Know Your 'Rafale'

WolfPack86

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UPDATE / 7 MARCH: Livefist can now confirm that a metal full-scale model of the Ghatak is currently under fabrication by a private firm in Bengaluru in coordination with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). The exercise was ordered late last year by DRDO chief Dr S. Christopher. The full-scale model will look to serve two preliminary purposes: gauge detection range and ‘dry’ radar cross section, i.e., prior to the application of in-development advanced low-observability/RCS reduction features and/or special coatings. Livefist has also learnt that the DRDO and Dassault Aviation are in detailed discussions on the utilisation of part of the latter’s offset commitments from the Rafale deal to bring advanced technologies and software (some of it from the nEUROn programme) to the Ghatak project and help speed things up till the full-scale engineering & design (FSED) phase. Teams from Dassault and ADA have met twice, with a third engagement likely in May this year. A team from ADA has also been invited to France to get a closer look at Dassault’s work in the UCAV space centred around the nEUROn programme.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/exclusive-indias-ghatak-stealth-ucav-moves-forward.html
 

lcafanboy

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Slowly slowly Rafale offsets are being made public. I had already told that we are going to buy 250-300 Rafales for both IAF & IN. Kaveri Engine also is being completed and HAL HTFE-25 engine being upgraded to 40KN. Still people doubt my posts. Have fun more offset announcements are coming as soon as Safran delivers Kaveri.:biggrin2:
 

WolfPack86

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Vincent Lamigeon‏ @VincentLamigeon
Le #Rafale peut être embarqué sur le porte-avions indien actuel (ex-russe). "Plus efficace que les MiG-29" assure Eric Trappier


It means

The #Rafale can be embarked on the current (ex-Russian) Indian aircraft carrier. "More efficient than the MiG-29" says Eric Trappier

As I have said earlier , folding wing R&D is a part of the Marine offer (customization).

We know about the Vicky lifts..And it's also clear IN wants a common platform for all the carrier's and relegating the 29k to shore based duties..

Trappier words seems to indicate that solution to implement folded wings is cleared.. that's why it can do duties in Vikramaditya as well..

Going forward RAFALE and neuron both will be broken down to production in specialised factories. For example the Reliance factory will make unique parts of Rafale not made in France and thus will become part of global chain and also the cost benefit will extend to DA line of Rafales at merignac. This will create a unique inter dependency..

Btw soon in next 12-24 months Malaysia and UAE deals will be closed and part of the Rafale and its parts will be via Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited...
I have copied this above statements from Parikrama a member of Indian defence forum and i post link below
http://*****************/threads/rafale-deal-signed.56201/page-154#post-533844
 
Last edited:

lcafanboy

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Dassault Aviation is hopeful to sell 57 Rafale Marine to India
Posted in Air Force , Industry by Laurent Lagneau On 08-03-2017

The choice of the Rafale in Belgium and Finland seems uncertain, as the Lockheed-Martin F-35A Lightning II and the Boeing F / A-18 Super Hornet are favorites to modernize the combat aircraft of these two countries.

For the Belgian case, it might be possible to pool the maintenance in operational condition with the Netherlands, which have already ordered 37 F-35As. As for Finland, whose air force already has the F / A-18 Hornet, holding Boeing makes sense, although the Super Hornet is very different from its elder. Thus, Canada made this choice by presenting the case as a "temporary" solution to avoid a capacity deficit.

Also, Éric Trappier, the CEO of Dassault Aviation, does not seem to have too many illusions. As he repeated at the press conference given on March 8 to present the results of his group, in defense, there is an "American preference" in Europe.

However, if the Rafale does not sell on the Old Continent, it seduces elsewhere. Especially in the Middle East and Asia. It is in these regions that Dassault Aviation's airplane has the best chance of winning.

After signing a first contract, in September 2016, for the delivery of 36 Rafale, India could place a new order. In January, an official of the Indian Ministry of Defense told Aviation International News (AIN) that New Delhi was considering acquiring 36 additional aircraft.

