LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

THESIS THORON

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Devices tend to use 2 or more process technologies in same die depending on what is to be built. Memories tend to have smaller process node as they tend to dense (more transistors). For Analog or RF domain tend to different process technology.

14 nm process will be waste of money. Even if someone sells us this technology what will be do with it. What will you make with it.

You just don't move to a smaller process node just because it sounds fancy. You move to a smaller node because your semiconductor device needs it. We are currently not making any device where the MOS transistor layout is dense enough to warrant such smaller bleeding edge process node, which will bring problems of its own.
YEAH but, as we go for smaller transistor the efficiency also increases and power req also decreases.

and if we get around 10nm process then it will also last for long time.
 

IndianHawk

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Are we comparing aerodynamics or the entire system.
Block 3 will have KLJ-7A Active electronically scanned array radar, will use more composites, will have better ECM, ECCM compared to previous version and an an enhanced electronic warfare management system as per their sources.

With Tejas M1A we shall have Uttam AESA and DRDO/DARE Unified EW suite.


Lets see how things play out once both aircraft are in serial production.

We should be objective in comparison and have no prejudice.
It is sum of individual components which delivers overall system performance.

If your components are inferior you are most likey to derive sub par performance in real world conditions.
In comparison to mk1a
Jf17 bk3 has poor airframe design .
Less engine thrust. Less advanced engine control wise. More maintenance prone engine affecting reliability and availability.

Less evolved aesa with air cooled tech which means lower output and / or fewer T/R modules . Less evolved ew suite evident by pakistans failed search for European alternative . Also failure of chinese awacs during balakot episode. ( Which have similar ew components).

Inferior weapons package only chinese missiles , range again limited by air cooled aesa.

Mk1a is objectively much much better system overall.
 

Concard

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Chinese or Indian passive components are equally good. They just don't have enough market reach and are undocumented but they are highly economical. They tend to lack popularity.

Because they are economical, they provide more options (even for small quantity) and most important their quality of work is much better than Indian counterparts.

Modi is trying to get fabs established in India. We already have design houses that provide IPs what we lack is fabs and dedicated semiconductor manufacturers. Our research institute do have semiconductor know-how yet we are not able to establish our-self in semiconductor domain.
Their is a big difference in having know-how and able to commercially establish our-self.

Don't get blind-sided by patriotism. The only reason American companies have so-called R&D center in India because it is economical and not because they are mission critical for their success.
All labor intensive jobs are transferred to India like validation (design/layout), software and driver development, etc. Very minor adjustment are done in India to an established deign. You many have contacts in that industry but I work in same industry.

From the above statement I can assume you are not from semiconductor or electronics domain.
Most generally micro-controllers and ASIC (not refereed as specialized chips) use 40 nm to 65 nm process as this process is are matured enough to ensure reliability, is economical (commercial viable) and stable.
Nowadays ASICs are moving towards 32 nm for general availability but this will also take time.

Devices tend to use 2 or more process technologies in same die depending on what is to be built. Memories tend to have smaller process node as they tend to dense (more transistors). For Analog or RF domain tend to different process technology.

14 nm process will be waste of money. Even if someone sells us this technology what will be do with it. What will you make with it.

You just don't move to a smaller process node just because it sounds fancy. You move to a smaller node because your semiconductor device needs it. We are currently not making any device where the MOS transistor layout is dense enough to warrant such smaller bleeding edge process node, which will bring problems of its own.

The reason modern CPUs use small process node because they are extremely dense (Ryzen has up-to 32 MB of cache which requires a lot of registers and decapitate a lot of heat), their instruction set is complex and provide a lot of interfaces.. Same goes for FPGA. Unless you have extremely dense their is no need for such bleed edge process nodes. 40 nm process node is also good enough to begin with.
I am not blinded by patriotism. I am saying what I heard from my contacts who are working for Top fabless companies. As I said their R & D in India is crucial not critical. Big difference in the wording there.

As for the process node, I nowhere said FPGA's and Microcontrollers are made on 14nm. Lot of chips which are not used in Smart phones, PC's and serves are still very much made on 45nm and 65nm. The reason I am advocating for 14nm is that once we get familiar with this process node, we can design our own CPU's for use in applications which are required within our own country. ASML is already making more advanced EUV machine which will be released in 2023. What we need is our Scientists and Engineers to understand what is necessary to make our chips. So let GoI splurge money to buy those machines for 45nm, 65nm and 14nm. We can build a fab which costs only $1 billion like Germany did recently. We need to start somewhere. If that means if we can afford 65nm plant for now, so be it.
 

