Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Wrong, it depends on who is responsible for the mistake. If Dassault didn't provided HAL with the necessary tools to do the prodiction in time, it's logically Dassaults mistake and Dassaults should be held accountable!

The best tools of the world in a neanderthal hands goes nowhere...

 

[ersakthivel]

If at all JPC is to be formed to investigate rafale deal,..

First thing to look into is to the rejection of proposed Snecma GTRE jv for kaveri, by a committe headed by Air Marshal Matheswaran by Cong govt,

This happened just months after Rafale was declared winner in MMRCA.


Now after ten years snecma gtre jv for kaveri is being revived as part of the offset for 36 rafale deal by modi govt.


This goes to show who is wallowing in scams , & who is negotiating with nation's strategic interest of having a working (even if it is 1990s tech level) jet engine within a fixed time period.

If french modernize kaveri and update its thrust enough to power AMCA, then they will surely ask for a few more squadrons of rafales in IAF.

Which is a win win deal for india and France,

But a disastrous loss for US and other European fighter makers,

Because it cements a commercially profitable french indian mil aviation industry combo,

Which doesn't use critical US components.


I knew the new govt is transacting rafale deal with national interest in mind the moment GTRE safran jv was announced.

So Rahul Gandhi slinging mud on it on behalf of losers in natural.

Because lot of Western players will loose billions, if this info french co operation succeeds.

I am sure within a few years indiaImay sign a jv with Russia on FGFA front.

So we don't really need 120 plus rafales.

40 extra sukhois , super sukhoi upgrades , teja mk1 A, mk2, along with 36 +possibly another 36 rafales can

Satisfy IAF needs till FGFA, goes into production.

If we get a jv kaveri with an engine TWR of 9 plus, then AMCA wil hv a indigenous back up engine, plus teja mk2 also can use it.

If we put a price to this advantage then odi's Rafale deal is lot cheaper and doubly beneficial for IAF.

 

[Prashant12]

Prominent middle man for US defence & fighter plane companies has apparently paid huge sums of money (courtesy his benefactors in US ) to netas, portals,journos & activists to scuttle #RafaleDeal - govt should inquire who is on their payrolls & trying to derail the deal

 

[WolfPack86]

I hate media people like any thing they are always on pay roll from foreign countries.

 

[ersakthivel]

It wasn't even an issue of corruption. When the estimate was forwarded to HAL they quoted 2.7X the man hours required to make it than Dassault. That made it too expensive which is ultimately why it was decided to make them in France. If HAL could have matched the man hours MMRCA for all 126 - 18 would be built by HAL right now, that and Dassault required HAL warranty their own work. HAL could neither meet the productivity schedule or the guarantee.

To put it more precisely,

The Cong govt was never serious about upgrading HAL Assembly line tech,
&

Employing better HRD practices & outsourcing, that will help HAL to match Dassault man hour.

Cong was just window dressing the L1 concept in MMRCA, with no real motivation to bring HAL upto scratch.

Even tejas got a new tech assembly line only after modi took over.

That's why in my opinion,

from mother of all fighter contracts MMRCA wobbled into urgent gap filling exercise for IAF.

 

[vampyrbladez]

To put it more precisely,

The Cong govt was never serious about upgrading HAL Assembly line tech,
&

Employing better HRD practices & outsourcing, that will help HAL to match Dassault man hour.

Cong was just window dressing the L1 concept in MMRCA, with no real motivation to bring HAL upto scratch.

Even tejas got a new tech assembly line only after modi took over.

That's why in my opinion,

from mother of all fighter contracts MMRCA wobbled into urgent gap filling exercise for IAF.

The deal is clean. All this is a spin by US MiC to derail procurement and then force India to buy obsolete F 16 and F 18 SH.

This is Congress strategy using foreign influence. The globalist US cartel are trying to overthrow Modi govt.

https://www.republicworld.com/india...-to-be-rahul-gandhis-poll-strategist-for-2019

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

The deal is clean. All this is a spin by US MiC to derail procurement and then force India to buy obsolete F 16 and F 18 SH.

This is Congress strategy using foreign influence. The globalist US cartel are trying to overthrow Modi govt.

https://www.republicworld.com/india...-to-be-rahul-gandhis-poll-strategist-for-2019

Modi govt has issued a major threat - that can overturn world order and collapse middle east. So, it is no longer possible to overthrow BJP, no matter what noise these people make. Even if these people come close to campaigning against Modi, there will be ammunition like Ram Mandir and direct campaign. If you notice, Modi has been avoiding a direct campaign for tougher times and if tough time comes, there is no reason to hold back.

