Know Your 'Rafale'

Indianboy

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
217
Likes
109
Country flag
Question: if India sent its taxpayer money as aid to Sri lanka or any country that the LCA was a contender, would you not be pissed too if you lost? if they are indeed giving India 1 billion in aid spread over 4 years, why can't you understand why they are pissed?
A post from the link Kunal shared:

The Brits have looted money from India during the pre independence days (200 yrs...) & fed the whole of britain, sons & daughters included. Not to forget her majesty Queen Victoria. The poor farmers of India were forced to pay taxes while the Brits enjoyed their wine parties wearing colourful gowns from money looted from India. Hence the whole concept of british aid to India is such a farce!

Read more: France swoops to rob UK of £13bn Indian jet contract | Mail Online
 

SpArK

SORCERER
New Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
2,093
Likes
1,112
Question: if India sent its taxpayer money as aid to Sri lanka or any country that the LCA was a contender, would you not be pissed too if you lost? if they are indeed giving India 1 billion in aid spread over 4 years, why can't you understand why they are pissed?

They only send 1 billion as aid.. Send another 10 billion.. we buy their jets..
:troll:
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
I see you biatch about Sri lanka getting close to the Chinese when India is giving them so much of aid dollars.
You see me biaching about srilanka ? :wave:
And i was sidestepped by afgans coz India give them billion plus Aid ? :rolleyes:



You don't know about my posts do you ?

Anyways nice attempt to derail the thread this time, Which was on War on terror and Popular Srilanka topic on MMRCA winner thread..
 
Last edited:

Ray

The Chairman
New Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,841
Fighter punch stuns Britain
- Cameron calls IAF move 'disappointing', keeps hope alive


London/New Delhi, Feb. 1: Rarely before have India's shopping preferences stirred such hand-wringing in Britain.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron today expressed "disappointment" at the possibility of losing the deal from the Indian Air Force which has zeroed in on the French Rafale for placing the world's biggest order for fighter planes.

Cameron, who had spared no effort to lobby hard for the job-generating order in the middle of a downturn, appeared to be keeping his hopes alive as the French deal has not yet been inked.

"Of course, I will do everything I can — as I have already — to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon, because I think it is such a good aircraft"¦. They have not yet awarded the contract," Cameron told MPs today. Britain's BAE has a 33 per cent stake in the four-nation consortium building the Eurofighter Typhoon.

During Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons, Cameron added that the Typhoon was a "superb aircraft, far better than Rafale".

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected in London "within weeks". So, the two Prime Ministers will have a great deal to discuss — there is the feeling in London that the UK is putting more into its relationship with India than the other way round. British pride — or at least British tabloid pride — is hurt. UK's Mail Online noted: "Well that's gratitude! We give India a £1bn in aid, THEY snub the UK and give France a £13bn jet contract."

The IAF decision is a personal embarrassment for Cameron, who made growing trade with India a key foreign policy issue. He chose India for his first prominent foreign tour as Prime Minister in July 2010, taking six cabinet ministers and 39 business leaders, including BAE representatives.

Although Cameron said that "we do not expect any job losses stemming from this decision", British ministers had said the programme could help over 200 local companies in the supply chain while supporting up to 5,000 jobs.

One silver-lining is that EADS, the Eurofighter consortium, holds over 46 per cent stake in Rafale-maker Dassault Aviation. If Dassault does well, the consortium also gets to share the profit pie.

The French bid was cheaper but analysts said political backing had been the key to victory. French President Nicolas Sarkozy described the decision as a vote of confidence in "the entire French economy", just 48 hours after he declared that Britain had no manufacturing sector to speak of.

Barry Gardiner, Labour MP and chairperson of Labour Friends of India, used language less temperate than Cameron's. "I have today called for major reforms to UK Trade and Investment (UKTI), after the UK-based BAE Systems lost the contract," he said. "The loss of the Eurofighter contracts is another major blow to British industry, and comes at the worst possible time."

"Today I have called for radical reform of the Indian high commission's role in promoting UK-India trade"¦. India House has now been without a high commissioner for seven months, something that would be inconceivable in Beijing or Washington. This demonstrates that the ministry for external affairs in Delhi no longer sees the UK as strategically vital to India's interests," said Gardiner.

J. Bhagwati, India's ambassador in Brussels, has been appointed high commissioner to the UK and is expected to take up the new job this month.

"Suffice it to say that the views and perspectives of the high commission are rather different from those expressed by Mr. Gardiner," responded a high commission spokesperson.

Reports from the other Typhoon consortium members — Italy, Spain and Germany — suggested they have not given up. Germany's Spiegel Online said the "deal could ultimately collapse — (for) in the past, all other talks to sell Dassault's Rafale aircraft abroad have failed."

