LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[tsunami]

Why Probably. It is not designed considering RCS unlike tejas which is optimized for lowest RCS under aerodynamic constrains. Tejas uses Composites which JF 17 doesn't use. It takes almost double time to take off inspite of very big LAVCON. Its maneuverability and T/W ratio is poor. JF 17 pilot tried to copy Tejas in air show and could mangw the vertical fligt for 1 second only and that by its kinetic energy. Tejas' pilot could fly it vertically for mor more than 10 second to about 20 second. Vertical loop timing of tejas is <20 second and horizantal looping is about 23 second which is reduced to less than 20 second Mk1+ with aerodynamic improvement. Many such changes are coming in Tejas in all front including weight, Aerodynamic, RCS and electronics. Bunder is improving in Electronic only. Those improvements too are with junk Chinese electronics.

All this things were being discussed when MK1A concept first came. But no body is talking about any specific weight reduction when contract is actually being signed. That's why I asked is it still on cards or we just dropped the idea.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

All this things were being discussed when MK1A concept first came. But no body is talking about any specific weight reduction when contract is actually being signed. That's why I asked is it still on cards or we just dropped the idea.

it is repeatedly said that weight shall reduce but nobody is saying how much. Actually old design LCA MK2 was planned with 6100 kg whih is 400 kg lower that MK1 inspite of being 0.5 m longer. So weight shall reduce. There is no doubt. the only thing is that we do not know how much.

 

[rone]

they said foc mk1 first flight in OTC then said in November end now we moving to 2019 end can we see first flight soon?,so much on keeping dead lines prospective from HAL, I still doubt their claims, I have a opinion they saying all Fancy time lines just to get Media coverage nothing more, no Wonder IAF running for foreign mals every time . least they come on time unlike HAL, when we going to change guy's, no idea am loosing my hope on these sarkari babu's

PS: I really miss parikar he made momentum to LCA project now it came back to wat it was before BJP no foc flights no mk1a order's only lip service which go up to 5th gen

 

[Pulkit]

Yes, this will happen in tejas Mk1+. Those which are left out from update shall be updated later.

Let's hope for the best, though I am not at all confident about it being done on time.

 

[Bleh]

they said foc mk1 first flight in OTC then said in November end now we moving to 2019 end can we see first flight soon?,so much on keeping dead lines prospective from HAL, I still doubt their claims, I have a opinion they saying all Fancy time lines just to get Media coverage nothing more, no Wonder IAF running for foreign mals every time . least they come on time unlike HAL, when we going to change guy's, no idea am loosing my hope on these sarkari babu's

PS: I really miss parikar he made momentum to LCA project now it came back to wat it was before BJP no foc flights no mk1a order's only lip service which go up to 5th gen

HAL lower employee's payscale related strikes have probably hit the timeline... No new announcements made. Most of the frames of 4 Mark1FOC had been built we know that from older photos. Something should be out by the end of this year.

 

[darshan978]

IT looks like weight reduction is not on cards for the MK1A... No body is taking about that.

LRUs of mk1a will be updated and they will be modern unlike current mk1 with are older tech
So weight should be down.

 

[Bleh]

LRUs of mk1a will be updated and they will be modern unlike current mk1 with are older tech
So weight should be down.

Will just LRU & landing-gear redesigning be enough?... The are adding a lot of new shit.

 

[Shashwat]

More Uttam flights with now almost 13 flights of LSP2.

Source- ADA

 

[WolfPack86]

India May Sign Deal For 20 percent Cheaper LCA Jets At DefExpo-2020
India is likely to finalise the INR 40,000 crore contract for 83 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas jets, 20% cheaper from previously quoted price, next February at DefExpo-2020 event in Lucknow city, Uttar Pradesh state.

In November 2016, Defense Acquisition Council (DAC), India's highest decision-making body on procurement, approved purchase of Tejas Mark-1A fighters by the IAF at a cost of Rs 50,025 crore.

Subsequent negotiations between defense ministry, Indian Air Force (IAF) and manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has helped bring down the price of the jets from INR 50,025 crore to INR 40,000 crore, Indian media reported late last week.


"The draft contract of the deal has been readied by the HAL and the cost of the deal has now come down to around Rs 40,000 crore. This is Rs 10,000 crore less than the Acceptance of Necessity given by the Defense Ministry in 2016," defense sources said.

In December 2017, the IAF had issued a single-vendor tender to the HAL for procuring 83 LCA, but the negotiations and other related issues have been going on since then mainly due to issues over the price.

The aircraft will have improved serviceability, faster weapon-loading time, enhanced survivability, a better electronic warfare suite and Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar that will significantly enhance its capability.

The Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) had provided the Final Operational Clearance to the Tejas LCA earlier this year during Aero India in Bengaluru approving its capabilities including beyond visual range air-to-air and air-to-ground attack capabilities as well as longer endurance through mid-air refueling.

In a previous order, the IAF had signed a deal with the HAL for 40 Tejas LCAs. So far, around 18 LCAs have been delivered to the IAF from the previous order.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...rcent-Cheaper-LCA-Jets-At-DefExpo-2020-808551

 

[rohit b3]

No news of FOC Tejas models being delivered to IAF? The first one was supposed to be handed over in Nov-Dec?

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Will this happen in Tejas MK1A or MK2?
Uttam I read will be part of last 50 Tejas MK1A is it true?

If Uttam is ready by next 50 Tejas, Ultimate aim is to convert all tejas in MKa+ configuration, so ultimately, Utttam is bound to go in all Tejas.