This was confirmed by Dassault Aviation on March 8, referring to "discussions on a new section of Rafale", which would this time be built in India. Already, last February, the French industrialist
created a joint venture with the Indian group Reliance in order to "pilot the offset [industrial compensation, ed]" related to the first Rafale contract.

In addition, Trappier also confirmed that Dassault Aviation would propose the Rafale M to the Indian Navy, which launched a request for information in January to acquire 57 fighter ships embarked in its program " Multi Role Carrier Borne Fighters "(MRCBF).

One of the requirements expressed by the Indian Navy is that its future on-board fighter will have to be able to be deployed from aircraft carriers in STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) and CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take-Off Barrier Arrested Recovery). However, this is not a problem for Mr. Trappier, for whom Rafale M has a "good chance" of winning.



Suivre
Vincent Lamigeon

✔@VincentLamigeon

Le #Rafale peut être embarqué sur le porte-avions indien actuel (ex-russe). "Plus efficace que les MiG-29" assure Eric Trappier

09:54 - 8 Mars 2017

09:54 - 8 Mars 2017



Indeed, this aircraft, which until now has only operated on buildings in CATOBAR configuration, "can be embarked on the current Indian aircraft carrier", ie INS Vikramaditya, India by Russia. In addition, he argued that it is "more effective " than the MiG-29K, "which is far from satisfying the Indian Navy.

For the MRCBF program, four aircraft would be in the running. In addition to the Rafale M, a naval version of the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen E / F aircraft, which has yet to be developed, is to be developed, the F / A-18 Super Hornet. STOBAR aircraft carriers, and the MiG-29K.

Mr. Trappier still believes in the chances of Rafale in the United Arab Emirates (but the record is now dragging for nearly 9 years) and Malaysia, which has expressed the need for 18 new combat aircraft.

In an interview given to West France in September 2016, Mr. Trappier said he believed more in a Rafale contract in Malaysia than in Canada, where Dassault Aviation wanted to be "very proactive" The Royal Canadian Air Force (CF-18) replacement file.

However, Éric Trappier spoke of "complementary questions" coming from new prospects, particularly in Asia. And this, thanks to the "stability" of the Rafale compared to its competitors. "At the same time that there may be difficulties encountered by American planes or by our American competitors, it is clear that the Rafale (...) continues its life," he said.

http://www.opex360.com/2017/03/08/dassault-aviation-bon-espoir-de-vendre-57-rafale-marine-linde/

Here comes more confirmation that we are buying 250-300 Rafales for both IAF & IN. Also IN will have around 200 fighters of different types to take on coastal security and IAF will focus only on Land based threats. I was first to break this on this forum and people were mocking. Also 2 more clients under India's influence are buying Rafales Malaysia & UAE which will also be confirmed with 6-9 months. All these fighters will be coming out from Nagpur plant. Now R&D per plane will go down substantially bringing down cost of Rafales further plus India will have cheaper labor to bring down further for Indian Rafales which will cost around RS 475-525 crores per plane, just around Rs 100 crores more than SU 30 MKI which would also be recovered by lower Flying hour cost.
 

DAC O DAC

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F-18 and Rafale are in a way dead horses which their respective countries are flogging, because else everyone will notice that they are dead horses.
It's probably why these two planes are selled... because they are dead horses.... LOL
 

