Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

F35 carries only 2 WVR internally with 2 more heavy weapons like 1000kg standoff missile. If anything more is to be carried, it is external pylon only. So, with stealth configuration, F35 can't do sniping as it has mere revolvers instead of sniper rifle.

An F-35 can carry 4 AIM120 internally.

 

[asianobserve]

You don't want to see it !
F35 make one sharp quick turn and you are concluding it's a world class agile plane. Globally it is a lazy plane. Needed to recover energy after manoeuvers (watch it carefully).
Clearly Rafale is far more agile than F35 ! but all with fluence, easier.
Rafale is probably, in the west (because we don't know well the chinese products) the second best dog fighter after F22. It outmatched EF and Gripen (even if Gripen has the same instantaneous turn rate, it can't match in sustain turn rate because under powered)

Definitively 11G >> 7G. That all.

Dream on. The evidence is already in your face and Rafale is still more agile.

The F-35's high AOA simply cannot be matched by Rafale.

 

[asianobserve]

You are confusing design limit and real flight performance !

and 13.5G is 150% of the design limit => design limit is 13.5G / 1.5 = 9G.

So 9G is the design limit. Real perf is less than 9G, because you can't surpass the design limit.

9g is the performance limit of F-35 much like most frontline fighters. But its airframe can definitely handle higher gs.

The only reason why the F-35 cannot yet do 9g maneuvers is that it is limited byits current software. But once it recieves the combat 3f software then the aetificial petformance cap @ 9g will be lifted.

 

[asianobserve]

As posted before, Rafale M with six AAM (the heavier model, 600kg more than the single seat air model) can reach Mach1.4 without reheat !!!
F35 in clean and quite empty can't supercruise (It can....mach 1.2 in a light dive ! :bounce

Rafale cannot supercruise with combat loads. The F-35 on the other hand can supercruise for 30 minutes with internal weapons.

 

[asianobserve]

Those videos are nothing.
Most of "outstanding maneuvers" are "achieved" by camera angles and restricted view ports.
This talks about operator's skills but not about F-35 performance.

It resembles me much J-20 first videos where Chinese fanboys rotated their cameras and adjusted viewports the same way as on this video to "show maneuverability" but...
All gone its true place when static camera / wide viewport videos arrived...

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This video is not produced by the Russian MOD who uses computer video games screen grab as alleged actual videos against Americans!

The camera in the video I posted is steady. There are no camera tricks. Of course the problem is you simply refuse to believe that the F-35 is actually capable of such maneuvers. You were indoctrinated by the Kremlin troll factory that F-35 only travels in a straight line.

 

[asianobserve]

F-35 cannot carry any standoff weapons inside its MWBs exept for probably JSOW, but JSOW is a stand-off weapon for technically retarded enemies only.

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The F-35 can also carry internally AGM-158 JASSM.

 

[asianobserve]

T to W ratio is a very interessant data.
Aerodynamism of the frame another one. And once again it's not in favour of the F35.
As F35 is more a truck than a sparrow, the higher the speed is, the worst the F35 perf are.

So now it's no longer low speed? (You have to swallow your balls thete to admit thay the F-35 trashes the Rafale in WVR maneuvering abilities.)

Just as the F-35 is good at the kind of maneuvers in WVR combat it is very good at high speed long range engagements. That is its specialty. Like the F-22 the F-35 is first a sniper and second a street brawler.

The Rafale on the other hand I'm afraid is just a French loverboy...

Why do you think F35 can't supercruise even with 12 tons dry thrust ?
Why do you think F35 only can reach mach 1.5 (maybe 1.6) even with 18 tons thrust ?

because it is as aerodynamical as a piece of sugar.

You said it yourself that the F-35 can supercruise, and it can! For 30 mins. at 1.2 mach.

 

[asianobserve]

If Rafale is such a super duper plane even against the F-35 then how come all top notch European air forces are going for the F-35?

 

[gadeshi]

The F-35 can also carry internally AGM-158 JASSM.

No, it cannot
Just liok at LM weapons chart to see it.

