Know Your 'Rafale'

[noob101]

was there any situation of DROP tanks falling on soldiers head ? i'm very concerned about it, wondering where drop tanks fall

Probably not in recent times but might of happened during world war 2... I dont think that drop tanks are dropped during training and routine missions, I sure that there must be some story of drop tanks falling on some civilians or some inhabited areas, if any one knows of any let me know

 

[methos]

Germans are living in lala-land thinking they are the epitomes of virtue in the Eurozone. They believe that if other countries would follow their economic model everything would be fine. Well, that's bullshit. Germany is as much as a cause of the Euro's failure as Greece and the other southern states, its used the weakening effect of the poor economies to keep down the Euro and allowed Germany to build its industry at the expense of the rest of the Eurozone.

That's BS.
If you want to discuss the financial crisis and the reaons for the problems of some Eurozone countries open a thread in the "Europe and Russia" subforum and we can talk about it.

 

[weg]

That's BS.
If you want to discuss the financial crisis and the reaons for the problems of some Eurozone countries open a thread in the "Europe and Russia" subforum and we can talk about it.

Please go ahead. But regardless of the Germans fantasy problems and fantasy solutions, that is the view the markets are taking and its the reason why every effort to 'fix' the euro so far has failed and will continue to fail.

Germany has to start paying to bail out the defaulting countries on a permanent basis. Thats how currency unions work.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Really? The US didn't invent most of the technology, you know.

And MBDA's Meteor has 25 years of extra development added to it and its designed to be a major step up in dynamic performance over AMRAAM.

Lol..Stop denying, USA is way ahead of any nation in Europe as far as defense industry. They already had their Stealth fighter in 1990 and they got their AESA radar long before any country in EU.

 

[arundo]

Germans are living in lala-land thinking they are the epitomes of virtue in the Eurozone. They believe that if other countries would follow their economic model everything would be fine. Well, that's bullshit. Germany is as much as a cause of the Euro's failure as Greece and the other southern states, its used the weakening effect of the poor economies to keep down the Euro and allowed Germany to build its industry at the expense of the rest of the Eurozone.

Not really.
It would agree, that Germany's export successes and strong economy are (partially) based on of a huge and increasing low-wage sector and one of the lowest average salaries increases in the EU over the last decade (hourly costs in the industry are higher in several European countries incl. France than in Germany today), but on the other hand Germany still has strong structures and has managed to set up favorable conditions to push innovations in future technologies.

I wouldn't agree that Germany is as responsible as the southern countries having troubles today. What we need in Europe is same rules of play everywhere. However, the differences in economic development, efficiency and productivity between the countries are a main issue. Finally, do not forget that a big part of structural aids for less developed European countries comes from Germany. EU would collapse without Germany and France.

But that's off topic.

 

[weg]

Finally, do not forget that a big part of structural aids for less developed European countries comes from Germany. EU would collapse without Germany and France.

But that's off topic.

Currency union require fiscal transfers. The UK does it with Scotland and the regions, the US does it with its poorer sheep shagging States. Germany (et al) have to do it with Greece/Portugal.

Pay up or get out. Its disgraceful to blame and persecute the Greeks - you married them so they are family now.

 

[methos]

Lol..Stop denying, USA is way ahead of any nation in Europe as far as defense industry. They already had their Stealth fighter in 1990 and they got their AESA radar long before any country in EU.

Well, West Germany started designing a stealth fighter in the same year the F117 had it's maiden flight. So aparently U.S. advantages aren't so great.

 

[methos]

Currency union require fiscal transfers. The UK does it with Scotland and the regions, the US does it with its poorer sheep shagging States. Germany (et al) have to do it with Greece/Portugal.

Pay up or get out. Its disgraceful to blame and persecute the Greeks - you married them so they are family now.

This is not what a fiscal union is for nor ever was. Scotland has been enslaved by England and U.S. pay only for getting influence and to get their companies advantages in these countries. There are even EU laws which actually should have prevented what is happening now.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Well, West Germany started designing a stealth fighter in the same year the F117 had it's maiden flight. So aparently U.S. advantages aren't so great.

You are comparing that mock up which did not even have canted tail fins with the F-114! USA has 13 aircraft carriers how many does all of Europe have?
They had super cruise on the super hornet way back in 1999 and the GripenNG and rest of the euro canards are still suspect of super cruise abilities.

USA is way more advanced its time to give credit where its due.

 

[methos]

The U.S.A. have many carriers because they want a global military presence. This is not what the European countries want anymore.
The first aircraft capable of supercruising was a British one.

They are not necessarily more advanced, but they have a large number of vehicles (regardless of land, naval or aircrafts) and design and introduce them at a way faster rate. Therefore the U.S. Air Force/Army/Marine Corps/Navy all introduce new features at a way faster rate into service, even though the percentage of their equipment having these advanced features might be lower than in European armies/navies/air forces a few years later.

