Know Your 'Rafale'

[PD_Solo]

Rafale can take off on ski jump but the load is not know. The only competitors are Rafale M and Mig 29k2.

F-Attarah ?

Tees akshar niyam chusta hai.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

[Filtercoffee]

Full conversion to a four cat carrier can have Rafale, I will stick with migs for ski - jumps.That is just my personal opinion/musing.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Ah I got it, still I don't think the N-LCA could possibly compete with the Rafale-M in a head to head fight.

Some basic questions regarding Rafale-M.

When it was tested and certified for Ski-jump???

What is the certified take-off weight in hot humid climate for Rafale-M from Ski-jump??

How much time it will take Rafale-M to test and certify with serious weapons load for Ski-jump take off????

Many questions till now are just "?????" and dont make any serious cut "as of now".

@lcafanboy your kind contribution is also solicited.

 

[abingdonboy]

Some basic questions regarding Rafale-M.

When it was tested and certified for Ski-jump???

What is the certified take-off weight in hot humid climate for Rafale-M from Ski-jump??

How much time it will take Rafale-M to test and certify with serious weapons load for Ski-jump take off????

Many questions till now are just "?????" and dont make any serious cut "as of now".

@lcafanboy your kind contribution is also solicited.

Only Dassualt could tell you the above but I can assure you that a STOBAR Rafale-M is going to be the fastest and simplest option for the IN available (discounting the MiG-29Ks they don't want). The N-LCA has barely started its carrier qualification (it hasn't even conducted an arrested landing just yet).

When a world class OEM like DA that has decades of experience in carrier fighter says they have modelled it and the Rafale is compatible with the IN's carriers I am inclined to buy it.

 

[Scrutator]

Only Dassualt could tell you the above but I can assure you that a STOBAR Rafale-M is going to be the fastest and simplest option for the IN available (discounting the MiG-29Ks they don't want). The N-LCA has barely started its carrier qualification (it hasn't even conducted an arrested landing just yet).

When a world class OEM like DA that has decades of experience in carrier fighter says they have modelled it and the Rafale is compatible with the IN's carriers I am inclined to buy it.

Definitely, Rafale is a far better aircraft than Mig-29K or N-LCA(which won't be available till 2025!).
Rafale has only done 'simulations' of ski jump take-off. Maybe they could demonstrate it on the land-based ski jump test facility that IN uses. The advantage with N-LCA (when it becomes a reality) is that it will be configured to carry some awesome Indian weaponry (especially the Brahmos NG, Nirbhay & Astra ).

 

[abingdonboy]

Maybe they could demonstrate it on the land-based ski jump test facility that IN uses.

Dassualt are bringing Rafale-Ms to the IN's SBTF in Goa later this year to validate its simulations.

 

[WolfPack86]

Will Need Larger Rafale Order For True Make In India: Dassault CEO

Dassault believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India.
BANGALORE: France is in discussions to assist India with its next generation Advanced Multi-role Combat Aircraft (AMCA) as part of the offset obligations of the Rafale fighter jet deal, Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India at a `competitive level' the senior executive has said.
Answering a query by ET, Trappier said that Dassault is ready to assist India with its fighter jet programs. "We have already discussed with Indian agencies and have proposed that our capabilities be integrated. We have started the discussions as part of the offset framework," Trappier said, adding that the company is keen to partner with India for the project.
The Dassault CEO made a strong pitch for the Rafale for an upcoming Indian Navy requirement for carrier borne jets, saying that the Rafale is the only jet with dedicated air force and naval versions. "We want to continue beyond the 36 jets on order. The requirement is around 200 jets for India and a naval order as well," he said.
Dassault however believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India. Trappier said that extra orders would need to be placed by 2017-18 to come up with a larger Make in India plan that would involve shifting heavy work.
Responding to questions on why the company chose Reliance Defence to be a major offset partner, Dassault said that its main Indian partner in the past- HAL - was busy with several projects like the Light Combat Aircraft and the choice was to go with a new entrant into the defense field. "We were told that HAL was fully booked. We talked to Reliance and they were very keen to create such capabilities in India. They have a track record and the financial capability as well," Trappier said.
In December, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said that India needs much more than the 36 jets on order, without specifying the number that the air force has recommended to the government.
Saying that India requires 200-250 more aircraft in the middle weight category of fighters that the Rafale falls into, the air chief said that he would like a much larger number of the planes under the Make in India initiative.
Global aviation giants like Dassault, Airbus, Boeing and Saab are closely watching Indian moves to select a combat aircraft for a new fighter production line. Raha’s comments that the major requirement is for middle weight category fighters would weigh heavily on the number of competitors that make the cut.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/02/will-need-larger-rafale-order-for-true.html