BON PLAN

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UPDATE / 7 MARCH: Livefist can now confirm that a metal full-scale model of the Ghatak is currently under fabrication by a private firm in Bengaluru in coordination with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). The exercise was ordered late last year by DRDO chief Dr S. Christopher. The full-scale model will look to serve two preliminary purposes: gauge detection range and ‘dry’ radar cross section, i.e., prior to the application of in-development advanced low-observability/RCS reduction features and/or special coatings. Livefist has also learnt that the DRDO and Dassault Aviation are in detailed discussions on the utilisation of part of the latter’s offset commitments from the Rafale deal to bring advanced technologies and software (some of it from the nEUROn programme) to the Ghatak project and help speed things up till the full-scale engineering & design (FSED) phase. Teams from Dassault and ADA have met twice, with a third engagement likely in May this year. A team from ADA has also been invited to France to get a closer look at Dassault’s work in the UCAV space centred around the nEUROn programme.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/exclusive-indias-ghatak-stealth-ucav-moves-forward.html
There are closer and closer links between France and India in aerospace and navy equipments. Very good for both parties.
 

lcafanboy

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Dassault to unveil F4 standard Rafale in 2023-24.

Dassault bullish on Rafale's long-term prospects



  • 08 MARCH, 2017
  • SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
  • BY: DOMINIC PERRY
  • PARIS


Production of the Dassault Rafale could continue well into the latter half of the next decade as the French manufacturer looks to add to the 110 aircraft already in its backlog.

It is already holding discussions with the Paris government about a fifth order tranche, designed to allow France to field an eventual 225-strong fleet of Rafales, says Dassault chief executive Eric Trappier.

Between them, the French air force and navy have so far received 148 aircraft, with deliveries of the remaining 32 now slowing to a trickle.


Dassault handed over six examples of the multirole fighter to its domestic customer last year and plans to deliver a solitary aircraft to the air force in 2017.

Three Rafales will follow in 2018, but then none in either 2019 or 2020, before deliveries restart in 2021.

However, output will not be significantly affected thanks to Dassault’s run of recent export sales successes for the type, netting a combined 84 orders from Egypt, India and Qatar.

Deliveries to Egypt have begun, with six handed over so far and a further eight to follow this year, with 10 remaining. Qatar will take its first of 24 Rafales in 2018, with India receiving its initial aircraft from a 36-unit order the following year.



Dassault

Trappier believes it can capture hundreds of additional sales, both from existing Rafale customers – India has already begun the process of acquiring 57 carrier-borne fighters for its navy – and operators of the Mirage 2000 who are looking to upgrade.

European nations with active fighter replacement programmes are another source of potential orders, he says, identifying Belgium, Finland and Switzerland as strong prospects, in the latter case as a replacement for its Boeing F/A-18C/Ds.

“Switzerland is going to change its position. After trying to buy a smaller aircraft [the Saab Gripen] they will buy the top of the range, which is the Rafale,” he says.

“I don’t see that the Swiss will return to the Gripen – the people voted against it, so it would be difficult for a defence minister to go back.”

Meanwhile, it is working with the French DGA procurement agency to define the specifications for the F4-standard Rafale, which would make its debut in the 2023-24 timeframe.

Enhancements are likely to include improved datalinks and communications systems, as well as new weapons configurations. The work will build on the F3R standard which will be fielded from 2018, and sees the integration of MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dassault-bullish-on-rafales-long-term-prospects-434951/
 

WolfPack86

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India unlikely to purchase more Rafale fighter jets

The government does not seem keen to place a follow-on order to buy twin-engine Rafale fighter planes made by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation even as the Indian Air Force (IAF) faces a depletion of its fleet.

The Indian government signed a contract to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition on September 23 for a whopping $8.8 billion. The original plan was to buy 126 Rafale jets. However, the plan was trimmed owing to the cost of each aircraft and only 36 were bought after protracted negotiations with France.

As a result, it is now unlikely that the government will place any further orders to buy these expensive planes even though it needs additional aircraft, sources in the Defence Ministry told BusinessLine.

“Follow on orders for the Rafale are a big question mark. Where is the money going to come from? There are much cheaper options available,” said a senior official.

At present, IAF has 34 squadrons out of the 42 required to guard the skies. This is the lowest count for the IAF in the last decade. Each squadron consists of 18 aircraft. Apart from this, 11 squadrons consisting of MiG-21s, are looking at retirement, which will pose an additional challenge.