 

[Pulkit]

If Uttam is ready by next 50 Tejas, Ultimate aim is to convert all tejas in MKa+ configuration, so ultimately, Utttam is bound to go in all Tejas.

Even if they get it ready by let's say the last 50 Tejas, it will be added to all the Tejas only at the time of the first upgrade and if I am right that will be at least a few years.

 

[Bhurki]

How many tejas were slated for 2019-20?
How many have been produced ?

 

[Bleh]

No news of FOC Tejas models being delivered to IAF? The first one was supposed to be handed over in Nov-Dec?

How many tejas were slated for 2019-20?
How many have been produced ?

4 of 16 FOC Tejas needs to be delivered before end of fiscal year 2019-20.

First 4 (SP-21 to 24) will be probably be delivered together, or by twos in short interval. Last time we saw them in September they were being fitted at jigs, slated to fly in November. The labour strike caused a 3-4week delay.They were to deliver 12 FOC Tejas in 2020-21, so there'll be no overall delay. Defence Decode said SP-33 & 34 are on assembly.
However, after that the line will sit idle for another year or only have to deliver 8 trainer-version Tejas... thus any expansion of production capacity to 24 will apply only to the 83 Mark1A batch.

Mark1A order is yet to be signed until Defexpo-2020 (April), meaning delivery will start only by 2021. Lead time for production has been claimed to be cut from from 12-18 months to 8. IAF still owes HAL ₹20,000 crores. I doubt they have the resources to start production before the order is placed, like they did with LCH.

 

[Frontrunner]

4 of 16 FOC Tejas needs to be delivered before end of fiscal year 2019-20.

First 4 (SP-21 to 24) will be probably be delivered together, or by twos in short interval. Last time we saw them in September they were being fitted at jigs, slated to fly in November. The labour strike caused a 3-4week delay.They were to deliver 12 FOC Tejas in 2020-21, so there'll be no overall delay. Defence Decode said SP-33 & 34 are on assembly.
However, after that the line will sit idle for another year or only have to deliver 8 trainer-version Tejas... thus any expansion of production capacity to 24 will apply only to the 83 Mark1A batch.

Mark1A order is yet to be signed until Defexpo-2020 (April), meaning delivery will start only by 2021. Lead time for production has been claimed to be cut from from 12-18 months to 8. IAF still owes HAL ₹20,000 crores. I doubt they have the resources to start production before the order is placed, like they did with LCH.

Mk1A delivery to start by 2021?? Is this true.. ? This is too good to be true.. AFAIK... first delivery will happen after 3 yrs of signing the contract... am i missing something??

 

[Shadow]

Aren't HAL gonna first come up with the definitive version of Mk1A before IAF place the orders.

Let HAL display the product first.

 

[Bleh]

Mk1A delivery to start by 2021?? Is this true.. ? This is too good to be true.. AFAIK... first delivery will happen after 3 yrs of signing the contract... am i missing something??

Most likely the 8 trainer versions will be delivered in 2021... Following which, due to no extension of a FOC orders, all part of the line many sit idle at some point of time for upto 1 year.

HAL is to start metal-cutting for building its MWF prototype in 2020. But they don't have the money to do the same on large scale for mass production of Mark1A even before deal is inked. Now that they've spilt Mark1A in 2 batches & aren't going to wait for Uttam etc. to iron out all issues, the construction could start at 2021 & delivery in 2022.
I'm not saying it'll happen but there's a good chance now, as Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to 8 months.

Aren't HAL gonna first come up with the definitive version of Mk1A before IAF place the orders.

Let HAL display the product first.

Pretty sure IAF had received it, otherwise how would they be negotiating price?

 

[Bhurki]

thus any expansion of production capacity to 24 will apply only to the 83 Mark1A batch.

Then it seems they would rather have no expansion, since the line will be useless in just 3 years. For them, it makes more sense to manufacture 16/year and deliver entire batch in 5 years without additional costs of increasing capacity. Sure if the batch was bigger, it could make sense.

Mark1A order is yet to be signed until Defexpo-2020 (April), meaning delivery will start only by 2021. Lead time for production has been claimed to be cut from from 12-18 months to 8.

I've read it'll take atleast 3 years from order.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...issues-contract-this-year-119022101361_1.html
'However, that depends on a crucial step: the Ministry of Defence (MoD) must place the contract for 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters this year. HAL executives point out that building a complex fighter from ground up requires three years. For each year delay in ordering, there will be a corresponding delay in delivery.'

 

[Bleh]

I've read it'll take atleast 3 years from order.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...issues-contract-this-year-119022101361_1.html
'However, that depends on a crucial step: the Ministry of Defence (MoD) must place the contract for 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters this year. HAL executives point out that building a complex fighter from ground up requires three years. For each year delay in ordering, there will be a corresponding delay in delivery.'

Yes... But after all that they declared things like Uttam AESA (still unready) would be in the later batches & they'll start Mark 1A production with other avaliable alternatives.
So if lead in time is indeed reduced, when the order is finally placed they may start working on it alongside the trainers to avoid the idling of the line. It'll cost them extra money to restart a closed/halted line.

And Tejas line will move on to MWF & AMCA. They expansion to 24 will very likely happen, but not right now. They can't afford that sort of unnecessary extravagance with nothing to keep it going.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

I think first LCA MKIA will fly only after 4 years of Order being given & payments being released. IAF has successfully delayed LCA programme.