Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

True, Dassault top brass are idiots of the highest levels.
The MMRCA was made in such a way that the govt has to discuss with L1 only, if the discussions with L1 get stalled there was no option to discuss with L2.

Dassault tried to put various conditions and objections like,, we cannot accept HAL and wanted Reliance to do the job, but as per RFP they had signed to get into the tender, they had agreed that HAL would be the lead integrator. Also did they not know how much time HAL takes etc? Dassault has worked closely with HAL before. Also Dassault did not want to gurantee the 108 planes that were assembled by HAL, but then HAL had agreed to gurantee the planes to Dassault, who then in turn could do so to GoI.
Dassault did not want to negotiate the prices. they knew that IAF liked their plane (even NAK Browne had gone far to fix the various "objections"pertaining to LCC) they knew that the GoI had no choice but to discuss with L1 only. IAF will also be pressuring GoI for Rafale (you can see many statements by Arup Raha (there is no plan B but Rafale)

Dassault believed that all these factors will ensure that Rafale deal has to be signed even if they dont negotiate. The UPA calculating the various costs, realised that if they signed the deal, it would be a big scam (if 36 planes cost about 7 billion, you can calculate the price for 126 ) also do add the price of the lines The cost would be near about 40 billion or so. So UPA thought to put the politcal hot potato to NDA. NDA did see the situation and relaised that its impossible to sign the deal for 126, and they thought outside the box and addressed the "urgent need" So yes, its Dassaults arrogance and Greed which cost them the deal.

already discussed. You can't imagine Dassault not eager to seal a very big deal while the Rafale hasn't logged any export contract at that time. Dassault top brass are all but idiots.

 

[Holy Triad]

Guys, pappu got off guard

 

[BON PLAN]

True, Dassault top brass are idiots of the highest levels.
The MMRCA was made in such a way that the govt has to discuss with L1 only, if the discussions with L1 get stalled there was no option to discuss with L2.

Dassault tried to put various conditions and objections like,, we cannot accept HAL and wanted Reliance to do the job, but as per RFP they had signed to get into the tender, they had agreed that HAL would be the lead integrator. Also did they not know how much time HAL takes etc? Dassault has worked closely with HAL before. Also Dassault did not want to gurantee the 108 planes that were assembled by HAL, but then HAL had agreed to gurantee the planes to Dassault, who then in turn could do so to GoI.
Dassault did not want to negotiate the prices. they knew that IAF liked their plane (even NAK Browne had gone far to fix the various "objections"pertaining to LCC) they knew that the GoI had no choice but to discuss with L1 only. IAF will also be pressuring GoI for Rafale (you can see many statements by Arup Raha (there is no plan B but Rafale)

Dassault believed that all these factors will ensure that Rafale deal has to be signed even if they dont negotiate. The UPA calculating the various costs, realised that if they signed the deal, it would be a big scam (if 36 planes cost about 7 billion, you can calculate the price for 126 ) also do add the price of the lines The cost would be near about 40 billion or so. So UPA thought to put the politcal hot potato to NDA. NDA did see the situation and relaised that its impossible to sign the deal for 126, and they thought outside the box and addressed the "urgent need" So yes, its Dassaults arrogance and Greed which cost them the deal.

:blah: :blah::blah:

 

[Armand2REP]

True, Dassault top brass are idiots of the highest levels.
The MMRCA was made in such a way that the govt has to discuss with L1 only, if the discussions with L1 get stalled there was no option to discuss with L2.

Dassault tried to put various conditions and objections like,, we cannot accept HAL and wanted Reliance to do the job, but as per RFP they had signed to get into the tender, they had agreed that HAL would be the lead integrator. Also did they not know how much time HAL takes etc? Dassault has worked closely with HAL before. Also Dassault did not want to gurantee the 108 planes that were assembled by HAL, but then HAL had agreed to gurantee the planes to Dassault, who then in turn could do so to GoI.
Dassault did not want to negotiate the prices. they knew that IAF liked their plane (even NAK Browne had gone far to fix the various "objections"pertaining to LCC) they knew that the GoI had no choice but to discuss with L1 only. IAF will also be pressuring GoI for Rafale (you can see many statements by Arup Raha (there is no plan B but Rafale)

Dassault believed that all these factors will ensure that Rafale deal has to be signed even if they dont negotiate. The UPA calculating the various costs, realised that if they signed the deal, it would be a big scam (if 36 planes cost about 7 billion, you can calculate the price for 126 ) also do add the price of the lines The cost would be near about 40 billion or so. So UPA thought to put the politcal hot potato to NDA. NDA did see the situation and relaised that its impossible to sign the deal for 126, and they thought outside the box and addressed the "urgent need" So yes, its Dassaults arrogance and Greed which cost them the deal.