 

[lcafanboy]

Will Need Larger Rafale Order For True Make In India: Dassault CEO

Dassault believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India.
BANGALORE: France is in discussions to assist India with its next generation Advanced Multi-role Combat Aircraft (AMCA) as part of the offset obligations of the Rafale fighter jet deal, Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India at a `competitive level' the senior executive has said.
Answering a query by ET, Trappier said that Dassault is ready to assist India with its fighter jet programs. "We have already discussed with Indian agencies and have proposed that our capabilities be integrated. We have started the discussions as part of the offset framework," Trappier said, adding that the company is keen to partner with India for the project.
The Dassault CEO made a strong pitch for the Rafale for an upcoming Indian Navy requirement for carrier borne jets, saying that the Rafale is the only jet with dedicated air force and naval versions. "We want to continue beyond the 36 jets on order. The requirement is around 200 jets for India and a naval order as well," he said.
Dassault however believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India. Trappier said that extra orders would need to be placed by 2017-18 to come up with a larger Make in India plan that would involve shifting heavy work.
Responding to questions on why the company chose Reliance Defence to be a major offset partner, Dassault said that its main Indian partner in the past- HAL - was busy with several projects like the Light Combat Aircraft and the choice was to go with a new entrant into the defense field. "We were told that HAL was fully booked. We talked to Reliance and they were very keen to create such capabilities in India. They have a track record and the financial capability as well," Trappier said.
In December, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said that India needs much more than the 36 jets on order, without specifying the number that the air force has recommended to the government.
Saying that India requires 200-250 more aircraft in the middle weight category of fighters that the Rafale falls into, the air chief said that he would like a much larger number of the planes under the Make in India initiative.
Global aviation giants like Dassault, Airbus, Boeing and Saab are closely watching Indian moves to select a combat aircraft for a new fighter production line. Raha’s comments that the major requirement is for middle weight category fighters would weigh heavily on the number of competitors that make the cut.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/02/will-need-larger-rafale-order-for-true.html

MII Fighter deal is worth 250 Fighters and Dassault has taken lead by establishing factory through offset money it had to invest for b36 Rafale deal. Now they don't have factory cost to add to MII Rafales which means cheaper Rafales so others can't compete the cost at which Rafale s will be quoted. I had repeatedly said more than 250 Rafale s are coming and this confirms it.:bounce:

 

[Filtercoffee]

Insisting on twin engined aircraft seems more like a tantrum, when they've the opportunity to get Mk2 custom designed for their needs. LCA Mk2 aircraft will definitely be inferior to Rafale-M or F18; but with the complete armament package (Brahmos NG, Nirbhay, Astra etc.) LCA Mk2 will be as formidable and less expensive than the foreign ones!!

One thing that Indian military leaders still don't understood well is Macro-economics and Public-policy. If they were given some classes on these subjects they would understand that by procuring local armaments, their military budgets will sore enormously!! Because, it make good politics and public-policy for the politicians. If millions of citizens are employed in the defense industry then the government will be forced to keep buying more or newer equipment to keep the jobs. One of the big reasons US keeps building so many ships and planes is because shutting down ship-building yards and other manufacturing facilities results in job losses that makes bad politics!!!

