LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Griepen E is the most expensive aircraft because it’s a single engine light aircraft but still costs 100-130 million dollars per unit cost of maintenance and missiles are extras

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Bhai main bhi Bhumihar hun or Bihari hun Nepal ka flag shayad location ki wazah se hai ID banate time Nepal mein tha

Tumko mai kai baar bol chuka hun ki bina kuchh jaane ul julul mat post kiya karo. Tum maante kyo nahi.

 

[noobmaster69]

Griepen E is the most expensive aircraft because it’s a single engine light aircraft but still costs 100-130 million dollars per unit cost of maintenance and missiles are extras

What?! Gripen has two main USPs: Low cost and ease of maintainance

 

[Akula]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra in a podcast said that " Tejas mk1A is inferior to Jf-17 block 1". He himself is contradicting his own points that, Chinese jets are way behind Western and Russian counterparts.

 

[VIP]

I think you got me confused with the gripen lobby.

ARVION said:
MWF is already at the edge of the current technology's, dont worry we have already catch up with them's .

no smoking said:
Excuse me, where is MWF? Oh, it is still on the paper, we haven't seen a single prototype yet. On the other hand, Gripen E has been in the test flying since 2017.

ARVION said:
Sorry sir but on this , you are wrong it is in a advance way where many parts and critical technology are being tested , you may be Wright's about the protopying as we still are few years away from prototyping the MWF's .

IndianHawk said:
He is a Chinese troll.


This is how it went. I was only referring to taking factual consideration of matters even if it comes from Chinese posters here like @no smoking. And he is not advocating Gripen either. Only contesting our claims of grandiose. That is fine as long as they keep us on our toes and help us be better. I would prefer Tejas anyday over Gripen or Rafale.

My post was not meant to you specifically, it was a generalized post for the people who are advocating Gripen here. I mean, why would we need Gripen, we have already purchased Rafale, we can order more rafale if needed. If we need numbers, we must go for indigenous planes only, which are cheaper, can be modified on our will. A flock of 4 tejas 1 rafale is enough to take down enemy flock if tejas is inferior in form of avionics (which I don't think so), rafale can do the job of avionics and tejas would do the rest. That's how things work, we don't need 500 rafale for doing same, instead 72 rafales and rest are tejas will do the work.

 

[IndianHawk]

What?! Gripen has two main USPs: Low cost and ease of maintainance

Brazil bought 36 gripen E for 4.68 billion. So it's atleast 130 million per jet with basic infra .

 

[IndianHawk]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra in a podcast said that " Tejas mk1A is inferior to Jf-17 block 1". He himself is contradicting his own points that, Chinese jets are way behind Western and Russian counterparts.

Lol. Abhijit is lobbying hard for a alliance with USA. So of course puting down Indian jets and promoting USA ones is one method.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

What?! Gripen has two main USPs: Low cost and ease of maintainance

This narrative is pushed by import lobby Griepen is easy to maintain and advanced jet but a very expensive aircraft in it’s category

 

[IndianHawk]

My post was not meant to you specifically, it was a generalized post for the people who are advocating Gripen here. I mean, why would we need Gripen, we have already purchased Rafale, we can order more rafale if needed. If we need numbers, we must go for indigenous planes only, which are cheaper, can be modified on our will. A flock of 4 tejas 1 rafale is enough to take down enemy flock if tejas is inferior in form of avionics (which I don't think so), rafale can do the job of avionics and tejas would do the rest. That's how things work, we don't need 500 rafale for doing same, instead 72 rafales and rest are tejas will do the work.

IAF originally wanted 126 mirages. Rafale is far more potent . Operationally 72 rafale are more capable than 126 mirage . So 36-44 more rafale are enough to close mmrca drama. And by the time they are delivered mwf will start coming which is very advanced mirage basically.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Don’t compare Rafales with Griepen Rafales are twin engine jets Griepen is a single engine jet they both are in different categories with their own set of pros and cons

 

[fire starter]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra in a podcast said that " Tejas mk1A is inferior to Jf-17 block 1". He himself is contradicting his own points that, Chinese jets are way behind Western and Russian counterparts.

lol he should better stick to foreign policy and strategic affairs.

 

[noobmaster69]

This narrative is pushed by import lobby Griepen is easy to maintain and advanced jet but a very expensive aircraft in it’s category

Lol! Go and check your original post which i replied to and you'll understand what i meant... I hate imports just as much and don't even recommended imported subsystems like you if indigenous ones are available. Hail Uttam! Hail Astra!

 

[IndiaRising]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra in a podcast said that " Tejas mk1A is inferior to Jf-17 block 1". He himself is contradicting his own points that, Chinese jets are way behind Western and Russian counterparts.

mitra is a dalal. Don’t listen to him

 

[VIP]

IAF originally wanted 126 mirages. Rafale is far more potent . Operationally 72 rafale are more capable than 126 mirage . So 36-44 more rafale are enough to close mmrca drama. And by the time they are delivered mwf will start coming which is very advanced mirage basically.