The fault lies with the inefficiencies of HAL. When Dassualt submitted the work estimate that came back 2.7X higher than expected with no guarantee the entire process was DOA. It would have been the same result if Eurofighter or Gripen had been selected. The companies have to make money, not eat up all of their profit and go into the red fixing defects that they are not at fault for making.

Sitharaman said that "HAL was in no position to give the guarantee."

https://scroll.in/latest/894302/raf...utics-could-not-provide-guarantee-sithamraman

That is why selecting someone else will not yield a different result. HAL is not up to the job.

A recent committee finding headed by Kharge was published that says...

As of July 2018, the IAF has only got nine out of its requirement of 200 fighters and 20 trainer aircraft envisaged in the Air Staff Requirements, the panel added.

"HAL has not been able to provide IAF with even a single production standard trainer aircraft till date. Further, since HAL could not augment its capacity in line with the demand of the IAF, the IAF will have to depend on imported aircraft for a longer time, given its dwindling squadron strength," the panel said.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

The fault lies with the inefficiencies of HAL. When Dassualt submitted the work estimate that came back 2.7X higher than expected with no guarantee the entire process was DOA. It would have been the same result if Eurofighter or Gripen had been selected. The companies have to make money, not eat up all of their profit and go into the red fixing defects that they are not at fault for making.

Sitharaman said that "HAL was in no position to give the guarantee."

https://scroll.in/latest/894302/raf...utics-could-not-provide-guarantee-sithamraman

That is why selecting someone else will not yield a different result. HAL is not up to the job.

A recent committee finding headed by Kharge was published that says...

As of July 2018, the IAF has only got nine out of its requirement of 200 fighters and 20 trainer aircraft envisaged in the Air Staff Requirements, the panel added.

"HAL has not been able to provide IAF with even a single production standard trainer aircraft till date. Further, since HAL could not augment its capacity in line with the demand of the IAF, the IAF will have to depend on imported aircraft for a longer time, given its dwindling squadron strength," the panel said.

I know dude you are french CREME DE LA CREME.
But your country is a SERIOUSLY ANOTHER FUCKED UP COUNTRY.
what @smestarz said is correct to many extent.
YOUR DASSAULT EVEN SAID THEY COULD INTEGRATE KAVERI ENGINE ON THAT THING.
You know that thing.
Don't worry in future lots of things will happen CRUDE BUSINESS WAY.
And your dassault and that fatso macron are equally responsible for the mess.

 

[BON PLAN]

I know dude you are french CREME DE LA CREME.
But your country is a SERIOUSLY ANOTHER FUCKED UP COUNTRY.
what @smestarz said is correct to many extent.
YOUR DASSAULT EVEN SAID THEY COULD INTEGRATE KAVERI ENGINE ON THAT THING.
You know that thing.
Don't worry in future lots of things will happen CRUDE BUSINESS WAY.
And your dassault and that fatso macron are equally responsible for the mess.

You understand so few bro, that it is quite incredible...

French industry is the sole, with US and Russia to master from A to Z a top class fighter. So YES, we are among the CREME OF THE CREME aerospace industry.

KAVERI? It's the SAFRAN job to make it airworthy. After that maybe it is possible to fit it in a Dassault product. All that with no help from India's HAL , fully incompetent.

Don't put Macron in your mess : He is our president for only 18 months. So well after MMRCA collase or GtoG Deal.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

You understand so few bro, that it is quite incredible...

French industry is the sole, with US and Russia to master from A to Z a top class fighter. So YES, we are among the CREME OF THE CREME aerospace industry.

KAVERI? It's the SAFRAN job to make it airworthy. After that maybe it is possible to fit it in a Dassault product. All that with no help from India's HAL , fully incompetent.

