Know Your 'Rafale'

[Sancho]

So a plane carrying 2 or 3 SCALP does the same job than one with a sole cruise ?

Lol, yes of course =>

Libya, Scalp strike on Hun Air base
The French Mod has reported that the french Air Force and Navy have conducted a join long range scalp strike on an unnamed Libyan Air base (Hun Air Base according to RFI) during the wednesday-Thursday 23rd-24th night.
6 Fighters were involved : 2 Mirage 2000D, 2 Rafale B and 2 Rafale M from the CdG.
Therefore possibly 6 to 8 scalp missiles were fired. ...

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/03/scalp-strike-over-hun-air-base.html?m=1

The job is deep strike, the number of missiles is only dependent on the number of targets (or in case of Rafale M, the bring back weight if I remember correctly), within the same job!

 

[Sancho]

It's just OBVIOUS.

MMRCA2 is TAILORED MADE FOR RAFALE.

There is just @Sancho to think the contrary.

Of course, because I use facts and common sense as the base for my opinions and not only bias and preference for a specific fighter.

The simple fact that the NDA government is doing everything not to buy Rafale in large numbers alone, proves the opposite of what you are saying.

- they wanted IAF to scrap the 126 Rafale deal and buy MKIs and LCAs instead
- they didn't went for a 126 Rafale G2G deal
- they cancelled MMRCA and re-tendered it to the SE MMRCA, to keep Rafale out
- they included the SPM policy, which is focused on lower costs, which is counterproductive for one of the most expensive fighters
- they rejected follow on orders of Rafale, without a production line in India
- they accepted HALs team up with Mahindra and Boeing and only after that, re-tendered the SE MMRCA back to MMRCA 2.0

You have to be completely blind, to think that all this is somehow positive for Rafale.

 

[Kshithij]

Lol, yes of course =>

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/03/scalp-strike-over-hun-air-base.html?m=1

The job is deep strike, the number of missiles is only dependent on the number of targets (or in case of Rafale M, the bring back weight if I remember correctly), within the same job!

In a full scale war, the number of targets are generally extremely high and hence more number of bombs are needed. Though, the highest intensity fights happen with SAM and enemy airbase as once these are taken out, the est of the job becomes less intense

 

[Armand2REP]

In a full scale war, the number of targets are generally extremely high and hence more number of bombs are needed. Though, the highest intensity fights happen with SAM and enemy airbase as once these are taken out, the est of the job becomes less intense

You won't ever see a full scale war between nuclear powers, they will be limited to a localised area. Unless of course they have started WWIII.

 

[abingdonboy]

Of course, because I use facts and common sense as the base for my opinions and not only bias and preference for a specific fighter.

The simple fact that the NDA government is doing everything not to buy Rafale in large numbers alone, proves the opposite of what you are saying.

- they wanted IAF to scrap the 126 Rafale deal and buy MKIs and LCAs instead
- they didn't went for a 126 Rafale G2G deal
- they cancelled MMRCA and re-tendered it to the SE MMRCA, to keep Rafale out
- they included the SPM policy, which is focused on lower costs, which is counterproductive for one of the most expensive fighters
- they rejected follow on orders of Rafale, without a production line in India
- they accepted HALs team up with Mahindra and Boeing and only after that, re-tendered the SE MMRCA back to MMRCA 2.0

You have to be completely blind, to think that all this is somehow positive for Rafale.

Everything to not buy more EXCEPT investing $2bn on for Indian specific enhancements on the Rafale for IAF and building infrastructure for at least 4 SQNs of Rafale.


With or without MMRCA 2.0 more Rafales are assured, the sunk costs are just too great at this point, anyone that ignores this has an agenda.

 

[abingdonboy]

India would never go for USA planes as they refused ToT completely. Only thing here is F414 but india already got few samples delivered. So, that will be used for prototype. The Kaveri is getting readied and will fly next year. So, India won't need F414 at all.

Guardian drones are actually in consideration. But that is not critical technology.