So, the demand for fighter jets remains. Even though India chose to buy only 36 Rafales after cancelling the plan to acquire 126, the original requirement still remains.

However, sources said the government was now focused on acquiring single-engine fighter jets, the deal size of which is around $12 billion. The frontrunners in this are Saab’s Gripen and Lockheed Martin’s F-16.

Dassault Aviation has already made it clear to the government that it will not be able to go for full transfer of technology and create an industrial ecosystem by manufacturing the planes here under the ‘Make in India’ programme unless it is given additional orders.


Dassault eyes carriers ::

However, sources also said that Dassault Aviation is now lobbying with the government on the Indian Navy’s plan to purchase 57 Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighters.

But, it seems the MoD will not be opting for Rafale due to its high price. As a result, Boeing and MiG are now eyeing the deal. Boeing has offered its F/A-18 Super Hornet, which is being used by the US Navy.

According to sources, the cost of maintaining Rafale jets is also higher than other aircraft offering a similar platform. Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation had said on the sidelines of the Aero India show last month that the company would set up a plant to manufacture the fighter jets in India only for an order of more than a 100 jets.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-unlikely-to-purchase-more-Rafale-fighter-jets-250941
 

rohit b3

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India unlikely to purchase more Rafale fighter jets

The government does not seem keen to place a follow-on order to buy twin-engine Rafale fighter planes made by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation even as the Indian Air Force (IAF) faces a depletion of its fleet.

The Indian government signed a contract to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition on September 23 for a whopping $8.8 billion. The original plan was to buy 126 Rafale jets. However, the plan was trimmed owing to the cost of each aircraft and only 36 were bought after protracted negotiations with France.

As a result, it is now unlikely that the government will place any further orders to buy these expensive planes even though it needs additional aircraft, sources in the Defence Ministry told BusinessLine.

“Follow on orders for the Rafale are a big question mark. Where is the money going to come from? There are much cheaper options available,” said a senior official.

At present, IAF has 34 squadrons out of the 42 required to guard the skies. This is the lowest count for the IAF in the last decade. Each squadron consists of 18 aircraft. Apart from this, 11 squadrons consisting of MiG-21s, are looking at retirement, which will pose an additional challenge.

So, the demand for fighter jets remains. Even though India chose to buy only 36 Rafales after cancelling the plan to acquire 126, the original requirement still remains.

However, sources said the government was now focused on acquiring single-engine fighter jets, the deal size of which is around $12 billion. The frontrunners in this are Saab’s Gripen and Lockheed Martin’s F-16.

Dassault Aviation has already made it clear to the government that it will not be able to go for full transfer of technology and create an industrial ecosystem by manufacturing the planes here under the ‘Make in India’ programme unless it is given additional orders.


Dassault eyes carriers ::

However, sources also said that Dassault Aviation is now lobbying with the government on the Indian Navy’s plan to purchase 57 Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighters.

But, it seems the MoD will not be opting for Rafale due to its high price. As a result, Boeing and MiG are now eyeing the deal. Boeing has offered its F/A-18 Super Hornet, which is being used by the US Navy.

According to sources, the cost of maintaining Rafale jets is also higher than other aircraft offering a similar platform. Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation had said on the sidelines of the Aero India show last month that the company would set up a plant to manufacture the fighter jets in India only for an order of more than a 100 jets.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-unlikely-to-purchase-more-Rafale-fighter-jets-250941
Foreign lobbies fighting with each other using the paid media. I hope Tejas wins between all this.
 

smestarz

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The reason to buy single engine plane is that its cheaper to buy and operate,
I think in that case it would be Tejas and perhaps the Russians might put in MiG-35

India unlikely to purchase more Rafale fighter jets

The government does not seem keen to place a follow-on order to buy twin-engine Rafale fighter planes made by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation even as the Indian Air Force (IAF) faces a depletion of its fleet.

