Know Your 'Rafale'

[gadeshi]

Rafale is seen by some haters to be underpowered. And it have simple air intakes, without shock waves effect like in F15 or Mirage 2000. However it is widely Supercruiser.
The JSF is simply badly aerodynamically shaped. Despite 18 tons thrust....

Yes.
It has too wide Middel cross section as a result of putting STOVL and 2000lb internal requirements into one project.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[BON PLAN]

The reality is that F-16D test was an AoA flight control laws test, the reality is that F-35 after FCS was fixed, achieving many win again F-16 in dogfight with pilot actually preferred it in dogfight over F-15E and F-16
The reality is that even F-22 lose to T-38 and Rafale lose to F-4, Typhoon also lose to F-16 before
The reality is that despite the so called much superior agility of Rafale, there isn't video evidence or EM graph evidence

:blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

 

[BON PLAN]

So no evidence then?

I haven't. That doest mean that it doesn't exist.

 

[jik60]

France can say bye bye to Rafael and the follow on P75I submarines order, after this humongous Scorpion leak.
The way media is behaving now in india, I am even praying for the ongoing scorpion project.
Though I want all these to be false but if proven wrong then it cud put an unprecedented dent on Indo-French partnership.

 

[BON PLAN]

I didnt use any high level equation there , merely angle/turning time = average turn rate , because the F-35 changed direction by 180 degrees in 7 seconds , you can just take 180/7 = around 25.7 degrees/second

This funny StealthFranker used a video, in which no one can prove the bird made a 180 or 160 or 150° turn....

His evidences are like its avatar : Stealth....

 

[BON PLAN]

France can say bye bye to Rafael and the follow on P75I submarines order, after this humongous Scorpion leak.
The way media is behaving now in india, I am even praying for the ongoing scorpion project.
Though I want all these to be false but if proven wrong then it cud put an unprecedented dent on Indo-French partnership.

No direct link between DCNS and Dassault.

And you, US patriot, don't forget than between Manhattan project (whose secrets were given to russia) and F35 (China stole documents in the LM data base), a lot of things like that occured.

It's a too fresh news. Maybe organised by a disappointed competitor.... Let's spend some days....

 

[StealthFlanker]

The F14 is not an agile aircraft. I'm sure no F14 seen more than 8-9 G !!!

Oh really ?

. I immediately rolled the Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G's while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock.

http://f-14association.com/tales/my-most-tense-moment-in-the-26-years-of-flying-f-14s.html
and as a bonus here is F-4 turning 12 G
.

the Phantom jinked hard with maximum power, pulling a +12g turn. .

http://www.iiaf.net/aircraft/jetfighters/F4/f4.html
A Mig-25 turning 11.5G

One MiG-25 withstood an inadvertent 11.5 g (112.8 m/s²) pull during low-altitude dogfight training,

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mig-25_foxbat.pl
big fucking deal , as i said before , ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility .

Speak about F16, which is an agile plane. F16 is limited to 9G, by FBW. The air frame is calculated for 9G.

No, ultimate structure Glimit is not the same as FBW G limit

Rafale airframe is calculated for 11G, and its FBW set for.

Same as above , and struture Glimit is rather irrelevent when most of the time fighter are lift limited or drag limited when they they turn

You wanted a document. You had it. And you're not happy again....

No , i ask for structure Glimit , not the comment that Rafale can pull 11G in case of emergency , all aircraft can do that , it no big deal

 

[StealthFlanker]

Don't worry, I've read it some days ago.
It's not because some work was made on IR F35 trace that it not remains huge ! The F35 powerplant doens't have a fresh air surroudind the plume (like on M88 for exemple...).

what ? what fresh air are we talking about here ? is that the bypass air ? where F-135 bypass ratio is almost double of M88 ? or are we talking about nacelle bay ventilation ? where F-35 have 2 massive scope and Rafale have none ?

18 tons of thrust, used for exemple to allow F35 to exceed Mach1, that make a nice and beautifull heat point....

