 after gathering sll the learnings from our successful MK1. Most probably MK2's testing should be done in 2022. So by the time Uttam gets operational on MK1A(2025-6 onwards), we shall hear about SFDR MK3's entering trials onboard Sukhoi. Also we have Meteors with us now. It's not like our scientists are not gonna find it hard to open that up and study the detail design of insides, seeker head, chambers, fuel composition, etc

I'll be fully convinced and contempted if Astra MK2 gets cleared for usage with Tejas MK1A. Don't need anything else.
Yes that's what I too would like to see.
I would like to see a Missile like Astra Mk2 be Integrated and tested and Put into Service with our Upcoming Tejas Mk1a.
But right now first we now need to see Astra Mk-1 in service with our Current Tejas mk1. Than we can think about Astra Mk-1 ,let's hope That happens soon.
"Why?" you may which is because Till date I have not heard even about the Test firing of Astra Missile from Tejas Which is a necessity because First we need to Test fire Astra because till date I am only hearing news like "Tejas mk1 will be Integrated with Astra very soon" or "Integration of Astra with tejas in Very advanced stages " and not firing of Astra from Tejas.
Let that happen and than we can think of Astra Mk2 in Tejas,Thinking about Integration of Astra Mk2 in Tejas is foolish when not even the basic Variant of Astra , which is Astra Mk1 has been test-fired till date from any Tejas Aircraft! hope you got what I am trying to Say.
 
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MonaLazy

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Till date I have not heard even about the Test firing of Astra Missile from Tejas
..maybe because you do not grasp the enormity of the problem. Integration with Tejas is very easy to say but then you have to see there's the 2032/MMR, 2052/AESA & Uttam/AESA- so thrice the work! From a July 13, 2021 article-

Indian state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) had confirmed in the past that Indigenous Astra Mk1 beyond visual range air to air missile integration work with a Limited Series Production (LSP) Tejas Mk1 is presently being carried out, Industrial sources, do confirm that captive flight trials of the missile might happen in next few weeks that includes 4-5 rounds of test-firing that has been planned with the present ELTA-LRDE 2032/MMR Fire control Radar (FCR) soon after that.

All 36+18 (Trainers)in Tejas Mk1 configurations will get Astra Mk1 BVR that are equipped with the ELTA-LRDE 2032/MMR Fire control Radar (FCR), and by 2023 it will also be integrated with the ELTA-2052 AESA Fire control Radar (FCR) that has been planned for the first lot of 20 units of the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet. Indigenous UTTAM AESA FCR that will be equipped on remaining 53 Tejas Mk1A fighter jets will also get a host of Indian-made weapons that includes Astra Mk1 and Astra Mk2 BVR when it enters production in 2025.

Come to think of it- integrating just Astra Mk1/2/3 means 9 rounds of integration and testing on the three radars! Same with other missiles and armaments. Isn't it better then to just stick with Uttam for all Tejas ie upgrade IOC & FOC to Mk1A asap? Will do wonders for interoperability.
 

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