If the scramble turns dirty, it won't be long before mutterings of bribes and honey traps surface.


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120202/jsp/frontpage/story_15082222.jsp
 

Ray

The Chairman
New Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,841
Fighter punch stuns Britain
- Cameron calls IAF move 'disappointing', keeps hope alive


London/New Delhi, Feb. 1: Rarely before have India's shopping preferences stirred such hand-wringing in Britain.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron today expressed "disappointment" at the possibility of losing the deal from the Indian Air Force which has zeroed in on the French Rafale for placing the world's biggest order for fighter planes.

Cameron, who had spared no effort to lobby hard for the job-generating order in the middle of a downturn, appeared to be keeping his hopes alive as the French deal has not yet been inked.

"Of course, I will do everything I can — as I have already — to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon, because I think it is such a good aircraft"¦. They have not yet awarded the contract," Cameron told MPs today. Britain's BAE has a 33 per cent stake in the four-nation consortium building the Eurofighter Typhoon.

During Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons, Cameron added that the Typhoon was a "superb aircraft, far better than Rafale".

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected in London "within weeks". So, the two Prime Ministers will have a great deal to discuss — there is the feeling in London that the UK is putting more into its relationship with India than the other way round. British pride — or at least British tabloid pride — is hurt. UK's Mail Online noted: "Well that's gratitude! We give India a £1bn in aid, THEY snub the UK and give France a £13bn jet contract."

The IAF decision is a personal embarrassment for Cameron, who made growing trade with India a key foreign policy issue. He chose India for his first prominent foreign tour as Prime Minister in July 2010, taking six cabinet ministers and 39 business leaders, including BAE representatives.

Although Cameron said that "we do not expect any job losses stemming from this decision", British ministers had said the programme could help over 200 local companies in the supply chain while supporting up to 5,000 jobs.

One silver-lining is that EADS, the Eurofighter consortium, holds over 46 per cent stake in Rafale-maker Dassault Aviation. If Dassault does well, the consortium also gets to share the profit pie.

The French bid was cheaper but analysts said political backing had been the key to victory. French President Nicolas Sarkozy described the decision as a vote of confidence in "the entire French economy", just 48 hours after he declared that Britain had no manufacturing sector to speak of.

Barry Gardiner, Labour MP and chairperson of Labour Friends of India, used language less temperate than Cameron's. "I have today called for major reforms to UK Trade and Investment (UKTI), after the UK-based BAE Systems lost the contract," he said. "The loss of the Eurofighter contracts is another major blow to British industry, and comes at the worst possible time."

"Today I have called for radical reform of the Indian high commission's role in promoting UK-India trade"¦. India House has now been without a high commissioner for seven months, something that would be inconceivable in Beijing or Washington. This demonstrates that the ministry for external affairs in Delhi no longer sees the UK as strategically vital to India's interests," said Gardiner.

J. Bhagwati, India's ambassador in Brussels, has been appointed high commissioner to the UK and is expected to take up the new job this month.

"Suffice it to say that the views and perspectives of the high commission are rather different from those expressed by Mr. Gardiner," responded a high commission spokesperson.

Reports from the other Typhoon consortium members — Italy, Spain and Germany — suggested they have not given up. Germany's Spiegel Online said the "deal could ultimately collapse — (for) in the past, all other talks to sell Dassault's Rafale aircraft abroad have failed."

If the scramble turns dirty, it won't be long before mutterings of bribes and honey traps surface.


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120202/jsp/frontpage/story_15082222.jsp
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,309
We should give credit to UPA for actually bringing this deal close to conclusion
 

Ray

The Chairman
New Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,841
It appears that Britain is in a total tizzy that they have lost out on the contract.

This gratefulness issue it totally tripe.

Indeed, why should we have to be grateful to a nation that has sided with Pakistan in most issues, though Cameron, has been more towards India in his approach. David Milliband, the Labour Foreign Secretary was practically an agent of Pakistan.

As far as the 1 million pound aid to India, it is basically for British NGOs operating in India with a huge British staff! Half the money goes back to the UK. So, that is no great shakes also!
 

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189
Jay, you are arguing unnecessarily, there is no relation between aid and military deals. If people are trying to find a relation between the two, they are more then welcome to cancel all the aids.

If I bring the logic that we have already sent lot of aid to UK, as we saved the Corus and JLR from bankrutcy, then what will be the reaction?
Govt send aid vs. private firms , those example you gave are not " taxpayer" funded. you are comparing a private investment to a public funded aid.

There is a correlation between aid and expected back scratching. Every country expects it, if not aid would be a blind lottery i.e. why chose to aid one country over another if you don't see a benefit in it.
 