Trust RSS to get results by the policy - one more than the enemy. The social media campaign has been extremely effective and has turned the tides of people across India in favour of Modi. The JIO and cheaper internet has caused whatsapp craze everywhere which in turn gets the results I need.

 

[Prashant12]

Top Congress leader met US arms companies before Rafale storm arrived?

HIGHLIGHTS
Modi government sources said it is difficult to understand why the Congress leader held meetings with arms manufacturers 'more so, when he is not part of the government'

In what could bring a new angle to the Rafale controversy, national security sources suggest that a top Congres leader had held meetings with US arms manufacturing firms days before accusations of a scam started flying.

“The Rafale deal was initialled between India and France on September 23, 2016. But the Congress began to raise objections only in November 2017 in the run-up to the Gujarat elections. Pertinently, a top Congress leader, on a US tour just months before the accusations were made, met top executives of US defence firms,” a top government source told MyNation, requesting anonymity.

Also read: Modi sarkar's Rafales cheaper than Sonia regime's: Each aircraft costs Rs 59 crore less

MyNation is withholding the names of the leader and the companies as they have not responded to our queries regarding the meeting. MyNation had sent the queries to the Congress leader and the US companies separately two days ago.

The meetings of the Congress leader were arranged by a party member who has had a long association with the US aviation industry, according to the source.

Government sources said it is difficult to understand why the Congress leader held meetings with arms manufacturers “more so, when he is not part of the government".

Also read — Rahul Gandhi, here’s why Rafale is a bigger UPA scandal than Bofors: A simple explainer

“The Congress leader, in the meetings, was accompanied by a number of young party leaders along with a senior US politician,” the sources said.

The government, it is learnt, is also analysing the role of an Indian corporate leader in the defence industry, who is closely related to a senior Opposition leader. This Opposition has been holding media conferences against the government on the Rafale deal.


https://www.mynation.com/news/delhi...er-indira-gandhi-international-airport-ped5k3

 

[vampyrbladez]

Top Congress leader met US arms companies before Rafale storm arrived?

HIGHLIGHTS
Modi government sources said it is difficult to understand why the Congress leader held meetings with arms manufacturers 'more so, when he is not part of the government'

In what could bring a new angle to the Rafale controversy, national security sources suggest that a top Congres leader had held meetings with US arms manufacturing firms days before accusations of a scam started flying.

“The Rafale deal was initialled between India and France on September 23, 2016. But the Congress began to raise objections only in November 2017 in the run-up to the Gujarat elections. Pertinently, a top Congress leader, on a US tour just months before the accusations were made, met top executives of US defence firms,” a top government source told MyNation, requesting anonymity.

Also read: Modi sarkar's Rafales cheaper than Sonia regime's: Each aircraft costs Rs 59 crore less

MyNation is withholding the names of the leader and the companies as they have not responded to our queries regarding the meeting. MyNation had sent the queries to the Congress leader and the US companies separately two days ago.

The meetings of the Congress leader were arranged by a party member who has had a long association with the US aviation industry, according to the source.

Government sources said it is difficult to understand why the Congress leader held meetings with arms manufacturers “more so, when he is not part of the government".

Also read — Rahul Gandhi, here’s why Rafale is a bigger UPA scandal than Bofors: A simple explainer

“The Congress leader, in the meetings, was accompanied by a number of young party leaders along with a senior US politician,” the sources said.

The government, it is learnt, is also analysing the role of an Indian corporate leader in the defence industry, who is closely related to a senior Opposition leader. This Opposition has been holding media conferences against the government on the Rafale deal.


https://www.mynation.com/news/delhi...er-indira-gandhi-international-airport-ped5k3

If this is true, UPA/Congress just lost the 2019 elections.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Can this be proven!?

Now, I don't mean just some tweets and no concrete backing.....yay we've done it kinda proof.

A proof something similar to Rahul Gandhi's meeting with Chinese before Doklam!?

If we can, what would be the BJP's response/answer for delaying such incident to come to light!!??

If we can't prove it, then let's not touch it. Rahul and his team will have enough ways to counter it. Better put that energy on something else.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Can this be proven!?

Now, I don't mean just some tweets and no concrete backing.....yay we've done it kinda proof.

A proof something similar to Rahul Gandhi's meeting with Chinese before Doklam!?