Issue with Guardians is that they cannot be sold to India unless COMCASA is signed, COMCASA won’t be signed with looming sanctions, COMCASA can’t be discussed in upcoming 2+2 when US side will be going all out to implore/blackmail Indian side not to order S400.

Let’s wait and see what happens in October, if S400 is ordered it is game over for any new defence deals for US other than follow on options.

Sadly this may mean the end of any hopes for S70B- another possible win for France/Airbus?

Hehe, man you need to get over your bias:
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-depends-on-us-permission-dassault-head-says/

Not to mention that the biggest problem would be C130, C17 and P8Is. India can't afford to go back from the Indo - US relations anymore, since it would weaken IAF and IN big time in their capability. The key remains to have a balance and not be over dependent. Also don't forget that the US arms lobby has invested in the relations to India, they won't let this big money maker go away that easily.
Btw, any engine that is an option for LCA MK2, would be an option for Gripen E as well, especially since they first considered the EJ200 as well.

What @BON PLAN said


But also, none of the systems you mentioned above are irreplaceable nor are they sensitive items like fighters.


Fighter jets are strategic assets, any sanctions will immediately expose a huge hole in Indian national security.

Just the very fact that the US is sabre rattling on this is enough to scare the IAF/IN and leadership into line.


But I maintain that the biggest issue that no one really seems to want to talk about is the intended strategic delivery role for these fighters- particarly for IN. Absolutely 0 chance US allows that to happen on one of their planes- ditto for Europeans.

France already has tailormade solutions and wink wink, has taken cognisance of this for tranche 1 of Rafale for IAF.

 

[ersakthivel]

NDA Renegotiated the deal for the prime reason of channeling offsets into useful kaveri upgradation process.

UPA conducted sham negotiations on snecma kaveri jv, till the Rafael was declared a winner in MARCA,

After that they appointed a stupid committee headed by that "aeronautical genius" Air Marshall Matheswaran& based on its, "recommendation",

declared, since GTRE won't, "learn" anything from the snecma GTRE jv for kaveri, the jv should be scrapped.

Then UPA couldn't decide the right amount of bribe & price for the massive deal, which IAF can't afford, due to impending FGFA acquisition.

All manner of rented journos & analysts were commissioned to throw muck on FGFA.

Then election came, bribe masters UPA lost.

Modified saw through the whole mess with Parrikar's help

Parrikar's took the line that there is an alternative plan B for Rafael, publicly snubbing IAF talking heads, who saw no tomorrow without 126 raffles,

Hard renegotiations started, deal size pruned, world class total life cycle support for x years metrics adopted,


& ordered lesser Rafael, junked the golden screw driver TOT local assembly which is actually a rip off of IAF.

Channeled offsets into what India really needed, snecma GTRE JV For kaveri.

Now the bribe denied Raga & UPA are targeting modi for getting Snecma GTRE Kaveri jv back to life.

Papp RaGa after visiting the Chinese ambassador in secret, is Gung how on revealing all of Rafael detail into public, contradicting the confidentiality agreement signed in 2008 by his own minister A. K. Antony.

Now the deal is priced in a transparent manner in combine with international practices

No amount of bribe allegations are gonna stick.

And if a follow on two squadron orders are given, price of the total Rafael deal will reduce substantially, since it won't have the sunk costs of first tranche, more offset for more useful tech as well.

Everyone get what they want, IAF gets the plane, France gets the deal, india gets a jet engine through offset jv.

With no scope for bribe allegations which sink defence deals in India

 

[salute]

It's just my opinion.
India will need a high indian content to give DA this order. Dassault has not built a factory with Reliance to just produce nuts and bolts.

so reliance just gonna put the money and every thing gonna be done by french dassault ???
because reliance has no r&d for any aircraft production let alone fighter jet like rafale .

 

[Kshithij]

so reliance just gonna put the money and every thing gonna be done by french dassault ???
because reliance has no r&d for any aircraft production let alone fighter jet like rafale .

The 49% of the money if French and rest 51% is reliance. The 49% f French money includes money for technology, tooling, machinery, training etc while reliance will provide assets, building, land etc. Essentially, Reliance is just doing simple real estate and other simple works while France is giving the technology and expertise. It is a deal made to increase the quality ad quantity of aerospace engineering in India

 

[abingdonboy]

BON PLAN will Reliance defence limited build Rafale fighter jets under Make in India if selected.