18 tons of thrust in what condition ? what altitude ? did you forget again that engine thrust changed with altitude and speed ? oh and just for your information , if F-135 can actually push out 18 tons of thrust at some where like 40-50K feet like you think then F-35's dynamic thrust/weight will be higher than everything else do you know why ? because in real world thrust of jet engine reduced with altitude

 

[StealthFlanker]

I just answered to your post : "Sniper-XR is like a default for F-15E configuration, it rarely fly without it, just like it doesn't fly without CFT, in fact you cant even find a picture of F-15E whether in exercise or war configuration without targeting pod". No SNIPER on this pic. End of the story. Don't try to change, saying it's another FLIR. It's not the SNIPER, YOUR AFFIRMATION WAS WRONG.

Oh really , did you read carefully what was my affirmation ?
do i need to high light it for you ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Oh really ?

http://f-14association.com/tales/my-most-tense-moment-in-the-26-years-of-flying-f-14s.html
and as a bonus here is F-4 turning 12 G
.
http://www.iiaf.net/aircraft/jetfighters/F4/f4.html
A Mig-25 turning 11.5G

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mig-25_foxbat.pl
big fucking deal , as i said before , ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility .


No, ultimate structure Glimit is not the same as FBW G limit


Same as above , and struture Glimit is rather irrelevent when most of the time fighter are lift limited or drag limited when they they turn


No , i ask for structure Glimit , not the comment that Rafale can pull 11G in case of emergency , all aircraft can do that , it no big deal

It's why when Rafale M encounter F14 in 2002, they smashed it easily !

Extract from Air Fan N° 282 :
"Just operational at 12F flotilla clash in the Rafale measures BFM ( Basic Fighter manoeuvering ) F- 14 Tomcat and F -18 Hornet from USS Stennis and Roosevelt :
" ... Against the Tomcat is a real butcher ... The Rafale is incomparably more maneuverable than the F-14 heavy and we take advantage dice commitment ..." " ... Meet the F-18 , the task is more complicated but thanks to the flight controls , the weight / thrust and low wing loading , it quickly shows its superiority ... The fights often start at 10,000 ft and 400 kts to finish at 5,000 ft and 150 kts ... The Rafale is very agile, especially at low speeds ... "

 

[StealthFlanker]

Rafale is seen by some haters to be underpowered. And it have simple air intakes, without shock waves effect like in F15 or Mirage 2000. However it is widely Supercruiser.
.

what ???? you think Rafale intake doesnt provide pressure recovery ? even a simple pivot intake will provide pressure recovery my dear , and just because you have decent dynamic thrust at high speed doesnt mean they are good at dogfight , the Mig-25 is one of aircraft with the best dynamic thrust , does that mean it good in dogfight ? no

The JSF is simply badly aerodynamically shaped. Despite 18 tons thrust....

poor kid having no argument so he have to play dumb

You explained YOUR version of the test. It's not what USAF said just after. .

oh really ? was that my version of the test ?
Funny how USAF written my version of the test in their mission log

 

[StealthFlanker]

This funny StealthFranker used a video, in which no one can prove the bird made a 180 or 160 or 150° turn....

His evidences are like its avatar : Stealth....

lol see how desperate you are , you have no understanding of aerodynamic or electromagnetic , unable to come up with any evidence , so your only option is to troll to save your face

 

[BON PLAN]

18 tons of thrust in what condition ? what altitude ? did you forget again that engine thrust changed with altitude and speed ? oh and just for your information , if F-135 can actually push out 18 tons of thrust at some where like 40-50K feet like you think then F-35's dynamic thrust/weight will be higher than everything else do you know why ? because in real world thrust of jet engine reduced with altitude

F135 : 18 tons is sea level thrust. Like the datas of all the powerplants in the world.

 

[StealthFlanker]

It's why when Rafale M encounter F14 in 2002, they smashed it easily !

