LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Flying Dagger]

Jaguar was incapable even their own Air forces ( UK, France ) had declined to accept But I agree on Politics because it was the time of Cold War. This is also true IAF wanted Mirage and they got Mirage + Mig 29 which was enough in term of requirement Against F16.
So, in my opinion, IAF got what was needed.

From 1978 to 2002, IAF got Mirage, Mig 29, Sukhois but god knows somehow requirement of 400 Mirage had always been there. How??
Not only me in fact anyone here, never said that IAF is not short of squadrons, never !! we are freaking to see IAF response to this crisis
IAF could have get Tejas as early as 2010 if they had taken Tejas seriously since its conceptions.

Incapable ? Of what?

It was a jet trainer turned into light attack and performed well whether gulf war or indo pak skirmishes.

Anyway now since you understood the scenario and are aware of IAF constant demand for Mirage since late 70s lets Come to your next issue that you have repeated several times.. despite clearly explained before that why the requirement of Mirage didn't go down.

IAF is short of 20-25 squadrons of modern fighter jets you still want to know why Mirage were needed?

IAF requirement of Mirage 2k remained because older aircrafts were getting retired . 300-400 Mirage 2k form only 15-20 squadrons.

The Sukhoi, Mig 29 etc which were inducted could barely complete the rest squadron needed. Sukhoi wasn't a replacement for Mirage order but a separate deal.
Remember your category post ?

But people (like you) who didn't let the deal happen were responsible for death of pilots and 27 Feb like incident.

Another factor is Mirage was Rafale of 80s 90s for IAF.

If you aren't aware Porks also have Mirage previous version which were pretty good that time.

And how did you determined 40 Mirage were good enough ? Or the 70 odds mig 29 which had serious maintenance and range issue then could take care of entire western region ?

It doesn't work like that. Even last year IAF chose Mirage for the strike just like in Kargil.

Tejas in 2010 wasn't worth.. IAF had terrible experience with HAL made products nor it performed exceptional well.

To shell out 40 million around in 2010 for Tejas ? It's a dubious question since even in that case IAF would have been flying migs due to less squadron strength and those Tejas IOC would be sitting faraway like the first squadron of tejas without any proper weapon system.

 

[scatterStorm]

Ananth Krishnan report says it can stay continuously in air for 8 hours with air to air refueling that means there is that much oxygen !

Maybe obogs is there .

Maybe... nope it is there, but it will be integrated into later 4 jets.

 

[scatterStorm]

Tejas Air Air refuelling....

People should subscribe to the “Defence decode” channel, if you haven’t. The chap amit focuses on technical side of things...

I already mentioned on his youtube channel that his channel and the amount of work that he put into videos are so underrated.

 

[Anathema]

I have few silly doubts though.

1) If a LCA with it's drop tanks is undergoing air-air refueling, can the drop tanks be filled too ?

Yes ofcourse. It is no different from ground refuelling. Same pipes , infrastructure is used. Earlier fighter planes used to have a knob where they could control the tanks to which fuel could be pumped (centerline vs outboard). But i dont think its no longer the case. These days fuel is goes to your fuselage and from there it is routed to external tanks. Its programatically controled. Its actually a pretty complicated process.

2) As compared to Tejas-IOC, Tejas-FOC has improved g-limits? Also, what is the expected g-limits of Tejas Mk-1A? Will improvements in zoom climb in FOC version add to g-limits ?

Dont know about any improvements to G-limits. Although i have heard rumours about increased AoA and STR.

 

[Anathema]

For people asking for OBOGS - folks its really not required at the moment !

A single oxygen tank that a fighter pilot carries with them suffices for 8-10hrs. So LCA with refueling probe can fly 8 hrs non stop.

So question you ask is - why is OBOGS really required ? Is it a fancy marketing requirement which no one really uses ?

Answer is - OBOGS is required from a logistics perspective. Shipping oxygen tank to forward bases or aircraft carriers introduces complexity which is solved if you have OBOGS.
So from a pilot perspective - they dont require OBOGS ( other than perhaps non stop transatlantic missions); From logistical perspective- its highly desired.

Hope this answers.

 

[Saichand K]

Yes ofcourse. It is no different from ground refuelling. Same pipes , infrastructure is used. Earlier fighter planes used to have a knob where they could control the tanks to which fuel could be pumped (centerline vs outboard). But i dont think its no longer the case. These days fuel is goes to your fuselage and from there it is routed to external tanks. Its programatically controled. Its actually a pretty complicated process.



Dont know about any improvements to G-limits. Although i have heard rumours about increased AoA and STR.

Any numbers you know in this regard?

 

[Saichand K]

For people asking for OBOGS - folks its really not required at the moment !

A single oxygen tank that a fighter pilot carries with them suffices for 8-10hrs. So LCA with refueling probe can fly 8 hrs non stop.

So question you ask is - why is OBOGS really required ? Is it a fancy marketing requirement which no one really uses ?