You might notice that I wrote that the U.S. advantages (if there are any) aren't as great as your post tried to suggest. I didn't wrote that the U.S. army/navy/air force systems wouldn't have any.

 

[weg]

This is not what a fiscal union is for nor ever was. Scotland has been enslaved by England

Enslaved ???

You do realize Scotland basically begged for a Union with England due national bankruptcy?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

Scots will not vote for independence becuase they know its not in their economic interest. England support Scotland financially, which is the deal we have for the better interest of both.

 

[vanadium]

Currency union require fiscal transfers. The UK does it with Scotland and the regions, the US does it with its poorer sheep shagging States. Germany (et al) have to do it with Greece/Portugal.

Pay up or get out. Its disgraceful to blame and persecute the Greeks - you married them so they are family now.

Please do not contaminate an Indian forum devoted to the MMRCA with your frigging European economic debate. There are zillions of fora where you can talk forever around these problems.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

The U.S.A. have many carriers because they want a global military presence. This is not what the European countries want anymore.
The first aircraft capable of supercruising was a British one.

They are not necessarily more advanced, but they have a large number of vehicles (regardless of land, naval or aircrafts) and design and introduce them at a way faster rate. Therefore the U.S. Air Force/Army/Marine Corps/Navy all introduce new features at a way faster rate into service, even though the percentage of their equipment having these advanced features might be lower than in European armies/navies/air forces a few years later.

You might notice that I wrote that the U.S. advantages (if there are any) aren't as great as your post tried to suggest. I didn't wrote that the U.S. army/navy/air force systems wouldn't have any.

USA does not need a global empire, if it was one its pretty bad at it because it rules no countries. That however is for a different topic.

Designing and introducing is what is called being advanced. If we had the money we would be designing and introducing fast as well, we would build world class universities and facilities to do R&D here in India. That way almost all european nations are behind the US, there is no comparison to the SR-71 even today that is on its class of its own, even the space shuttle or landing a man on the moon the Hubble telescope are huge leaps, even Western europe is not in the same league, sure the lightning may have super cruised but that was nothing, it had no radar or carried no extra weight.

 

[vanadium]

Well, West Germany started designing a stealth fighter in the same year the F117 had it's maiden flight. So aparently U.S. advantages aren't so great.

And when a top US delegation was shown it they had a fit as it resembled their Have Blue black project, which eventually became the F-117. Paranoid reactions on the US side I was told. You may guess what happened to the Lampyridiae project. Destroyed. Not the scientists and designers fortunately. Their experience was of course used in the Typhoon to reduce the RCS, tune the EW Suite power requirements and to avoid going full stealth because of the early technology and the inevitable mass penalties (and consequently cost) associated with a full stealthy design.

The great contribution in the design definition of Typhoon was probably not chase that last 10% of extra performance through very costly VLO solutions.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

And when a top US delegation was shown it they had a fit as it resembled their Have Blue black project, which eventually became the F-117. Paranoid reactions on the US side I was told. You may guess what happened to the Lampyridiae project. Destroyed. Not the scientists and designers fortunately. Their experience was of course used in the Typhoon to reduce the RCS, tune the EW Suite power requirements and to avoid going full stealth because of the early technology and the inevitable mass penalties (and consequently cost) associated with a full stealthy design.

The great contribution in the design definition of Typhoon was probably not chase that last 10% of extra performance through very costly VLO solutions.

That crappy mock up meant nothing, why was no european nation building a stealth aircraft instead of EF-2000, Rafael or Gripen? That because they cant, lets face the facts. Europeans always get defensive and jealous and begin justifying it in all possible ways.

 

[vanadium]

You are comparing that mock up which did not even have canted tail fins with the F-114! USA has 13 aircraft carriers how many does all of Europe have?
They had super cruise on the super hornet way back in 1999 and the GripenNG and rest of the euro canards are still suspect of super cruise abilities.

USA is way more advanced its time to give credit where its due.

The Super Hornet aka Super Slow takes an eternity to accelerate to supersonic speed with the afterburners lit. It will supercruise only if you add to it a couple of huge rocket boosters. That thing is a brick!

I was quite surprised to learn from the Swiss leaked evaluation report (WHAT A SHAME!!!) that Typhoon was measured achieving Mach 1.4 super cruising speed. I was until then of the opinion it was in the M1.15-1.20 area, that is to say in a bracket not tactically significant.
Supercruising at Mach 1.4 becomes instead a very useful military quality and not too far from the initial F-22 performance. The addition of the thrust vectoring nozzles for aircraft trimming in the supersonic domain would probably add a couple of decimal points.

