Know Your 'Rafale'

JBH22

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Buying EF-2000 would be a nightmare this plane is logistic nightmare right wing in 1 country left country in another country.
Rafale is a good bet its going to be the mainstay of French airforce for years to come hence it has good growth potential as they will continue to invest in R&D
 

Yusuf

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Buying EF-2000 would be a nightmare this plane is logistic nightmare right wing in 1 country left country in another country.
Rafale is a good bet its going to be the mainstay of French airforce for years to come hence it has good growth potential as they will continue to invest in R&D

Well we are talking about possible cancellation and what can be the only way to do it. Without immediate replacement we cannot afford to cancel. We need some birds. I hope the deal is not canceled. But if it came to it, either go with the Typhoon or the Super Hornet. Don't call for another sound of evaluations. But before they cancel the deal, they should also take into consideration the fact that others will jack up their prices and in the end, the potential loss will be far greater than the kick backs in monetary terms.

Better stick to the deal even if the $2 billion that was alleged as kickbacks are true. In the end, if we are paying less than the Typhoon over life cycle cost in spite of the kick backs, why should we complain?
 

Yusuf

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But I thought you dont like "mass-murdering" idealogues as PM.

Is Stalin halal ?
Stalin was a saint! :rotflmao:

I guess left wing dictatorship is allowed and right wing not good
 

Jagdish

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Instead of Antony Must Cancel Rafale Deal! , Antony should resign as defence minister would have been better much better for Indian armed force & national security

Better he should retire like many in UPA , that will save India

Reason to show his clean image he has blacklisted many companies , without even bothering to find an alternative supplier for the same
Eg: Bhim 155mm Self propelled howitzer project

Has called for greater involvement of Indian private industry through microphone , in reality nothing more has happened
 

Armand2REP

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It sounds like the author is more butthurt over EFT losing than any potential Rafale corruption.
 

lookieloo

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Well we are talking about possible cancellation and what can be the only way to do it...
Come on now. Is the threat of cancellation really that serious just because of some partisan media shrieks? Admittedly, the vagueries of Indian politics escape me for the most part, but if weapons programs got canceled every time vocal opponents turned up, the entire free world would stand armed with little more than crossbows.
 

Yusuf

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Come on now. Is the threat of cancellation really that serious just because of some partisan media shrieks? Admittedly, the vagueries of Indian politics escape me for the most part, but if weapons programs got canceled every time vocal opponents turned up, the entire free world would stand armed with little more than crossbows.
Anything is possible in India. National Interests are sacrificed for political points.
 

mikhail

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It sounds like the author is more butthurt over EFT losing than any potential Rafale corruption.
don't worry mate IAF won'tcancel this deal at any cost even if God himself wants to cancel it!we need the Rafales A.S.A.P. to counter the growing strength of the PLAAF!and IAF knows this pretty well,so mark my words that this deal will be signed within the next 6 months.Period:ranger:!
 

Mariner HK

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invest 20 billion $ into tejas mk1 and 2, amca to mass produce it in short time... buy engines from us or uk fit them with bigger and better tejas ... matter solved
 

Armand2REP

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invest 20 billion $ into tejas mk1 and 2, amca to mass produce it in short time... buy engines from us or uk fit them with bigger and better tejas ... matter solved
Let them give DRDO and HAL $20 billion with little direction... most of it will be wasted. Creating a $20 billion slush fund for private industry to meet defence goals would be money better spent. But you won't get your product on time unless they partner with foreign firms anyway. But you will get more indigenisation.
 

anoop_mig25

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doesnot report has link

And should indian becomes really banana republic allready lots of countries are pissed with india , why add one more
 

just4nikhilesh

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so did antony is impressed by US for buying F-35 or MIG-35 or any ITALIAN fighter plane???????
 

Mariner HK

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Why MMRCA why not 2 engine MCA TEJAS? Any gud reason ADA/DRDO? Any good personal benifit ? Tipping point in Indian Democrazy

It really worries me as a Indian with great Ancient past.I wondered did we had some extra brain like Drop Tanks in the ancient times when we had greatest technology advancement in all field. We had a knowledge of starts its movements ,UFO (vimanas) greatest mega cities with 11 lac germ palaces ,Drainage system and much much more.When today nasa the world's best space agency ,Microsoft and many leading co has HUGE contribution from INDIAN. Once Bilgates said,If usa want to stop our recuirment of indian into microsoft We have no other option but to shift to INDIA. But,This 2nd largest population in the world,Country which thought humanity the ways to live like human is the worst weapon producers.Even small nations like Israel Japan Malaysia brazin singapore export their defence equipments,Civil and military technology.