Yes, we need more Tejas Mk2 MWF, 123 mk1A tejas plus 200+ Tejas MWF should form around 20 of squadrons. Rest should be by AMCA, Rafale, ORCA, Su30mki. We need to phase out mig21, jaguar quickly.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Lol! Go and check your original post which i replied to and you'll understand what i meant... I hate imports just as much and don't even recommended imported subsystems like you if indigenous ones are available. Hail Uttam! Hail Astra!

I wanted to say that Tejas should use both Indigenous as well imported systems and subsystems like UTTAM or Some European AESA Radars Astra as well as Meteor and AIM-120D maybe then IAF will consider it in MMRCA because ORCA and MWF will still take 10 years before they go into production

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Griepen is no doubt the best Jet in it’s category but it has components from different countries and Is prone to sanctions from those countries beside that it’s too expensive for a single engine jet

 

[ARVION]

Griepen is no doubt the best Jet in it’s category but it has components from different countries and Is prone to sanctions from those countries beside that it’s too expensive for a single engine jet .

Joker are you on a payroll's of the SAAB AG's ?

 

[noobmaster69]

I wanted to say that Tejas should use both Indigenous as well imported systems and subsystems like UTTAM or Some European AESA Radars Astra as well as Meteor and AIM-120D maybe then IAF will consider it in MMRCA because ORCA and MWF will still take 10 years before they go into production

We do not need to import European radars to get Meteor operational with MWF or even the last batch of Mk1A. They will integrate the Meteor with our own Uttam radar if it's not found to have any Israeli backdoors. MBDA UK had even suggested allowing Meteor to be integrated with the Su-30 MKI, going against the French policy so even if they don't do that, surely there's a good chance the meteor with end up getting integrated with the Uttam so relax. And for what it's worth a dulse pulse motor AAM such as Derby ER or Astra Mk2 is more than enough for the Pakistanis and most of the PLAAF.

 

[noobmaster69]

Hey guys, i have a question. Are there any plans to rework the air intakes on the Mk1A or the MWF, or is ADA going to stick with the current style simple air intakes?

 

[patriots]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra in a podcast said that " Tejas mk1A is inferior to Jf-17 block 1". He himself is contradicting his own points that, Chinese jets are way behind Western and Russian counterparts.

My points

Jf17 blk 1 vs Tejas ioc
Both have almost same specification

1.But jf17 acks the data link and air to air refuelling capacity or the enhanced avionics, payload and electronic warfare systems

2.Tejas ioc too doesn't have ifr ,but avionics of Tejas ioc are good

Number built
Jf17 blk1= 50+
Tejas ioc = 18
Again Tejas ioc can be upgraded to foc then to mk1a
But recently a jf17 blk 1 over hauled by China but......The overhaul of the fighter jet includes major maintenance, featuring repairs and replacement of old components, including the airframe and engine
So no ifr added to jf17 blk
So paf has 50 + jf17 without ifr but iaf has 18 only

Jf17 blk 2 vs Tejas foc

Jf17

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 (single-seat) or 2 (dual-seat)
• Length: 14.93 m (49 ft 0 in)
• Wingspan: 9.44 m (31 ft 0 in)
• Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
• Wing area: 24.43 m2 (263.0 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg (27,999 lb) [197]
• Fuel capacity: 2,330 kg (5,137 lb) internal fuel; 1 x 800 kg (1,764 lb) centre-line drop tank; 2 x 800 kg (1,764 lb) or 1,100 kg (2,425 lb) under-wing drop tanks
• Payload: 4,600 kg (10,100 lb) external stores
• Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93MA afterburning turbofan with digital electronic engine control (DEEC), 50.4 kN (11,300 lbf) thrust [198] dry, 85.6 kN (19,200 lbf) with afterburner

Performance

• Maximum speed: 1,909 km/h (1,186 mph, 1,031 kn)
• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6[200][201]
• Cruise speed: 1,359 km/h (844 mph, 734 kn)
• Stall speed: 150 km/h (93 mph, 81 kn)
• Range: 2,500 km (1,600 mi, 1,300 nmi)
• Combat range: 1,352 km (840 mi, 730 nmi)
• Ferry range: 3,500 km (2,200 mi, 1,900 nmi) with 3 external drop tanks
• Service ceiling: 16,500[202] m (54,100 ft)
• g limits: +8/-3 (limited by flight control system)
• Rate of climb: 300 m/s (59,000 ft/min)
• Thrust/weight: 0.95 with RD-93 (with 50% internal fuel and 2*SRAAM) ,0.97 with WS-13 engine[203]

Armament

• Guns: 1 × 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-2 twin-barrel cannon
• Hardpoints: 7 (2 × wing-tip, 4 × under-wing, 1 × under-fuselage) with capacity for dual ejector racks on each under-wing hardpoint