Extract from Air Fan N° 282 :
"Just operational at 12F flotilla clash in the Rafale measures BFM ( Basic Fighter manoeuvering ) F- 14 Tomcat and F -18 Hornet from USS Stennis and Roosevelt :
" ... Against the Tomcat is a real butcher ... The Rafale is incomparably more maneuverable than the F-14 heavy and we take advantage dice commitment ..." " ... Meet the F-18 , the task is more complicated but thanks to the flight controls , the weight / thrust and low wing loading , it quickly shows its superiority ... The fights often start at 10,000 ft and 400 kts to finish at 5,000 ft and 150 kts ... The Rafale is very agile, especially at low speeds ... "

you cant read so good can you
let me high light my comment once again for you " ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility "

 

[BON PLAN]

Oh really ?

http://f-14association.com/tales/my-most-tense-moment-in-the-26-years-of-flying-f-14s.html
and as a bonus here is F-4 turning 12 G
.
http://www.iiaf.net/aircraft/jetfighters/F4/f4.html
A Mig-25 turning 11.5G

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mig-25_foxbat.pl
big fucking deal , as i said before , ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility .


No, ultimate structure Glimit is not the same as FBW G limit


Same as above , and struture Glimit is rather irrelevent when most of the time fighter are lift limited or drag limited when they they turn


No , i ask for structure Glimit , not the comment that Rafale can pull 11G in case of emergency , all aircraft can do that , it no big deal

Last time a F14 reach 11G, if ever, the wings had to be scratched !

 

[StealthFlanker]

F135 : 18 tons is sea level thrust. Like the datas of all the powerplants in the world.

Yes , it is static uninstalled thrust , as i have explained for 10000000 times but since you are not very capable of reading , i have to repeat it over and over again
let me quote myself again for some morons to read

Firstly, the engine thrust that you often see on internet , is ground zero air speed thrust ( aka static thrust), once you put the engine inside the aircraft there will be thrust lost due to air intake (main one of the reason why F-16 changed their intake from small mouth to big mouth) the same F100 in F-15 will have different thrust from that one inside an F-16 and so on .
once you go to higher altitude there will be thrust lost too ( and not all engine reduce thrust at the same rate either )
Without exact thrust curve of engine with specific altitude and speed , it rather hard if not impossible to compare aircraft thrust

 

[BON PLAN]

you cant read so good can you
let me high light my comment once again for you " ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility "

1) RAFALE SMASHED THE 11G' F14 in all tests (11 G ? too funny)

2) The beginning of these posts was from your side : give me a proof Rafale can reach 11G. You had it. Game, Set and match for me.

bad looser you are !

 

[BON PLAN]

Yes , it is static uninstalled thrust , as i have explained for 10000000 times but since you are not very capable of reading , i have to repeat it over and over again
let me quote myself again for some morons to read

10000000 times..... ??? with less than 70 posts.... idiot you are.

 

[BON PLAN]

what ???? you think Rafale intake doesnt provide pressure recovery ? even a simple pivot intake will provide pressure recovery my dear , and just because you have decent dynamic thrust at high speed doesnt mean they are good at dogfight , the Mig-25 is one of aircraft with the best dynamic thrust , does that mean it good in dogfight ? no

Read ALL the post. I said "not like F15 or M2000". F15 or M2000 intakes are much better for that than a F16 or Rafale ones.
Ok funny Guy ?

 

[StealthFlanker]

1) RAFALE SMASHED THE 11G' F14 in all tests (11 G ? too funny)

as i said before ultimate structure G limit mean little when compare aircraft agility
that why i talk about Mig-25 , F-14 , F-4 turning high G , do you understand now moron ?

2) The beginning of these posts was from your side : give me a proof Rafale can reach 11G. You had it. Game, Set and match for me.

bad looser you are !

How cute , you convinently ignored that fact that you cant come up with any factual video evidence to show that Rafale turn quicker than F-35, and the point about structure G limit have been explained like a billions times but as a troll you are , you pretend like you didnt understand desperate as fuck