Answer is - OBOGS is required from a logistics perspective. Shipping oxygen tank to forward bases or aircraft carriers introduces complexity which is solved if you have OBOGS.
So from a pilot perspective - they dont require OBOGS ( other than perhaps non stop transatlantic missions); From logistical perspective- its highly desired.

Hope this answers.

Perhaps the weight also comes down? due to absence of oxygen cylinder.... No? As far as I know 180L (required for 8hrs of breathing for human) of oxygen weighs ~ 200kgs.

 

[Anathema]

Any numbers you know in this regard?

What numbers ? You mean STR and AoA ? those are rumours - ignore them

 

[Anathema]

Perhaps the weight also comes down? due to absence of oxygen cylinder.... No? As far as I know 180L (required for 8hrs of breathing for human) of oxygen weighs ~ 200kgs.

OBOGS machinery itself is not a light weight piece - OBOGS machine that was shown in Aero was said to weight around 250 kg if i remember correct. So it will cancel each other.

 

[Saichand K]

OBOGS machinery itself is not a light weight piece - OBOGS machine that was shown in Aero was said to weight around 250 kg if i remember correct. So it will cancel each other.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/sep/20/lca-tejas-to-level-up-with-on-board-oxygen-system-by-early-2020-says-drdo-2036300.html

Looks like the weight of OBOGs is ~15kg.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

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[Anathema]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/na...n-system-by-early-2020-says-drdo-2036300.html
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/sep/20/lca-tejas-to-level-up-with-on-board-oxygen-system-by-early-2020-says-drdo-2036300.html
Looks like the weight of OBOGs is ~15kg.

Please check official sources ! Our journos dont know the difference between AESA and PESA..so dont take their word for it. See if you can find official source. If its 15KG then yes weight reduction will also happen

 

[dude00720]

They aren't going to fight anytime soon either. Entire Chinese strategy is build numbers in peacetime and avoid war buy showing numbers. And it works.

But the truth keeps leaking through when j15, j10 keeps crashing and piddly poor Pakistan goes begging to italy for a decent radar for jf17!! That right there tells you how effective Chinese radar is!

The only thing Chinese are good at is building numbers and numbers are a threat in itself. Good thing is that Tibet is unforgiving for Chinese Jets and China is surrounded by enemies from Japan to USA to Vietnam to India.

The way, the chinese behave. It is classic San-Tzu. Win the war, without fighting the battle. Even their Great wall of China was supposed to stop the XiongNu. That ofcourse did not work. Their only battle they won was 1962, which was thanks to Nehru and his cohorts .

We dont need to be afraid of them in any way. Man-2-man we are much better.

 

[Longewala]

Didn't want to make a strawman argument. But the immediate response of a lot of members to the pathetic procurement and production record of Tejas, has been to harp on about how Tejas is so superior to J 10.

There's no denying that Tejas in the hands of Indian pilots will be superior to J 10 in the hands of Chinese pilots. But we can't ignore the absolute travesty of this entire production saga. Silver lining now is that we have approved the procurement of 83 Tejas. We should have been at this stage 12 years ago.

(Btw, what is sturgeon house?)

Sturgeon house is one of those Brit jerkfests (it's an Arrrse lite) where they try to console themselves on being left behind by their erstwhile colony in every respect by mocking India, Indians and made in India.....
While revealing themselves to be the real joke with brainfarts such as proclaiming Chally 2 to be the best tank ever, with a hp/ton ratio matching that of the t-55.


Agree with you the production history was a disaster, but one major reason was lack of confidence in ourselves. All that's behind us, and hopefully ten tears from now we will have 8-10 squadrons proudly flying in IAF colours.

 

[abhay rajput]

]


What nonsense is that. Ioc Tejas can fire derby bvr .
What foc does is expand it's envelope to full potential. Now this expanded envelope will be back ported to ioc lca and make them as lethal as foc lca.

Lca mk1a will be integrated with Astra and then that will also be back ported to mk1.

Eventually all lca will reach mk1a standard.

no they can not . I am not going to get into another discussion on this topic. Tejas IOC variant cant fire BVR as of now and neither they are being upgraded as of now. there are plans for upgrading but it hasnt even started yet , most probably after delivery of FOC variants.

 

[Bleh]

What the hell! Which one is this?

Tail number is when 5021 and the modified canopy of FOC but that box behind the pilot isn't there.

I think they just removed that cover during first flight and that is how it always look internally.

 

[Hari Sud]

LCA at about $60 million a piece is a pricey jet.
Can somebody re-verify the above math.
Why is it so pricey.........

 

[Saichand K]

LCA at about $60 million a piece is a pricey jet.
Can somebody re-verify the above math.
Why is it so pricey.........

I think perhaps for support (from HAL), maintenance and spares costs for a longer period of time.

 

[Saichand K]

Also, any info on g limits and STR, AOA of FOC-Tejas available in our forum?

 

[Hydra3]

I think perhaps for support (from HAL), maintenance and spares costs for a longer period of time.

New deal doesn't cover any maintenance. Still it pricy, may be because of the imported critical components.