Know Your 'Rafale'

[Armand2REP]

I am always generous towards my French neighbours...

Not really, it was six weeks to take Paris and another two years to creep into the rest of the country. Just to be fair, Austria didn't even put up a fight.

 

[Cola]

Come on man. Please get the hint already.

Sry, don't deal in hints and obviously I'm not familiar with Indian selection process, so I ask.
European practice is opposite and you usually get a comity which consists of military personnel, economists and politicians, to evaluate bids on all of those accounts.
Anyway, thx for answering my question...that was really all I wanted to know.

As I recall, we already had this discussion with Rafale rating at 1.4M with A2A loadout and 1.1M for Eurofighter.

Hm, last time I saw Dassault tied M1.4 figure in dry to Rafale, was in the same sentence with 90kN engines, not current ones...any docs that suggest contrary?

Blacking out isn't a fault of the aircraft...

Actually, it isn't exactly true...it's very dependable on FBW software setting and g-onset in particular.

Fully aligned with you: as is today supercruise in EF not tactically relevant. With thrust growth and TVC it moves into military usefulness. Supercruise was not a design objective in EF but just a pleasant outcome.

Not quite so.
Speed is crucial for interceptor (fighter) aircraft, since it extends its capability of creating temporary numerical superiority, which is usually determining factor in the air combat outcome.

 

[vanadium]

Hm, last time I saw Dassault tied M1.4 figure in dry to Rafale, was in the same sentence with 90kN engines, not current ones...any docs that suggest contrary?[/QUOTE]

That´s a midsummer-night´s dream!

 

[p2prada]

Fully aligned with you: as is today supercruise in EF not tactically relevant. With thrust growth and TVC it moves into military usefulness. Supercruise was not a design objective in EF but just a pleasant outcome.

Supercruise is truly important for a stealthy mode of operations as it reduces the IR signature, but less so for a more conventional fighter. The lack of supercruise in JSF (and really any meaningful supersonic performance) is therefore a severe handicap for its stealthy operation.

Supercruise is an effective way to hide IR emissions. I was more specifically talking about radar emissions.

Actually Lockheed propaganda states that the F-35A is six times more capable in A-A than the a/c you mention. Except for the Typhoon...probably only because the RAF is a founding member of the JSF project!

According to LM, the F-22 is supposed to be 10-15 times as capable as the F-15, quite far fetched IMO. According to the IAF chief, the PAKFA will be between 100-200% more capable than the existing MKI.

I am just glad we aren't there in all the JSF muddle.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Ok can some aviation expert tell me does the typhoon have any american manufactured parts going in it .Last time the americans imposed sanctions the IAF had to ground its entire Sea King fleet(UK made in between) due to lack of spares.

I think the decision to choose Rafale is more on realpolitik rather than about the plane.The French never try to be our conscience keepers unlike the British and Americans who raise the specter of sanctions in a drop of a hat

 

[p2prada]

Ok can some aviation expert tell me does the typhoon have any american manufactured parts going in it .Last time the americans imposed sanctions the IAF had to ground its entire Sea King fleet(UK made in between) due to lack of spares.

I think the decision to choose Rafale is more on realpolitik rather than about the plane.The French never try to be our conscience keepers unlike the British and Americans who raise the specter of sanctions in a drop of a hat

There are a lot of American parts. I had a list and I lost it.

India already provides spares support to Russia for their Flankers. India can do the same with Typhoon or Rafale. We can sanction others I guess.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

First of do not argue for the sake of argument, if i am wrong i have no problem that IAF got Dassult and i wish to be corrected. I hope that is the attitude you bring.

Neither have supercruise capability. Other than that Rafale can do the same as EF. Both go above Mach 1 with limited store without afterburner. Not a big deal.

Both Wike and Combat aircraft claim EF has super cruise and your the first person to say its not a big deal, to get to your traget faster and without dumping fuel in the after burner, increases range and speed by a huge margin.

Unimportant.

It is important because it is linked the engine power, effecinecy of aerodynamics and service ceiling ability.

The lesser it is the better it flies at higher altitudes. But Rafale is meant for low altitude flight because of wing and inlet designs. EF is actually more or less the same as Rafales. Not a big deal.

I suppose that is right.

Rafale is lighter by a ton or two.

That does not matter when EF has more thrust and has better load carrying ablity and service ceiling.

The pilots have physical limitations at such high altitudes. If required the MKI can go upto 75000 feet. Pugachev took the MKI to that height himself.

That is not how service ceiling is calculated, If a jet engine exceeds it's designed altitude the engine will stall due to lack of oxygen, forcing the plane to yield to the law of gravity, The Mig-29 and Su-30Mki even though the service ceiling may say 55,000 ft, if the plane can attain a vertical speed of 1000mph at 40,000 ft, it may travel ballistically to 80,000ft or more useing its momentum. At that altitude it is essentially as aerodynamic as a rock and it falls until it returns to a low enough altitude to fly again but that is not sustainable. EF engine has a better design and more thrust allowing it to Sustainits flight at 65,000ft with load. The Rafael can not cruise sustainable at 65,000ft, that is the difference.