The Indian government signed a contract to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition on September 23 for a whopping $8.8 billion. The original plan was to buy 126 Rafale jets. However, the plan was trimmed owing to the cost of each aircraft and only 36 were bought after protracted negotiations with France.

As a result, it is now unlikely that the government will place any further orders to buy these expensive planes even though it needs additional aircraft, sources in the Defence Ministry told BusinessLine.

“Follow on orders for the Rafale are a big question mark. Where is the money going to come from? There are much cheaper options available,” said a senior official.

At present, IAF has 34 squadrons out of the 42 required to guard the skies. This is the lowest count for the IAF in the last decade. Each squadron consists of 18 aircraft. Apart from this, 11 squadrons consisting of MiG-21s, are looking at retirement, which will pose an additional challenge.

So, the demand for fighter jets remains. Even though India chose to buy only 36 Rafales after cancelling the plan to acquire 126, the original requirement still remains.

However, sources said the government was now focused on acquiring single-engine fighter jets, the deal size of which is around $12 billion. The frontrunners in this are Saab’s Gripen and Lockheed Martin’s F-16.

Dassault Aviation has already made it clear to the government that it will not be able to go for full transfer of technology and create an industrial ecosystem by manufacturing the planes here under the ‘Make in India’ programme unless it is given additional orders.


Dassault eyes carriers ::

However, sources also said that Dassault Aviation is now lobbying with the government on the Indian Navy’s plan to purchase 57 Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighters.

But, it seems the MoD will not be opting for Rafale due to its high price. As a result, Boeing and MiG are now eyeing the deal. Boeing has offered its F/A-18 Super Hornet, which is being used by the US Navy.

According to sources, the cost of maintaining Rafale jets is also higher than other aircraft offering a similar platform. Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation had said on the sidelines of the Aero India show last month that the company would set up a plant to manufacture the fighter jets in India only for an order of more than a 100 jets.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-unlikely-to-purchase-more-Rafale-fighter-jets-250941
 

DAC O DAC

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The reason to buy single engine plane is that its cheaper to buy and operate,
I think in that case it would be Tejas and perhaps the Russians might put in MiG-35
Hi all,
I think and hope India will revive Tejas, with the help of Safran.
Mig35 has no chance :
- IN and IAF are not very satisfied with Mig29, and Mig 35 is only a derivative (improved, but not a totally new aircraft. It suffer from the same weakness : maintenance, weak radar, short legs...).
- The part of russian planes in the indian inventory is too high.
- with a first order of Rafale, no other dual engines medium planes will be induced.

DoD
 

smestarz

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MiG 29 is in service when we were contemplating buying Mirage 2000
MiG-29 is now being upgraded to MiG-29 UPG, what exactly is the crash rate of MiG-29 in Indian navy or IAF? and do compare it with Crash rate of Rafale in French Marine, those are just stats.
MiG-35 is a much improved derivative to simply it the Russians could call it MiG-29 Block 70 if it might make people like you happy, but they cannot. The French if you ask them they might tell you that Rafale F1 is way different than Rafale F3R etc, they prefer to add blocks, the Russians prefer their naming style.
By the way, the name is not important, the capability is. And as for short legs, Well then if required, India can consider Su-33, it has longer legs than Rafale and in a way more capable, but it was because India felt comfortable with MiG-29K hence the Russians put their support behind MiG-29K letting Su-33 project die with Chinese being left hanging with the examples they purchased.

Hi all,
I think and hope India will revive Tejas, with the help of Safran.
Mig35 has no chance :
- IN and IAF are not very satisfied with Mig29, and Mig 35 is only a derivative (improved, but not a totally new aircraft. It suffer from the same weakness : maintenance, weak radar, short legs...).
- The part of russian planes in the indian inventory is too high.
- with a first order of Rafale, no other dual engines medium planes will be induced.