I think it's YES at 100%.

The real question is what will be the final indian contents ?

Assembly : 100%
Machining parts : 95% ? (diffusion yielding pieces? Forging parts needed very big press like undercarriage? I don't know.)
Composite : 50% to 100% dépending of price and level of automatism.
Electronic cards : 90% ? (I doubt wou will have access to the very internal cards and core software of FBW, radar, Spectra.)
Engine : 80% ? (you probably don't have the metalurgical process for M88 gen of dawn).

The certainty in this case is no less than 100%, DRAL is already gearing up for this.

I’ve seen the presentation slides, they are working towards having the capacity to produce 18 Rafales/year.

 

[abingdonboy]

If Reliance goes bankrupt then tell good bye to Rafale fighter jet. Recently Reliance ship yard lost contract to build four LHD due to financial in stability. Now latest news is that fight going on between Reliance ship yard and Larsen turbo ltd. Now favourism charge levelled against top Indian Navy officer by Reliance ship yard.

DRAL is a joint venture with 51% stake from dassualt, entirely distinct from the rest of RIL.

It is pretty well insulated from any of the turbulence of RIL as a whole.

 

[WolfPack86]

The certainty in this case is no less than 100%, DRAL is already gearing up for this.

I’ve seen the presentation slides, they are working towards having the capacity to produce 18 Rafales/year.

Thanks for the information bro.

 

[WolfPack86]

DRAL is a joint venture with 51% stake from dassualt, entirely distinct from the rest of RIL.

It is pretty well insulated from any of the turbulence of RIL as a whole.

Thanks for the information bro.

 

[WolfPack86]

I think Indian Navy would select Rafale fighter aircraft. In the end both Indian navy and Indian air force will operate Rafale fighter aircraft.

 

[rockrocky]

Indian Air Force is benefiting from the goodwill the Rafale deal has created. The French govt has given 32 jaguar fighter-bomber aircraft to India that too free of cost

 

[Armand2REP]

Indian Air Force is benefiting from the goodwill the Rafale deal has created. The French govt has given 32 jaguar fighter-bomber aircraft to India that too free of cost

Rahul Gandhi doesn't care about French goodwill. He committed to making false statements about the president of France. When will they give him a vote of no confidence?

 

[lcafanboy]

Rahul Gandhi doesn't care about French goodwill. He committed to making false statements about the president of France. When will they give him a vote of no confidence?

He's a NUT case.

A RETARDED child of INDO-ITALIAN failed project (his father wore a used broken condom to see if it works, it didn't worked fully. So a half BRAIN retarded child was born). We call that child PAPPU....:biggrin2:

 

[lcafanboy]

Indian Air Force is benefiting from the goodwill the Rafale deal has created. The French govt has given 32 jaguar fighter-bomber aircraft to India that too free of cost

It's 32 jaguar fighters which will be cannibalized for spares to keep Indian jaguars fly till 2030 and big BONUS 2 MIRAGE 2000-5 trainers for replacement of 2 crashed iaf Mirage.

So finally the details of rafale deal are coming out.....

Last 2 of the Rafales will be assembled in DRAL Nagpur and that will be final nail in mmrca2 drama coffin....

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Air Force is benefiting from the goodwill the Rafale deal has created. The French govt has given 32 jaguar fighter-bomber aircraft to India that too free of cost

France is most trusted Indian defence partner. India should cancel MMRCA 2.0 drama and purchase more Rafales.

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol, yes of course =>

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/03/scalp-strike-over-hun-air-base.html?m=1

The job is deep strike, the number of missiles is only dependent on the number of targets (or in case of Rafale M, the bring back weight if I remember correctly), within the same job!

The Rafale M can take off from carrier with 2 SCALP. The only Problem is to bring back on the carrier with just one fired : in peace time it's not authorised (during the WW3, it would be probably different).
In this case the second one have to be released in the sea...