Nothing really. The deal was independent of political interference. Dassault won only because their bid was cheaper.

I hope so and i hope Sarkosy did not interfere.

 

[Iamanidiot]

There are a lot of American parts. I had a list and I lost it.

India already provides spares support to Russia for their Flankers. India can do the same with Typhoon or Rafale. We can sanction others I guess.

How does the Rafale fare when it comes to American parts in the plane?

 

[SpArK]

Ok can some aviation expert tell me does the typhoon have any american manufactured parts going in it .Last time the americans imposed sanctions the IAF had to ground its entire Sea King fleet(UK made in between) due to lack of spares.

I think the decision to choose Rafale is more on realpolitik rather than about the plane.The French never try to be our conscience keepers unlike the British and Americans who raise the specter of sanctions in a drop of a hat

There are plenty .. chcek the list

Eurofighter Typhoon - program supplier guide

 

[Iamanidiot]

There are plenty .. chcek the list

Eurofighter Typhoon - program supplier guide

good enough for me I won't touch the plane with a barge pole a plane useless in times of war whatever its technical greatness is as good as not having a plane.

Can anyone do the same thing for Rafale .How of the program has american components

 

[Armand2REP]

Hm, last time I saw Dassault tied M1.4 figure in dry to Rafale, was in the same sentence with 90kN engines, not current ones...any docs that suggest contrary?]

That´s a midsummer-night´s dream!

Dream becomes reality...

The naval version (Rafale M) can supercruise up to Mach 1.4 while carrying six air-to-air missiles (MBDA MICA).

http://siae.netdirect.fr/2011/sites/actu/docs/3-vol/fiches2011/Rafale_G-B.pdf

 

[Godless-Kafir]

As I recall, we already had this discussion with Rafale rating at 1.4M with A2A loadout and 1.1M for Eurofighter.

So your saying with AoA the Rafale can super cruise?

Rafale reached Mach 2 in testing, set it at 1.8 so as not to overheat the SPECTRA AESA arrays on the surface of the aircraft. The friction of Mach 2 speeds can damage them.

What is the range of the Spectra AESA?

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

When your aircraft is capable of carrying less, then yes. I suppose?

Lighter aircraft requires less thrust. It has the same T/W.

but the rate of climb seems to be slightly in favour of EF!

He must have used his diamond dick on Sonia according to Swammy.

Swammy never said that or did he!!
because i trust swami!

 

[SpArK]

good enough for me I won't touch the plane with a barge pole a plane useless in times of war whatever its technical greatness is as good as not having a plane.

Can anyone do the same thing for Rafale .How of the program has american components

Same site has it...

logically procuring stuff spread across europe and beyond would have been a nightmare. Ive been saying this all along.

Rafale is and was an excellent choice.

 

[Armand2REP]

So your saying with AoA the Rafale can super cruise?

With 6X Mica it can supercruise at Mach 1.4

What is the range of the Spectra AESA?

It isn't a stand-off jammer, it is self protection.

When your aircraft is capable of carrying less, then yes. I suppose?

Rafale has a 21,000lb load... so whose is less?

but the rate of climb seems to be slightly in favour of EF!

Oh no, it can do one thing better!

Swammy never said that or did he!!
because i trust swami!

He is the conspiracy theorist... not me.

 

[utubekhiladi]

can rafale fly using diesel?

 

[Param]

can rafale fly using diesel?

No only Petrol.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

With 6X Mica it can supercruise at Mach 1.4

Can i have a legit source to this claim? Why is the Wike page not updated then?

It isn't a stand-off jammer, it is self protection.

So all those recivers at the side of the aircraft fall of at high speed? :Shock:

Rafale has a 21,000lb load... so whose is less?

Guess you got that one right, Raf does carry more.

Oh no, it can do one thing better!

Also better service cealing.

He is the conspiracy theorist... not me.

I am a supporter or swami at times.
Sorry Sarkozy has aids!!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

can rafale fly using diesel?

Offcourse it can, ask Armand. In france they have a Peugeot diesel engine Rafael.

There is nothing France has not done yet.

 

[SPIEZ]

He is the conspiracy theorist... not me.

Might be, some of what he said has gone to the court and been given the center stage. If you have proof you are welcome to criticize, otherwise don't throw ur own theories !

 

[utubekhiladi]

Indian F3 rafale may get ARM, KH-31P is not going to be on Rafale..

Under MBDA :
ALARM (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

can R-77 be used as anti-radiation missile? because R-77 has Active radar homing guidance system.