If India truly wants to become an 'expenditure' based economy like most western countries, then the easiest way is to boost defense production(I think Modi understands this well) - the military will then get almost unlimited budgets (because all the money is getting reinvested, and no politician can ever say no to local job creation!!)
Perhaps, the Generals should be mandated to take some Macro-economic/Public-policy courses!!!

There was no problem in selecting a Russian carrier with an air wing before Vikrant 2. Beyond that point the fore mentioned competitors will not benefit if a MIG air wing is ulimately choosen over them. I wonder why they even try to insist on a failure for prestige. This is saddening, knowing fully well the real sophistication of the region. It seems its bitter sweet then.

 

[Prayash]

Will Need Larger Rafale Order For True Make In India: Dassault CEO

Dassault believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India.
BANGALORE: France is in discussions to assist India with its next generation Advanced Multi-role Combat Aircraft (AMCA) as part of the offset obligations of the Rafale fighter jet deal, Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India at a `competitive level' the senior executive has said.
Answering a query by ET, Trappier said that Dassault is ready to assist India with its fighter jet programs. "We have already discussed with Indian agencies and have proposed that our capabilities be integrated. We have started the discussions as part of the offset framework," Trappier said, adding that the company is keen to partner with India for the project.
The Dassault CEO made a strong pitch for the Rafale for an upcoming Indian Navy requirement for carrier borne jets, saying that the Rafale is the only jet with dedicated air force and naval versions. "We want to continue beyond the 36 jets on order. The requirement is around 200 jets for India and a naval order as well," he said.
Dassault however believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India. Trappier said that extra orders would need to be placed by 2017-18 to come up with a larger Make in India plan that would involve shifting heavy work.
Responding to questions on why the company chose Reliance Defence to be a major offset partner, Dassault said that its main Indian partner in the past- HAL - was busy with several projects like the Light Combat Aircraft and the choice was to go with a new entrant into the defense field. "We were told that HAL was fully booked. We talked to Reliance and they were very keen to create such capabilities in India. They have a track record and the financial capability as well," Trappier said.
In December, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said that India needs much more than the 36 jets on order, without specifying the number that the air force has recommended to the government.
Saying that India requires 200-250 more aircraft in the middle weight category of fighters that the Rafale falls into, the air chief said that he would like a much larger number of the planes under the Make in India initiative.
Global aviation giants like Dassault, Airbus, Boeing and Saab are closely watching Indian moves to select a combat aircraft for a new fighter production line. Raha’s comments that the major requirement is for middle weight category fighters would weigh heavily on the number of competitors that make the cut.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/02/will-need-larger-rafale-order-for-true.html

I Hope they transfer their method of reviving kaveri

 

[Bahamut]

MII Fighter deal is worth 250 Fighters and Dassault has taken lead by establishing factory through offset money it had to invest for b36 Rafale deal. Now they don't have factory cost to add to MII Rafales which means cheaper Rafales so others can't compete the cost at which Rafale s will be quoted. I had repeatedly said more than 250 Rafale s are coming and this confirms it.:bounce:

If that true then no new single engine fighter is needed.

 

[lcafanboy]

I Hope they transfer their method of reviving kaveri

Safran will be opening factory in Goa India to make M88. So expect further cooperation on jet engines.:bounce:

 

[ezsasa]

MII Fighter deal is worth 250 Fighters and Dassault has taken lead by establishing factory through offset money it had to invest for b36 Rafale deal. Now they don't have factory cost to add to MII Rafales which means cheaper Rafales so others can't compete the cost at which Rafale s will be quoted. I had repeatedly said more than 250 Rafale s are coming and this confirms it.:bounce:

Every vendor wants to sell more of his stuff, doesn't mean we will buy them.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

We should make a take it or leave it offer to Dassault. 20+ billion USD for 300-400 rafale MII and cancel FGFA and single engine aircraft deal. Focus should be on LCA MK2 and AMCA. 300-400 rafales along with 300+ Sukhois can take on any air force in the world. Focus should be on LCA Mk2 and AMCA

 

[lcafanboy]

Every vendor wants to sell more of his stuff, doesn't mean we will buy them.