DoD
 

WolfPack86

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Snippets directly from what Reliance Defence has shared with few institutional investors and research firms

http://*****************/data/attachments/3/3862-79b8fe2daa3f6935f080eb4909318c77.jpg

cost per aircraft is touted at Rs 8 Bn or Rs 800 Crs or USD 121 Mn or Euro 113 Mn

Long term plan for delivery target is 18/annum


Thats the nitty gritty of the MII project

Risk and opportunities cited are
  1. MOD /GOI procurement based on geo strategic relations
  2. Previous experience with vendors /OEMs who have supplied to IAF and if IAF is operating any system made by them previously.
  3. Technology being offered to us and how is that superior to what is already either provided to our neighboring adversaries
  4. limited capex budget availability might mean delay as existing assets would be upgraded first and decision of such new capex may be delayed with no timeline clarity

Some more points

  • Reliance Dassault JV estimates the the life‐cycle expenditure of Rafale fighter Aircraft (3‐5x of original acquisition costs).
  • Estimation of opportunity is to the tune of Rs 1,050bn.
  • Deal of 36 mandates offset component and money that has to be invested by the company into the Indian Defense and Aerospace sector of ~Rs 295bn.
  • While part of offsets will go towards technology acquisition by DRDO, major chunk will go in to setting up the manufacturing facilities in India.
  • In addition to servicing the Rafale deal, Reliance Dassault JV would operate with a view to focus on exports in the long run.
  • This JV is likely to be operationalised by mid of FY2018 with its main manufacturing unit at Nagpur (currently works is going‐on at their 100 acre facility).
  • Note:
  • All this statement is given by Parikrama member of Indian Defence Forum. I am posting looking link below
  • http://*****************/threads/rafale-deal-signed.56201/page-167#post-537414
 

WolfPack86

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Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa Hints At More Rafales For The Air Force..

P.S- This is a befitting message to some media outlets recently claiming 'No more Rafales were likely to be inducted' while giving absurd and baseless reasons..

Speaking to reporters after an award ceremony at the Air Force Station in Tambaram on March 3rd, he said that "Rafale fighter aircraft would be inducted into the IAF from 2019. A total of 36 fighters would be added to the fleet in the FIRST BATCH"

Meanwhile Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said that "Rafales can be embarked on the current (ex-Russian) Indian aircraft carrier" and that they are "More efficient than the MiG-29"

There were doubts regarding the Vikramaditya's and Vikrant's capability to carry the Rafales as its dimensions made it too big for the carrier's lifts. R&D is being done to have foldable wings on the aircraft to make them fit on the lifts as well as reducing their overall fooprint on the deck to increase the total number of aircrafts carried onboard.

Courtesy - Tejas India's MRCA.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/indianmilitaryphotos/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

WolfPack86

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Once expanded, Tambaram Air Force Station runway can serve Chennai during natural calamities: Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa
CHENNAI: The Indian Air Force has requested the Tamil Nadugovernment to allocate land to expand the runway at the Tambaram Air Force station, said Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa on Friday.

Speaking to reporters after an award ceremony at the Air Force Station, Dhanoa said only small aircraft can land on the existing runway and 54 acres of land is required to expand it.

During the December 2015 floods which affected the city airport badly, Tambaram Air Force station's runway was functional. "If land is allocated, the runway can be expanded, which will be helpful during natural disasters," he said.


He said a base station for fighter aircraft is coming up in Thanjavur. "Work on the infrastructure for the base station is expected to be completed in the next two or three years," he said.

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa said Rafale fighter aircraft would be inducted into the IAF by 2019. A total of 36 fighters would be added to the fleet in the first batch, he said.

Asked about AN-32 aircraft which went missing on July 22, 2016 while flying from Chennai to Port Blair, he said Malaysian Airlines plane MH-370, which went missing on March 8, 2014, could not be traced despite availability of advanced technology and equipment.

AN-32 did not have the underwater locator beacon. "Nothing was found during searches. No wreckage of the aircraft was found. Hence the search operation was called off," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ef-marshal-bs-dhanoa/articleshow/57450893.cms
 

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