Know Your 'Rafale'

[undeadmyrmidon]

https://webcache.googleusercontent....ray-aesa-rbe2-radar+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in

Deleted link to RBE2 AESA production model.

 

[Sancho]

India is paying for those upgrades due to the possibility of it using the naval version as well. Captor E export is not as good as Captor M. That much is expected.

Not really, India is paying for upgrades on the F3R, to close capability gaps and add weapons and systems to suit IAFs operational needs. It's basically what we have done with the Mirage 2000 upgrade as well. The F4 upgrade has nothing to do with India, since it's too far in the future and has no relevance for the 36 fighters we ordered.
And your expectations on EF are clearly not based on accurate info's.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Not really, India is paying for upgrades on the F3R, to close capability gaps and add weapons and systems to suit IAFs operational needs. It's basically what we have done with the Mirage 2000 upgrade as well. The F4 upgrade has nothing to do with India, since it's too far in the future and has no relevance for the 36 fighters we ordered.
And your expectations on EF are clearly not based on accurate info's.

Every eurofighter origin country is buying F 35s. Eurofighter has no future post late 2020s.

 

[Sancho]

Every eurofighter origin country is buying F 35s. Eurofighter has no future post late 2020s.

Yeah you stated that false conclusion before, just that RBE2 would be comparable in size to Captor E. As I said, based on inaccurate infos.

 

[Sancho]

This deals with the myth, that the Rafale deal got India a far more capable fighter than in the MMRCA tender. The Indian specific customisations are not negotiated by any GoI, but are based on operational requirements of IAF and depending on the capability gaps the fighter has. Both the upgraded Mirage and the Rafale got similar customizations, which also would had been the same, if the MMRCA had been fixed.
The only difference therfore is the fact, that due to the delays, now the F3R was available, which however hardly adds any meaningful capability, other than Meteor and software upgrades.

 

[BON PLAN]

Yeah right, because they will never upgrade their radar.
They just don't have to rush it, because the Captor M was and still is a very good radar, contrary to the RBE 2 PESA.
Kuwait is already planned for the early Captor E by 2019/20 and while the partners have to decide how capable they want their version of the AESA? UK seems to aim on Electronic Attack capability in combination with Spear 3 missiles for SEAD. Rafale will get similar capabilities only from 2025 onwards, if the necessary funds are cleared.

UK to fund new EF deep developpment? They are fully involved in F35 and can't buy the minimum number, so forget that idea !

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Yeah you stated that false conclusion before, just that RBE2 would be comparable in size to Captor E. As I said, based on inaccurate infos.

RBE 2 will be upgraded and used by France in future as they have their entire air force's future on the line for this. OEM Eurofighter countries will NOT buy more because they are buying F 35. Why buy a Honda City when you can have a BMW 8 Series. All this shilling for EFs to spite BJP is just funny. Also the production model RBE2 is different from airshow model. The Captor M is the real deal not E variant. That one is a downgraded model for export.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

This deals with the myth, that the Rafale deal got India a far more capable fighter than in the MMRCA tender. The Indian specific customisations are not negotiated by any GoI, but are based on operational requirements of IAF and depending on the capability gaps the fighter has. Both the upgraded Mirage and the Rafale got similar customizations, which also would had been the same, if the MMRCA had been fixed.
The only difference therfore is the fact, that due to the delays, now the F3R was available, which however hardly adds any meaningful capability, other than Meteor and software upgrades.

Rafale is the only 4++ fighter that can walk alongside 5th generation. The FSO IRST and SPECTRA suite will help against upcoming J 20s.

 

[Immanuel]

Every eurofighter origin country is buying F 35s. Eurofighter has no future post late 2020s.

That is not true at all, EF has been ordered by several countries and last thing they will do is mothball a fine aircraft before MLU, EF's during MLU will get significant upgrades so there is no worry about that. So what if F-35 is bought by countries operating the EF, F-35 is a single engined fighter which brings 5th gen abilities.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

That is not true at all, EF has been ordered by several countries and last thing they will do is mothball a fine aircraft before MLU, EF's during MLU will get significant upgrades so there is no worry about that. So what if F-35 is bought by countries operating the EF, F-35 is a single engined fighter which brings 5th gen abilities.

Nope, F 35 is a cash cow. It will suck up all money for future upgrades. Also the EU fucked itself in the ass by allowing immigration crisis to happen. With too many socialist - JNU types in PM,President position defence funding will be cut progressively and some may even be sold second hand to tin pot dictators.

Read the whole book not the foreword.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @manupubby an:

 

[Sancho]

UK to fund new EF deep developpment?

Educate yourself about the current centurion upgrade programme, the coming project Janus, or project Bright adder and then we can talk.