The US are the imperial power of the epoch and probably already on a declining trajectory as all the empires before them. So let them have all these Battle Groups and let them bleed to death, before they realize the insanity of those crazy military budgets.

 

[Robin]

And when a top US delegation was shown it they had a fit as it resembled their Have Blue black project, which eventually became the F-117. Paranoid reactions on the US side I was told. You may guess what happened to the Lampyridiae project. Destroyed. Not the scientists and designers fortunately. Their experience was of course used in the Typhoon to reduce the RCS, tune the EW Suite power requirements and to avoid going full stealth because of the early technology and the inevitable mass penalties (and consequently cost) associated with a full stealthy design.

The great contribution in the design definition of Typhoon was probably not chase that last 10% of extra performance through very costly VLO solutions.

hello Vanadium

I spent some time to read your past posts & i'm sure you are an expert in aerospace, even if unfortunatly majority of your posts are biaised (with quite subtlety sometimes) to support obstinately your favorite EFT.

So as it has been/it is still so often a main issue (fighter (low?) observability) could you explain in what,/ in where EFT has any LO design or features ?

Thanks in advance

 

[vanadium]

That crappy mock up meant nothing, why was no european nation building a stealth aircraft instead of EF-2000, Rafael or Gripen? That because they cant, lets face the facts. Europeans always get defensive and jealous and begin justifying it in all possible ways.

Most of the fundamentals of supersonic aerodynamic design, the jet engine, the radar, the first rocket engines, the first RAM (for German subs in WWII BTW) come from Europe as from Europe comes the mathematical foundations to solve the design for stealth. Even the chief designer and boss at Skunk Works during their stealth breakthroughs was a European. The yanks are quite good, they stole an awful lot of intellectual property in Germany after 1945 (like the other victors), they took scientists across the ocean, and learnt a lot. Threw a lot of money at the problems and moved very quickly forward. They were better in those days, I must admit...if I look at the pace of the JSF programme.
So it is not they can´t but rather they did not want and they were blocked, anyhow.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

The Super Hornet aka Super Slow takes an eternity to accelerate to supersonic speed with the afterburners lit. It will supercruise only if you add to it a couple of huge rocket boosters. That thing is a brick!

That is not true, it is an heavy aircraft but the F-414 engine is more powerful than the EF-2000. The EF-2000 has better climb rate only because it had nothing inside in other words its an empty tin can full of promises, no radar or any worth while avionics to carry. It flies very high and if it goes of into space it will all save us an head ache.

I was quite surprised to learn from the Swiss leaked evaluation report (WHAT A SHAME!!!) that Typhoon was measured achieving Mach 1.4 super cruising speed. I was until then of the opinion it was in the M1.15-1.20 area, that is to say in a bracket not tactically significant.
Supercruising at Mach 1.4 becomes instead a very useful military quality and

Why would they come out with something that is not a secret? It is an commercial fighter jet and its only good publicity to show if it can super cruise.

not too far from the initial F-22 performance. The addition of the thrust vectoring nozzles for aircraft trimming in the supersonic domain would probably add a couple of decimal points.


The US are the imperial power of the epoch and probably already on a declining trajectory as all the empires before them. So let them have all these Battle Groups and let them bleed to death, before they realize the insanity of those crazy military budgets.

Not to far from the F-22? So you admit its not as advanced, you guys are always trying to play catch up with the F-22 but yet you cant admit on technological short comings compared to the US fighter. If EU could have done an stealth fighter they would have, you cant tell me 5 nations could not have the budged to build a stealth fighter. Its just technological short comings. There is no AESA radar even now on EF-2000.

I agree, with wasting money on defense. Its not justifiable.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Most of the fundamentals of supersonic aerodynamic design, the jet engine, the radar, the first rocket engines, the first RAM (for German subs in WWII BTW) come from Europe as from Europe comes the mathematical foundations to solve the design for stealth. Even the chief designer and boss at Skunk Works during their stealth breakthroughs was a European. The yanks are quite good, they stole an awful lot of intellectual property in Germany after 1945 (like the other victors), they took scientists across the ocean, and learnt a lot. Threw a lot of money at the problems and moved very quickly forward. They were better in those days, I must admit...if I look at the pace of the JSF programme.
So it is not they can´t but rather they did not want and they were blocked, anyhow.

All this does not mean anything when someone is not keeping pace anymore. Also the Stealth angles was done by a Russian scientist.

Discovering something means nothing, moveing on is what people remember. Human memory is very short and credits are very rarely given. The first iron rocket in battle was used in India by Tipu Sultan against the british and that is how it went to Europe when British took it and later Napoleon used it, the gun powder, iron, copper,modern numbers and all early mathematics come from asia. No one talks of all that as a premise for being more intelligent in the past. Same way it has moved on from Europe to the US. Why blame them now.