Last edited:

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189
A post from the link Kunal shared:

The Brits have looted money from India during the pre independence days (200 yrs...) & fed the whole of britain, sons & daughters included. Not to forget her majesty Queen Victoria. The poor farmers of India were forced to pay taxes while the Brits enjoyed their wine parties wearing colourful gowns from money looted from India. Hence the whole concept of british aid to India is such a farce!

Read more: France swoops to rob UK of £13bn Indian jet contract | Mail Online
If historical hatred is the justification, then why deal with the middle east that is full of those moguls ( heritage) that raped andl plundered and destroyed your country far worse than , and for more centuries than the British?
 

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189
It appears that Britain is in a total tizzy that they have lost out on the contract.

This gratefulness issue it totally tripe.

Indeed, why should we have to be grateful to a nation that has sided with Pakistan in most issues, though Cameron, has been more towards India in his approach. David Milliband, the Labour Foreign Secretary was practically an agent of Pakistan.

As far as the 1 million pound aid to India, it is basically for British NGOs operating in India with a huge British staff! Half the money goes back to the UK. So, that is no great shakes also!
They are claiming 1 billion over 4 years not 1 million. I'd doubt anyone woulda have a fit over a meger 1 million
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,309
Govt send aid vs. private firms , those example you gave are not " taxpayer" funded. you are comparing a private investment to a public funded aid.

There is a correlation between aid and expected back scratching. Every country expects it, if not aid would be a blind lottery i.e. why chose to aid one country over another if you don't see a benefit in it.
With your logic, you send aid to get business benefits? Then it is not aid at all, it is bribe.
 

Indianboy

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
217
Likes
109
Country flag
It appears that Britain is in a total tizzy that they have lost out on the contract.

This gratefulness issue it totally tripe.

Indeed, why should we have to be grateful to a nation that has sided with Pakistan in most issues, though Cameron, has been more towards India in his approach. David Milliband, the Labour Foreign Secretary was practically an agent of Pakistan.

As far as the 1 million pound aid to India, it is basically for British NGOs operating in India with a huge British staff! Half the money goes back to the UK. So, that is no great shakes also!
This isn't the parameter for buying 200 fighter jets. May be Pakistan can but India won't..It is illogical. Isn't it?

I can try but I just can't make a person buy my Rs 100 stuff just because I helped him with a 10 rupees. India (IAF) may buy EFT or F35 in future if it suits us. Disappointment is inevitable but they should and must respect India's decision.

I in my one of the post had said that they do not see the Rising Sun (India) but Dark blackhole Pakistan..

The conclusion is that "With India you prosper (France, Rafale) and with Pakistan you disappear (EFT, consortium). :namaste:
 

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189

Haha, did you get the subtle bullshzit from sarkorzy? He is making it a political spin with that statement . India did not chose the French because of the confidence it had in their administration or economy as he claims. It was price point after they found both aircrafts upto their requirement standard.
 

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189
With your logic, you send aid to get business benefits? Then it is not aid at all, it is bribe.
Welcome to the real world. Unless there is some some huge catastrophe, aid is sent to countries that play a vital interest in one countries interest. Can you name whom India sends aid to? Afghan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Nepal , Bangladesh :) oh tajikistan ...
 

Indianboy

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
217
Likes
109
Country flag
If historical hatred is the justification, then why deal with the middle east that is full of those moguls ( heritage) that raped andl plundered and destroyed your country far worse than , and for more centuries than the British?
It wasn't about historical hatred. I don't hate UK or Europe. The bottom line was "Hence the whole concept of british aid to India is such a farce!"

The aid can't be the only reason for buying fighter jets.
 

pankaj nema

New Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
10,308
Likes
38,743
Country flag
The technical things that have worked in favour of Rafale are
RBE 2 AESA , SPECTRA EW suite and the fact that IAF is looking for an Advanced and fully
developed Air to Ground Platform

The Air to AIr fighters like SU 30 mki , Mig 29 SMT and PAK FA in future have taken care of our
A2A needs
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,309
Welcome to the real world. Unless there is some some huge catastrophe, aid is sent to countries that play a vital interest in one countries interest. Can you name whom India sends aid to? Afghan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Nepal , Bangladesh :) oh tajikistan ...
What is your point? If you are trying to say that the so called bribe (aid) is for getting a military deal, then I will say British were naive to say at least. And with the sort of comments we are seeing, they are making a clown of them selves.
 

JayATL

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
189
We should give credit to UPA for actually bringing this deal close to conclusion
You should give congress party props if that who is UPA now for a Shizt lot. Mms has brought India to a be a powerhouse. I can go on and on how he has rocked it for India. Take a simple thing but not too simple thing as the nuke deal. Not one damn country, including Russia, who you are about to take over on GDP, helped you on getting the civilian nuclear assistance, till MMS got the US deal. That itself you guys need to know is the mother of all foreign policy coup in the last 40 plus years
 

Articles

Top