 

[BON PLAN]

You could have downloaded the article as well, but as said, you just deny it for the sake of denying.

It's clear they are not comparing their futur radar with Rafale operationnal one :

- Rafale AESA has more than 1000 T/R modules (850 was the figure of a very first prototyp, with US modules).
- Legacy fighter : it's probably the F16, which has a small nose cone.

TRY ANOTHER TIME BRO, maybe you will have some success.

 

[BON PLAN]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @manupubby an:

You are surprised?
They purchased 36 OFF THE SHELF !
The ToT about manufacturing will come with the first batch under MII (maybe not the second, more probably the third)

 

[BON PLAN]

This deals with the myth, that the Rafale deal got India a far more capable fighter than in the MMRCA tender. The Indian specific customisations are not negotiated by any GoI, but are based on operational requirements of IAF and depending on the capability gaps the fighter has. Both the upgraded Mirage and the Rafale got similar customizations, which also would had been the same, if the MMRCA had been fixed.
The only difference therfore is the fact, that due to the delays, now the F3R was available, which however hardly adds any meaningful capability, other than Meteor and software upgrades.

Talios is not ordered SO FAR...
They are waiting to see the real french model, ie this year.

 

[Kshithij]

You are surprised?
They purchased 36 OFF THE SHELF !
The ToT about manufacturing will come with the first batch under MII (maybe not the second, more probably the third)

I don't think we need any manufacturing capability for Rafale. Unless there is scope for making Rafale fully indigenous in the near future (which will require engine, FBW algorithm etc all of which are specific to Rafale), there is no point getting ToT to make some minor parts.

 

[BON PLAN]

Educate yourself about the current centurion upgrade programme, the coming project Janus, or project Bright adder and then we can talk.

The British list of abandonned or trucated programm is so long...
Nimrod NG : canceled
EF : 160 purchase vs 234, with the 48 planes of tranche 1 facing a dark futur. Remain 112?
T45 destroyer : 6 vs 8. And all without anti ship missile.
134 F35 purchase ? (24 so far.... LOL )

They are revealing the next defense review. You really think it will increase the amount of money for defense when their économy is struggling with the Brexit (and it's just the beginning... the fools they are)?

 

[BON PLAN]

I don't think we need any manufacturing capability for Rafale. Unless there is scope for making Rafale fully indigenous in the near future (which will require engine, FBW algorithm etc all of which are specific to Rafale), there is no point getting ToT to make some minor parts.

Helping india to close the developpement of Kaveri is minor? (even if remain only the 5 last %, indial struggle for yearssss to succeed. Without our help (or RR or PW or GE or russian help), Kaveri was dead as a fighter engine (maybe a naval turbine ?)

Helping india to master TVC on missile is a minor part ?

 

[Kshithij]

The British list of abandonned or trucated programm is so long...
Nimrod NG : canceled
EF : 160 purchase vs 234, with the 48 planes of tranche 1 facing a dark futur. Remain 112?
T45 destroyer : 6 vs 8. And all without anti ship missile.
134 F35 purchase ? (24 so far.... LOL )

They are revealing the next defense review. You really think it will increase the amount of money for defense when their économy is struggling with the Brexit (and it's just the beginning... the fools they are)?

Actually Britain produces the oil it consumes. This makes their economy resilient. If they want, they can produce more of these toys by diverting funds, kicking out immigrants and going to full scale production. Don't forget that UK got orders from Qatar to get EF manufactured.

Helping india to close the developpement of Kaveri is minor? (even if remain only the 5 last %, indial struggle for yearssss to succeed. Without our help (or RR or PW or GE or russian help), Kaveri was dead as a fighter engine (maybe a naval turbine ?)

Helping india to master TVC on missile is a minor part ?

I was speaking of ToT for rafales. Also, the tweet that Sancho mentioned was about the 36 rafales being bought off the shelf. So, the Kaveri offset was not considered there. Also, what TVC for missiles are you speaking of? Which missile?

 

[Sancho]

It's clear they are not comparing their futur radar with Rafale operationnal one :

- Rafale AESA has more than 1000 T/R modules (850 was the figure of a very first prototyp, with US modules).
- Legacy fighter : it's probably the F16, which has a small nose cone.

TRY ANOTHER TIME BRO, maybe you will have some success.

Loooool, you wanted a source for the TRM count and now that you can't deny it anymore, you get back in distraction mode. The fact remains, that the radar of the EF is the biggest in the medium class segment and that's why it always will have an advantage there.
And as shown before too, RBE 2 couldn't keep up with APG 80 either.

Radar is not a strong point of the Rafale, it just was good marketing for Dassault, to claim that they were the first to have AESA, but now the rest have it too and that with better performance.