We have the worst history of failurw in Indigenous weapons capabilities.Whole world laugh at our face.Including our own people laugh at ADA,DRDO ,HAL and othe defence PSUs when ever they say that This product will be inducted in 5 years or what ever the time they mention. Its a shame how can this Great Indian Human Race succeed abroad and in Private Firms in india but cant produce a RIFILE ,Tanks,Fighter jets and other normal essential Weapons required to save this nation from security threats.Now some of fools reading this will counter a question "Kid producing indigenous AC is not easy DEAL' I Agree but are DRDO ,ADA ,Ordinance factory, HAL etc not ASHAMED to say this...? For what taxpayers money been paid them for ? Since a normal poor indian cant produce a high tec weapon these defence PSUs are created and recuited on basis on their talent to produce these things... THEY MUST PRODUCE INDIGENOUS WEAPONS...Thats their primary objective.

Lets come to our 30 year old legacy. TEJAS. Today every deal is a scam.Its true no bitching.The same core group selected Agusta choppers which was denied as too costly by PRESIDENT of UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ,Clinged the Rafale deal .How can this deal been clean and honest.That too rafale was rejected during field trails by INDIAN AIRFORCE and EF typoon came up as a leader.IAF expressed its intrest on EF typoon.Later rafale was brought back our defence minister and later won the deal.Am not saying rafale is a bad choice what am saying wat if ef was our better choice ? What ever we all agree to disagree on MMRCA. Now how can one belive this was a fair deal with no kick backs ? If there was a kick back for 20 Bil$ deal the kick back amount is very huge.If a dassault paid this huge bribe to get this deal its obvious the price the offer to us will be manuplated and ll be high . Ofcourse it will be.After all Rafale is not for charity . So this deal is not and will not be fair.Am affraid it ll even move ahead.Now the price quoted by rafale is less so it was our winner but the tricky part is this quated price is not the life cycle cost ? Rafale was lowest bidder against EF typoon 's Price and life cycle cost .. This is the problem for not signing this deal yet.Our Mr.Perfect Antony Ji said negotiations are going on to make rafale accept this bidding price as inclucive of life cycle cost. Thats why my friend we got news that MMRCA deal will cost more than what we thought.this is not bitching we all knew about it. MAKE SENSE ? Dont know this deal will go through or not...

What if we scraped mmrca deal.Its a possible many times came close to it recently and in the past. Now because of these anti national politicians Kick backs and bribe now our countries security is at STAKE.We already 7 squadrens less.Pakistan getteinf new and upgraded f16s,j17,j11b and j10 is also on card for pakistan,on eastern front its CHINA.I really wonder how our politicians takes china so easily when USA-sole super power is affraid off,the whole South China sea nieghbours getting togher (ganging up) to take this chinese might but INDIA takes it as ALL IS WELL. China wont attack india .As if China is our bab. Senseless and poor fore sight of our defence personal will be felt when whole lots of missile and bombs rains from our skies.But these BABUS and Netas will flee to other western nation where they will live like a BILLINIORS... Sometime i thought this might be the reason the steal too much. So what can we do for our IAF? Only remedi is Scrap this deal first. Lets have this mother of all deal money 20 billion dollars for mmrca ,chopper deal some 6 bils$ or more, i mean india to spend nearly 100 bilion on weapons. Just think wat if this huge money Invested in our INDIGENOUS PROGRAMS. Insteed of rafale we can produce our own Medium class tejas with two engines.We can buy engines and other system for now and assemble it in our 2 engined config MCA tejas. CANT we do it? We will produce our own MCH , medium wieght Dhruv helli.
We always critic China for coping but do u all remember when our PM Mr.Singh on rare occation opened his mouth and said to our defence PSUs like drdo,ada hal etc that "BEG,STEAL or BUY" ? But is so funny and shamefull that we cant even do that? We had To for t 90, sukoi 30 mki but do u know the production rate and quality of the machine we produce is not the quality of the russian's . And w still cant produce su 30 mki at the rate which we have to ? Hal is so casual about it so has our babus and netas.Now is that mean we dont have ability to even "BEG STEAL"?