Don't put Macron in your mess : He is our president for only 18 months. So well after MMRCA collase or GtoG Deal.

YOU GUYS ENTERED IN OUR MESS.
YOUR COUNTRY ENTERED IN THIS MESS.
So, don't act like you don't know anything.
We are here on the verge of losing a good PM because of your fatso.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

YOU GUYS ENTERED IN OUR MESS.
YOUR COUNTRY ENTERED IN THIS MESS.
So, don't act like you don't know anything.
We are here on the verge of losing a good PM because of your fatso.

Stop embarrassing yourself and quit this meaningless argument

 

[MrPresident]

YOU GUYS ENTERED IN OUR MESS.
YOUR COUNTRY ENTERED IN THIS MESS.
So, don't act like you don't know anything.
We are here on the verge of losing a good PM because of your fatso.

Dassault is here to do business..name calling of a friendly nations highest leader only shows immaturity. why blame them, blame pappu who is using in defence deals as political issue.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Dassault is here to do business..name calling of a friendly nations highest leader only shows immaturity. why blame them, blame pappu who is using in defence deals as political issue.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Ya, but cannot we accept these things from them?
They are entering our political fiasco and inadvertently helping the enemies.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Stop embarrassing yourself and quit this meaningless argument

MEANINGLESS ARGUMENT, this argument has caused problems.
You do know there is a group out there who can influence the votes.
I MEAN COMMON MAN.
Here we do know that this deal was the need of hour, but how you can say that to COMMON MAN who cannot here us type of people because of CONGRESS AND LUTYENS MEDIA.

 

[Sancho]

Bad Rafale deal according to you & for IAF its game changer!.

Wrong, since IAF itself stated that 36 are not enough and since IAF itself stated that they wanted an MMRCA deal, not necessarily Rafale, just as IAF itself stated that they wanted the single engine MMRCA RFI, not MMRCA 2.0.

So the facts on the ground of what IAF wanted and what the government gave them, proves that the Rafale deal is bad and that the U turn to MMRCA 2.0 is another waste of time. You might not like it, but can't deny it either.

 

[MrPresident]

Ya, but cannot we accept these things from them?
They are entering our political fiasco and inadvertently helping the enemies.

Nope they arent, these are dragged in by our own oldest political party.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Nope they arent, these are dragged in by our own oldest political party.

Well macron words lifted fire in these suckers.
Even if he retracted his words if I am right.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Can somebody give me the full link of macron conversation with that french media house.
I wil be thankful.

 

[Sancho]

Please sancho.now you are bullshitting without proof.

Even the NDA government admits that the MMRCA was cancelled because of Dassaults non compliance to the RFP, but people that want to remain in denial, of course prefer to close their eyes on facts.

 

[Sancho]

already discussed. You can't imagine Dassault not eager to seal a very big deal while the Rafale hasn't logged any export contract at that time. Dassault top brass are all but idiots.

Lol, they messed up a major deal in Brazil, because of poor ToT proposal and high costs, although Brazilian government was pro France at the time.

They messed up a major deal in the UAE, because they proposed an unworkable commercial offer.

They messed up the MMRCA, because they wanted their way in the negotiations or no way.

And the same now happened in Belgium too, where they proposed a deal outside of the official tender, which again shows their way or no way.

Dassaults is stupid, because they put their ego ahead of what is the best for Rafale the fighter. They could had easily 200+ orders from UAE and India alone, which tells a lot about their understanding of making deals and securing the future of the product.

The simple fact, that the EF consortium were selling an inferior product in higher numbers for all these years, tells a lot too.

 

[Sancho]

Good look on operational loads during anti IS strikes and good to see France not running away from fighting IS and taking responsibility in the region.

 

[BON PLAN]

YOU GUYS ENTERED IN OUR MESS.
YOUR COUNTRY ENTERED IN THIS MESS.
So, don't act like you don't know anything.
We are here on the verge of losing a good PM because of your fatso.

Poor guy...
So young but already brain sick...

 

[BON PLAN]

Well macron words lifted fire in these suckers.
Even if he retracted his words if I am right.

Macron or Hollande? You absolutely can't compare them.