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[asianobserve]

No, it cannot
Just liok at LM weapons chart to see it.

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It's to be externally carried. But that's not a big problem since JASSM is stealthy by itself. But certification is yet to be done.

 

[BON PLAN]

Hey, Siri, How Do You Fly An F-35?

http://aviationweek.com/defense/hey...m=email&elq2=9da0305590ec4cb79b1126708f222e66

Please, ask Siri how the Fat F35 can reach 9G !

 

[gadeshi]

Rafale cannot supercruise with combat loads. The F-35 on the other hand can supercruise for 30 minutes with internal weapons.

Proofs please?

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[gadeshi]

It's to be externally carried. But that's not a big problem since JASSM is stealthy by itself. But certification is yet to be done.

This is one of the most BS pearls I've ever heard from you
Please continue

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[gadeshi]

This video is not produced by the Russian MOD who uses computer video games screen grab as alleged actual videos against Americans!

The camera in the video I posted is steady. There are no camera tricks. Of course the problem is you simply refuse to believe that the F-35 is actually capable of such maneuvers. You were indoctrinated by the Kremlin troll factory that F-35 only travels in a straight line.

We've seen how it is "capable" during USAF high AOA trials - with static camera and wide wiewport, made by USAF (RU MOD is not involved :bplease ).
So you can try to convince us into something else

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[BON PLAN]

Now, does Rafale have that capability? Again, NO!

just watch .
from 0.40 .... low speed !

 

[BON PLAN]

None of them can supercruise loaded.
That's all proofless rumours.

But!

Rafale (even B one) can supercruise empty unlike F-35 that cannot supercruise at all due to enormous middel cross-section and single-mode (subsonic) optimised non-controllable air intakes.

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Found on the Dassault stand in Le Bourget air show few years ago.

 

[BON PLAN]

Just look at this turning demo even while the F-35 is still limited to 7gs under 3i software:


Take note the maneuvers at 0.05 and 2:52. It's extraordinary how the F-35's nose can be pointed tighter than the actual turn. This is what the Norwegian F-35 test pilot (a vertern of F-16) has been referring to. That F-35 easily points its nose at the F-16 in a turn.

It made 90° turn quite faster, but not more ! lost too much energy !

 

[gadeshi]

It made 90° turn quite faster, but not more ! lost too much energy !

Exactly.
The most valuable is an ability to do one-time high G turns combined with long steady turns without significant energy losses.
But how can you do this on a plane with aerodynamics of a brick?

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[Sancho]

F-35 cannot carry any standoff weapons inside its MWBs exept for probably JSOW, but JSOW is a stand-off weapon for technically retarded enemies only.

Our friend @asianobserve ran out of real arguments when he needed to use videos of air shows to prove a point, or justifying the lack of performance by saying, there is no "significant" TWR advantage, which still means that there is an advantage. So we can stop talking about flight performance since there is no basis for the F35 to begin with.

On the stand off weapon capability though, you have to distinguish between difference of tactics for stealth aircrafts and non stealth once!
The advantage of stealth is to close in to a target without being detected, while modern non stealth aircrafts try to avoid closing in, by using weapons from longer ranges. So for an F35 using a 2000lb JDAM against a high value target at close distance, is more effective than using a cruise missile like Rafale would do from long distance. Same goes for A2A combats as well, where non stealth fighters try to increase the distance for BVR shots, by long range visual ID (FSO-IT), or the large no escape zone advantage of Meteor to their advantage. A stealth fighter on the other side can close in and would benefit more, from short to medium shots to increase kill probability. That's why the US is considering smaller missiles, that are more suitable for stealth fighter tactics and load restrictions.

 

[Kshithij]

F-35 cannot carry any standoff weapons inside its MWBs exept for probably JSOW, but JSOW is a stand-off weapon for technically retarded enemies only.

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JSOW is just a glide bomb. If F35 can't carry any meaningful payload in stealth, why is USA going ahead instead of modifying it? What kind of stealth fighter is F35 if it can carry no meaningful payload in stealth configuration? It is more of a reconnaissance plane than a fighter