If we can, what would be the BJP's response/answer for delaying such incident to come to light!!??

If we can't prove it, then let's not touch it. Rahul and his team will have enough ways to counter it. Better put that energy on something else.

My nation is pro BJP. This is leak deliberately by intelligence agencies. After this if Congi volume doesn't tone down then proof will probably be released.

 

[Flame Thrower]

My nation is pro BJP. This is leak deliberately by intelligence agencies. After this if Congi volume doesn't tone down then proof will probably be released.

I am pro BJP too, but BJP is at a disadvantage.

MSM had repeatedly shown Rahul Gandhi's questioning BJP on Rafale. Now he is questioning Anil Ambani. Hech even France PM had to asked Rahul to stop shitting. How many days did media cover this!?

Do you think MSM will follow the above tweets!? Forget MSM, even BJP is not following those tweets, so I think those are nothing more than stories.

If proof is released then BJP may have better chance countering Rafale nonsense, but then again I don't trust our media. Our media has shown flawless victory of Doklam as near defeat.

Thus I rest my case

 

[ersakthivel]

I am pro BJP too, but BJP is at a disadvantage.

MSM had repeatedly shown Rahul Gandhi's questioning BJP on Rafale. Now he is questioning Anil Ambani. Hech even France PM had to asked Rahul to stop shitting. How many days did media cover this!?

Do you think MSM will follow the above tweets!? Forget MSM, even BJP is not following those tweets, so I think those are nothing more than stories.

If proof is released then BJP may have better chance countering Rafale nonsense, but then again I don't trust our media. Our media has shown flawless victory of Doklam as near defeat.

Thus I rest my case

Raga is depending on guys who cant use smartphones to know the truth ,to sell his crap on reliance Dassault issue.

He thinks 80℅ of indians wont know the truth, "that reliance makes zero components for IAF rafale & only making components for Dassault civilian plane falcon",

He thinks 80℅ won't know the significance of snecma Gtre jv , which is a critical offset for IAF rafale deal to be executed by DPSUs by Modi, (same was linked by Cong in 2009 with a flimsiest of pretext).




RaGa also thinks with his poodle,Pidi- presstitute army in MSM, he can sell his lies forever on rafale deal.


Its like the attitude shown by, many defence analysts , import dalals, retired good for nothing IAF Marshal types on Tejas.(calling it three legged cheetah, Late combat Aircraft, Mig 21 ++, etc).

They are yet to recover from their shell shock after reading PIB release on tejas IOC 2.


In the same way, Modi will start his electionathan run in a couple of months on rafale deal.

Like they did in 2014, Raga, MSM will end up with tons of eggs on their face in 2019 also.

Modi is the man who sold his bone crushing demonetisation, GST drive to electorate with success.


Blasting MSM & RaGa on their Rafale lies is like eating plates of sweets for campaign flight profile Modi.

Stage is being set with booking Dynasty Damad on His real estate deal,

Just last night RaGa's position presstitute army was at a loss ,even to cover this small tactical counter movement.

They are never going to win the ,"Close combat, Dog fight" on," rafale lies war ", with a peerless mass communication combat fighter called Modi,

Debris will be seen all around on election results day coverage in 2019.

Meanwhile at that time stealth fighter RaGa would be taking a long range (2 to 3 months duration) rest & recuperation sortie to Europe,

ROFL.

 

[BON PLAN]

If at all JPC is to be formed to investigate rafale deal,..

First thing to look into is to the rejection of proposed Snecma GTRE jv for kaveri, by a committe headed by Air Marshal Matheswaran by Cong govt,

This happened just months after Rafale was declared winner in MMRCA.


Now after ten years snecma gtre jv for kaveri is being revived as part of the offset for 36 rafale deal by modi govt.


This goes to show who is wallowing in scams , & who is negotiating with nation's strategic interest of having a working (even if it is 1990s tech level) jet engine within a fixed time period.

If french modernize kaveri and update its thrust enough to power AMCA, then they will surely ask for a few more squadrons of rafales in IAF.

Which is a win win deal for india and France,

But a disastrous loss for US and other European fighter makers,

Because it cements a commercially profitable french indian mil aviation industry combo,

Which doesn't use critical US components.


I knew the new govt is transacting rafale deal with national interest in mind the moment GTRE safran jv was announced.

So Rahul Gandhi slinging mud on it on behalf of losers in natural.