Super Flanker

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When can we expect to see 1st tejas mk1a ?
I guess the First Prototype of the MK1A will make its first flight in 2022 and The first Tejas Mk1a Aircraft will be Delivered to the Indian airforce in 2024-25(that's what i am Assuming here)
 

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View attachment 124894
Yes mate. You are right, it's an R-73 Missile on the Left Wing of the Tejas.
In the photo The R-73 Missile is present on one of the Pylons of the left Wing of the Aircraft. This doesn't seem to be an Operational R-73 Missile to me though.
It looks to be a training Variant of the R-73 Missile from my Personal Perspective though.
View attachment 124895
(Picture of an R-73 for Better Referance)
Not a dummy,
Training variants have a yellow band
It is a live round imo
 

Super Flanker

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'R-73 selected', what's your point?
To be frank I don't what he meant by saying 'R-73 selected' but god I know this line.
These were the Last words of Abhinandan Varthaman Before he Fired an R-73 Missile at an F-16 and Shot It down,before he himself was shot down by another F-16.
Hopefully next time, Abhinandan or any other pilot will be Given Tejas to use and Shoot down Pakistani Airforce Planes. I just want to See Tejas in Combat. That's all I want to see with Regards to LCA Tejas from my personal Perspective πŸ™‚
 

Super Flanker

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Buying F-16 comes with American blessing something Tejas can't offer, countries like Bangladesh will probably go for F-16 over Tejas as they are dependent on US for exports. I like to see how JF-17 plays out. It will be PRC vs US.
To be be honest and Frankly speaking, It's Makes much more sense for countries like Bangladesh, Indonesia, Phillipines to go or Opt For F-16 over LCA Tejas because F-16 is a better, and more mature Platform as compared to Tejas, and it's a proven Platform too.
Tejas is good but F-16 is better in my opinion. Tejas still has some more Time to get to that level.
And If there was any competition between the F-16 and Tejas on any tender of any Respective country than I will bet on the F-16 winning (most likely Scenario) ,don't have much hope for Tejas There.
 

Super Flanker

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Wow.
That's a beautiful model I must say! Hoping that it will become a Reality sooner or Later! That's all I am hoping for from my Personal Perspective.
Anyways the Model is showing a Tejas which is carrying 2Γ— Brahmos NG(Next Generation) and 2 R-73 Missiles with it.
Anyways tejas will be mostly used for Point Defence so If there is ever a skirmish like 27th February. We could send Tejas with Upcoming Astra Missiles and use them from Inside the Border.
 

Super Flanker

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Threads related to R&D and Acquisitions are damn frustrating nowadays
Saala kuch hota kyu nhi?
Kab ayenge baaki 83
'Kab ayenge Baaki 83?' I believe you are talking about the delivery of Tejas Mk1a Aircraft of which indian Airforce had given an Order of 83 units. Well with regards to that.
I believe the First Aircraft will be Delivered in the Year 2024-25 and the Last Tejas mk1a Aircraft will be Delivered latest by 2029-2030.
Even I am not sure about this Delivery date because it might get delayed to be honest.
 

Super Flanker

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Apparantly the Egyptians want to retire their Chinese K8 trainer aircrafts, which are 100-120 in number. They may be looking to purchase Tejas LIFT. That would match the 100 numbers that is being mentioned by some sites.
Oh wow! That Definitely appears to be a sweet deal in my opinion (that is if Tejas gets the Contract for the Deal from Egypt)
Hopefully we will get Export orders of Tejas in the near future from some Countries but at the Same time we need to Fulfill the Requirements of own airforce first.
 

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'Kab ayenge Baaki 83?' I believe you are talking about the delivery of Tejas Mk1a Aircraft of which indian Airforce had given an Order of 83 units. Well with regards to that.
I believe the First Aircraft will be Delivered in the Year 2024-25 and the Last Tejas mk1a Aircraft will be Delivered latest by 2029-2030.
Even I am not sure about this Delivery date because it might get delayed to be honest.
Honestly speaking You are quoting an 8 month old post though in my opinion
This is just my opinion personally speaking
 

Super Flanker

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Honestly speaking You are quoting an 8 month old post though in my opinion
This is just my opinion personally speaking
Okay buddy. Won't try and Quote old posts from now onwards. Will try and Reframe from it.
Regardless of that, I highly Doubt that HAL will be able to deliver all 83 Tejas mk1a Aircraft before the Year 2029. I don't see any hopes of it to be honest.
 

Tactical Doge

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Okay buddy. Won't try and Quote old posts from now onwards. Will try and Reframe from it.
Regardless of that, I highly Doubt that HAL will be able to deliver all 83 Tejas mk1a Aircraft before the Year 2029. I don't see any hopes of it to be honest.
They can very well finish within 2028-29 if they ramp up to 20 per annum
 

Super Flanker

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They can very well finish within 2028-29 if they ramp up to 20 per annum
@Hariharan_kalarikkal
Yes that's possible if they will ramp up the Production speed to that much (the Quantity you suggested)
Moreover indian Airforce is not really worried about the Delivery Date but more worried with regards to the per unit Cost of the Aircraft. If Indian airforce asks HAL to ramp up the Production than in doing so the Cost of per unit Aircraft will increase and it will become more expensive.
02-tejas-fighters-SP-12-and-SP-14.jpg
 

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