But we do need more than 400 fighter planes in next 10 years. And if Rafale, Gripen and F-16 costs are same why would we by single engine obsolete F-16 and low range Gripen instead of technologically advanced omni role Rafales.

 

[Thrishul]

Insisting on twin engined aircraft seems more like a tantrum, when they've the opportunity to get Mk2 custom designed for their needs. LCA Mk2 aircraft will definitely be inferior to Rafale-M or F18; but with the complete armament package (Brahmos NG, Nirbhay, Astra etc.) LCA Mk2 will be as formidable and less expensive than the foreign ones!!

One thing that Indian military leaders still don't understood well is Macro-economics and Public-policy. If they were given some classes on these subjects they would understand that by procuring local armaments, their military budgets will sore enormously!! Because, it make good politics and public-policy for the politicians. If millions of citizens are employed in the defense industry then the government will be forced to keep buying more or newer equipment to keep the jobs. One of the big reasons US keeps building so many ships and planes is because shutting down ship-building yards and other manufacturing facilities results in job losses that makes bad politics!!!

If India truly wants to become an 'expenditure' based economy like most western countries, then the easiest way is to boost defense production(I think Modi understands this well) - the military will then get almost unlimited budgets (because all the money is getting reinvested, and no politician can ever say no to local job creation!!)

Perhaps, the Generals should be mandated to take some Macro-economic/Public-policy courses!!!

You forget that the main reason why carrier fighters are preferably twin engine, because engine failure for a single engine fighter means that there is no hope of recovery, With a twin engine aircraft you do have a chance of recovering the aircraft if it looses one engine.
Another issue with the only having the Mark-2 is that the LCA Navy has a extremely short range because it is a small light fighter. It has a operational radius of 450 km's while the F-18 has a operational radius of 600 km's and the Rafale even more.

 

[Scrutator]

You forget that the main reason why carrier fighters are preferably twin engine, because engine failure for a single engine fighter means that there is no hope of recovery, With a twin engine aircraft you do have a chance of recovering the aircraft if it looses one engine.
Another issue with the only having the Mark-2 is that the LCA Navy has a extremely short range because it is a small light fighter. It has a operational radius of 450 km's while the F-18 has a operational radius of 600 km's and the Rafale even more.

The twin-engined philosophy for carrier operations is an obsolete one. The reliability of modern turbofans is way better than what they used to be in the past. F35C, which will replace all F18s in US navy is single engined. The navy version of Gripen (which the Indian Navy is eyeing favorably) is also single engined (same engine as LCA Mk2).
LCA Mk2 will have 25% more fuel then Mk1, as such the range will be closer to that of F18s!!

Nevertheless, Rafale/F18 will have a higher weapons payload!

 

[captscooby81]

MBDA Meteor and ASRAAM Missiles in display at Aeroindia2017

 

[Bahamut]

We should make a take it or leave it offer to Dassault. 20+ billion USD for 300-400 rafale MII and cancel FGFA and single engine aircraft deal. Focus should be on LCA MK2 and AMCA. 300-400 rafales along with 300+ Sukhois can take on any air force in the world. Focus should be on LCA Mk2 and AMCA

FGFA is not going to be cancelled it will the tip of the spear, it will operate in the most risky environment. IAF capability will be doubled with this fighter

 

[Prayash]

That's BS that PSK is spreading around, the Rafale can operate from the Vikrant, the Vikramditya has its airwing. The 57 RFI is for the Vikrant's airwing.

I think you are absolutely right