Tejas

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 or 2
• Length: 13.2 m (43 ft 4 in)
• Wingspan: 8.2 m (26 ft 11 in)
• Height: 4.4 m (14 ft 5 in)
• Wing area: 38.4 m2 (413 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 6,560 kg (14,462 lb)
• Gross weight: 9,800 kg (21,605 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 13,500 kg (29,762 lb) [241]
• Fuel capacity: 2,458 kg (5,419 lb) internal; 2 × 1,200 l (260 imp gal; 320 US gal), 800 l (180 imp gal; 210 US gal) drop tank inboard, 725 l (159 imp gal; 192 US gal) drop tank under fuselage
• Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb) external stores[156]
• Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan, 53.9 kN (12,100 lbf) thrust dry, 90 kN (20,200 lbf) with afterburner[158][242]

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6[243]
• Range: 1,850 km (1,150 mi, 459 nmi)
• Combat range: 500 km (320 mi, 280 nmi) with internal tanks[244]
• Ferry range: 3,200 km (1,986 mi, 1,726 nmi) with 2x external drop tanks[244]
• Service ceiling: 16,500 m (50,000 ft)
• g limits: +8/−3.5
• Wing loading: 255.2 kg/m2 (52.3 lb/sq ft)
• Thrust/weight: 1.07[246]

Both have ifr,jf17 has Russian engine,and Tejas has western engine.And you all know which is good.
Now thrust weight of Tejas is better ,so it will perform better. I am not discussing ferry range and combat range of both as combat range vary with payload and with mission requirements.
Jf17 blk 2 carries spj pod ,dual racks , supersonic drop tanks which Tejas foc lacks.Tejas has elat 2032 radar but jf17 has chineese. I know from different people that the MMR radar of Tejas is good across iaf fleet.
All data taken from Wiki.

Weapons
Here we only discuss , weapons which are in integration or already fired.

Jf17 blk2
1.Sd10 bvr (tested in Pakistan in 2018)
2.pl 5 wvr

Tejas foc
1.Derby bvr
2. r73

Both can fire unguided bombs and laser guided bombs, both have ldp .
Now derby has range 50-60 km and sd 10 has range of 70 km(brochure range)as it is a chineese version of r77.if Sameer Joshi to be believed ,then there was a face off between jf17 with Mirage 2000....and jf17 went away without firing,in that article it is said that mica has better range than sd10.

Now wvr
R73 vs pl5
Pl5 to be rumoured as chineese version of python 5, so believe s to be superior of r73.

Again number

Jf17 blk 2=50+
Tejas foc= 18 +14(trainers)

Jf17blk 3 vs Tejas mk1a
Jf17 blk3
1.It will have three-axis fly-by-wire digital flight control system
2.Aesa radar chineese KLJ-7A radar
3.longer range bvr (pl15)
4.max speed -1.8 mach
5.more composite
6.helmet-mounted display

Tejas mk1a
1. It has quadruplex digital fly-by-wire Flight Control System (FCS) from day one.
2.,Aesa radar elta 2052 later uttam a
3. Longer range bvr (astra)
4.max speed 1.6
5.helmet-mounted display from day one
6.dual rack for ccm

Astra has 110 km max range but pl15 has 150 km range(claimed)
Tejas mk1a will have asraam(not integrated till now)

Dual rack with ccm already flying with jf17

Claims -

The Mark 1A will have 43 improvements over its predecessor such “active electronic scanned array” (AESA) radar, air to air refuelling, long-range BVR missiles and advanced electronic warfare to jam enemy radars and missiles along with multi-tasking capability that would give it a clear combat edge over Pakistan’s entire fighter fleet, and most of China’s as well according to experts
Vs
The JF-17 is expected to be fitted with an AESA radar, helmet-mounted display and sight system,” Global Times quoted Wei Dongxu, a Chinese military expert as saying Monday.

The development of the aircraft and production are already underway.

With less than half the price of the latest generation F-16 V fighter jet and features similar to that of the venerable US aircraft.

Numbers-
Jf17 block 3=50+(will be ordered)
Tejas mk1a= 73(will be ordered)

Status
Jf17 blk3- one prototype flown
Tejas mk1a - 2 lsps are being converted to mk1a
I have tried to match them both,I have tried to make the comparison clear.I have not included the weapons which are not tested for both jf17 and Tejas.

Production -
Jf 17 is produced by both china and Pakistan.
100+ jf17 are flying.

Tejas is produced by hal India.
Atleast 18 ioc and 2 foc are flying.


Ok ,some will ask why 73 mk1a...cause all trainers will be foc variant s.so 2+2+10= 14 trainers.
Source-
1.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder
2.https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=20
3.https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fc1xiaolongjf17thund/
4.https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/pakistans-jf-17-block-iii-fighter-jet-makes-maiden-flight/
5.https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/news/defence/china-delivers-first-overhauled-jf-17-fighter-jet-to-pakistan/amp_articleshow/69440035.cms
6.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas
7.https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24446/China_Working_on_Matching_JF_17_Block_III_With_F_16_V_Fighter_Jet#.XxaP7rdN2yU
7.https://eurasiantimes.com/tejas-mark-1a-can-outperform-entire-pakistani-fleet-most-of-chinese-defense-experts/