What shall we do know ? :We need accountability black and white from defence PSUs.The head of the project should be held and stripped from his position and all gonerment benifits should be stoped for not meeting the dead line or indulge in corruption or lobbied by forign weapon vendors to delay the indigenous projects.I strongly belive it will have greater impact on our projects and paythe way for indigenous weapons.
We need to bring in Private players and use the model of USA and RUSSIA where 2 to 3 companied like HAL will compete with each other.Today hal makes some jokes like basic trainer will be ready by 2015 ...now we all should notice is that due to this delay of this WW2 design trainer with tuboprop fan ...We had to buy swedish trainer for double or triple the cost.Is it a co insident ? Or IS IT A ORGANISED CRIME? All project meet this same fate and we end up exporting.If are are exporting its fine .But why do we waste our money pay hal cheif and drdo and othe PSUs ?Just think about the money spent till now and what was the result? NOTHING

Our Army recently expressed is dissatisfaction on ARJUN MK2... our army should be told that u must live with it.As russians and usa had to at their early years...What ever they got they mass produced it and later IMPROVED it.If we keep importing where are to taking our future ? What is the use at the time of war when exported country ban INDIA or sanctioned us ?

Now just think about the following BELOW.: tell ur comment on it Like how u felt and how u feel :

Year 2014.War escalated between india and Pakistan .China enters the war .USA ,russia and kept out of conflict .As nuclear war may break out and they call for peace in the region. Prime Minister Mr.Modi order for War time projects INCLUDING MCA tejas .Not cheep like tekas mk1 but cost arround 80 mil $.With more power full Specs.To mass Produce.To prepare for full blown WW3.



MCA Tejas

Project started 2014
First Flight: 2015 december
Induction 2016 ~2017 on war time basis.
Thanks for DRDO ADA .

Specs:
India copied specs from best delta wing fighters fron Ef and Rafale

Crew: 1 or 2
Length: 52ft 9in
Wingspan: 35ft 11in
Max Takeoff weight: 51,809Ibs
Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofans, 20,250Ibs
Max Speed: Mach 2+
Max Supercruise Speed: Mach 1.5
Range (without tanks): 864 miles
Service Ceiling: 65,000ft

Mass produced and later exported to its ally. Now India forms its own alliance.Takes potions as the leader of the group.

Year 2020 India test flown its Pak Fa with russian help and also AMCA ... With these technology India to upgrade its MMRCA tejas into 5 th gen Features. Now world's Chepst 5 th gen Fighter is born...

HOW WAS IT TO READ? May be very ambitious but WHY ITS NOT POSSIBLE ?

Long live this great nation.May our mother HINDUSTAN reclaim its Super Power Again
By-Hareesh Kumar (MARINER HK)
..JAI HIND

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/49099-why-mmrca-why-not-2-engine-mca-tejas-any-gud-reason-ada-drdo.html
 

Daredevil

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The simple reason is we need air-craft to be filled in fast to replace our ageing Mig-27s. Rafale fits in perfectly with its multi-role capabilities as well make sure that our squadron strength is within reasonable limits to fight on two fronts if need arises.

Two engine Tejas will not be able to do that owing to time shortage and lack of modern infrastructure. We are still waiting for LCA-mk1 to be inducted and we are here talking about non-existant two engine Tejas.
 

Mariner HK

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Two engine Tejas will not be able to do that owing to time shortage and lack of modern infrastructure. We are still waiting for LCA-mk1 to be inducted and we are here talking about non-existant two engine Tejas.
if u dont have infra then creat one.. lets buy 50 rafale and rest we will make our own mmrca ... wat is stoping us ?
 

Daredevil

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if u dont have infra then creat one.. lets buy 50 rafale and rest we will make our own mmrca ... wat is stoping us ?
Infrastructure is being created but it won't happen with the pace that you want. HAL/DRDO have to first able to absorb all the technologies before it can go on to build things in a modern way. The current path of LCA and AMCA is fine and well paced. We need Rafale to fill up our squadron numbers as well as absorb new technologies.

Nothing has stopped us so far and nothing will stop us in future except our ability and determination. This is where we lack.
 

Known_Unknown

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But I thought you dont like "mass-murdering" idealogues as PM.

Is Stalin halal ?
Depends on whether he's *only* a mass-murderer or whether he's something more than that. I would certainly not want a mass murderer like Hitler or even Pol Pot (lest you think I'm only against non-communists).

Stalin was a paranoid, trigger happy man but he was also a great leader, visionary, and had deep strategic vision.
 

halloweene

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If i stick to the logic of the article,
(i) there maybe a scandal about Agusta Westland
(ii) AgustaWestland is Finmecanicca owned
(iii) Finmecanicca owns Selex
(iv) Selex builts EuroFighter radar
Therefore Typhoon should be banned.......
By a curious logic the author drives a weird conclusion : Rafale shoud be banned...
 

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