Because lot of Western players will loose billions, if this info french co operation succeeds.

I am sure within a few years indiaImay sign a jv with Russia on FGFA front.

So we don't really need 120 plus rafales.

40 extra sukhois , super sukhoi upgrades , teja mk1 A, mk2, along with 36 +possibly another 36 rafales can

Satisfy IAF needs till FGFA, goes into production.

If we get a jv kaveri with an engine TWR of 9 plus, then AMCA wil hv a indigenous back up engine, plus teja mk2 also can use it.

If we put a price to this advantage then odi's Rafale deal is lot cheaper and doubly beneficial for IAF.

Rafale and SU30 (even upgraded) are mot made for the same job. You can't compare it.
And SU cost a lot in support. Far more than Rafale.
And SU30 will always have a truck RCS.

Just ask you why IAF want Rafale so much...

 

[BON PLAN]

To put it more precisely,

The Cong govt was never serious about upgrading HAL Assembly line tech,
&

Employing better HRD practices & outsourcing, that will help HAL to match Dassault man hour.

Cong was just window dressing the L1 concept in MMRCA, with no real motivation to bring HAL upto scratch.

Even tejas got a new tech assembly line only after modi took over.

That's why in my opinion,

from mother of all fighter contracts MMRCA wobbled into urgent gap filling exercise for IAF.

The indian government probably think that HAL is too heavy, too bureaucratic, too lazy.

The Rafale deal was also a temptative to create a private company so as to bench mark HAL. And Dassault NEVER put its money in a desperate project : it will be a sucess. SO HAL will have a strong challenger, for the sake of India !

 

[BON PLAN]

IN ONE YEAR THE FIRST RAFALE WILL LAND IN INDIA.

IN A FEW MONTHS FIRST INDIAN PILOTS WILL BE TRAINED. Some very enthousiast returns will came. That will be the end of that low political story.

 

[ersakthivel]

Rafale and SU30 (even upgraded) are mot made for the same job. You can't compare it.
And SU cost a lot in support. Far more than Rafale.
And SU30 will always have a truck RCS.

Just ask you why IAF want Rafale so much...

May be,

But air forces that use su 30 mki, rate it good enough for the job it does, in the environment they operate.

That's what I meant. Rafale has the edge in few challenging missions.

Su 30 mki has its own strengths to rely on.

 

[ersakthivel]

The indian government probably think that HAL is too heavy, too bureaucratic, too lazy.

The Rafale deal was also a temptative to create a private company so as to bench mark HAL. And Dassault NEVER put its money in a desperate project : it will be a sucess. SO HAL will have a strong challenger, for the sake of India !

Present govt is also backing HAL to build 300 odd tejas variants,
A new state of the art production line is opened for tejas in bangalore with 12 per yr capacity.

And they are contemplating setting up another tejas production line in coimbatore,Sulur TN.


plus 40 more new Su 30 mkis in another HAL line.

So HAL has no complaints about lack of backing from the govt.

It was the previous UPA govt , which couldn't put its money where it's mouth was.

MMRCA was done without realising whether HAL is up to scratch in producing rafales at a fast pace , by previous govt.

Without doing that, by backing HAL with capital& technology, congress govt was just lip servicing the cause of HAL, & USED it asa peg to hang their MMRCA failure.

 

[BON PLAN]

May be,

But air forces that use su 30 mki, rate it good enough for the job it does, in the environment they operate.

That's what I meant. Rafale has the edge in few challenging missions.

Su 30 mki has its own strengths to rely on.

Absolutely.
Su was a very good choice. In air to air it is very impressive.
Rafale is the good choice of today.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

May be,

But air forces that use su 30 mki, rate it good enough for the job it does, in the environment they operate.

That's what I meant. Rafale has the edge in few challenging missions.

Su 30 mki has its own strengths to rely on.

Su30 MKI is superior to rafale in many cases. The software and EW upgrades could always have been done in Su30 MKI too. These are not excuses to buy Rafale as an import. Tomorrow, in case of war, the plane that will be needed the most is the plane that will be made in India, not imports like Rafale.

Along with Tejas MK2 coming in 2025, the combo of Tejas MK2 and Su30 can work wonders and surpass the need for rafale altogether. Since the last rafale is being delivered only in 2023, there is not much time difference between the arrival of Tejas MK2 and Rafale. Rafale may have other things which were needed by India like meteor missile, other secretive deals etc. It is not the rafale that is important but the other components of the deal.